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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Nov 28, 2016 13:15:53 GMT -5
We need massive improvement during December because right now, Xavier, Nova, Creighton & Butler are head and shoulders above us. I would even argue that Seton Hall is too. Providence and Marquette are off to solid starts and are also probably above us right now. That leaves us, St. John's & Depaul and likely another losing season unless things really change. PG play is horrendous right now and we might need to move Peak there. I think rebounding will improve with Agau, Hayes & Derrickson now available. That leaves TO as the number one issue for this team with guarding PG's being number 2. I agree with most of your post except moving Peak to PG. We simply cannot have him defending opposing PGs because he will foul at a rate that will keep him off the floor. We need him on the floor. JT3 needs to figure out how he can mask his PGs' deficiencies because none of the 3 options at that position can be relied on to out-perform their competition every game. Have to play a 2-3 or 2-1-2 matchup zone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 13:38:39 GMT -5
Four Big East teams are ranked in this week's AP Poll. Villanova, Xavier, Creighton and Butler.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 28, 2016 13:57:09 GMT -5
Butler is the type of team I hope we can become. In JTIII early years we always got better as the season progressed. That hasn't been the case the last few years. Butler gets more out of the talent they get then just about any program. They are off to a really strong start.
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bostonfan
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Post by bostonfan on Nov 28, 2016 14:22:14 GMT -5
I agree with most of your post except moving Peak to PG. We simply cannot have him defending opposing PGs because he will foul at a rate that will keep him off the floor. We need him on the floor. JT3 needs to figure out how he can mask his PGs' deficiencies because none of the 3 options at that position can be relied on to out-perform their competition every game. Have to play a 2-3 or 2-1-2 matchup zone. Playing a zone for at least parts of games is something they need to start doing. Staying in front of quick point guards is going to be a problem all year and playing a zone should help minimize that to some degree. Rebounding can be an issue when playing zone, but if you get everyone to commit to defensive rebounding while in the zone, and give up some of the fast break opportunities, they should be OK. Continuing to play man to man when it is clearly not effective is not good coaching. It gets the bigs in foul trouble and opens up way too many open three point shots for the opposition when the other defenders leave their players to help.
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 28, 2016 14:59:39 GMT -5
[/quote]So the previous years before these last 2 was? ? We had great defensive teams. Even Austin Freeman played D. Had the same coach. [/quote] The new rule changes and emphasis on old ones has hurt Georgetown as much as anyone. I don't think anyone realized how physical we played defensively until afterward. He has not adjusted. Our guards stay in front of nobody. Our bigs have zero clue on how to defend a ball screen. The team fails at helping, either over-helping or not helping at all. The game has changed. It is faster and there is far less station to station offensive basketball even since 2012 or 2013 - you have to stop the ball, you have to stop the ball in transition - not defend the post or even defend off-ball screening as much as in the past. We're failing miserably.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2016 15:03:52 GMT -5
Four Big East teams are ranked in this week's AP Poll. Villanova, Xavier, Creighton and Butler. The good news is the new Big East is becoming an absolute powerhouse in college basketball, which means the Georgetown job will be very attractive when it finally opens up. Hopefully that is soon. But the chance to revitalize a once dominant now dormant national brand in a premier basketball conference will likely attract a lot of great resumes.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 28, 2016 15:16:33 GMT -5
Four Big East teams are ranked in this week's AP Poll. Villanova, Xavier, Creighton and Butler. The good news is the new Big East is becoming an absolute powerhouse in college basketball, which means the Georgetown job will be very attractive when it finally opens up. Hopefully that is soon. But the chance to revitalize a once dominant now dormant national brand in a premier basketball conference will likely attract a lot of great resumes. In 2004, the Big East enjoyed back to back national championships with Syracuse and UConn. And who were the candidates as reported? John Thompson III, Princeton. Since 2004: One Final Four, eight NCAA, three NIT. (267-137) Joe Scott, Air Force. Since 2004: Zero NCAA, one NIT. Now at Denver (132-240) Willis Wilson, Rice: Since 2004: No NCAA, no NIT. Now at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (75-85)
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bkhoya
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Post by bkhoya on Nov 28, 2016 15:23:41 GMT -5
As long as there is the specter of Big John Thompson Jr. hanging over the program, what nationally respected coach would seriously look at Georgetown knowing he'd be around to possibly meddle? Anyone respected would want complete autonomy and that would mean the only way would be if Thompson Jr came out and publicly supported the new coach and would promise to back him. So who on here could imagine that happening? I know I couldn't, particularly because it would mean that his own son was fired from the university. The university has done too much to empower the Thompson brand.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 28, 2016 15:27:21 GMT -5
The good news is the new Big East is becoming an absolute powerhouse in college basketball, which means the Georgetown job will be very attractive when it finally opens up. Hopefully that is soon. But the chance to revitalize a once dominant now dormant national brand in a premier basketball conference will likely attract a lot of great resumes. In 2004, the Big East enjoyed back to back national championships with Syracuse and UConn. And who were the candidates as reported? John Thompson III, Princeton. Since 2004: One Final Four, eight NCAA, three NIT. (267-137) Joe Scott, Air Force. Since 2004: Zero NCAA, one NIT. Now at Denver (132-240) Willis Wilson, Rice: Since 2004: No NCAA, no NIT. Now at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (75-85) And don't forget about Johnny Dawkins, who ended up taking the Stanford job, where he made one NCAA Tournament in 8 seasons. In the PAC 12, he finished: 9th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, 3rd, 5th, and 9th. People way over-estimate the appeal of the Georgetown job.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2016 15:59:30 GMT -5
The good news is the new Big East is becoming an absolute powerhouse in college basketball, which means the Georgetown job will be very attractive when it finally opens up. Hopefully that is soon. But the chance to revitalize a once dominant now dormant national brand in a premier basketball conference will likely attract a lot of great resumes. In 2004, the Big East enjoyed back to back national championships with Syracuse and UConn. And who were the candidates as reported? John Thompson III, Princeton. Since 2004: One Final Four, eight NCAA, three NIT. (267-137) Joe Scott, Air Force. Since 2004: Zero NCAA, one NIT. Now at Denver (132-240) Willis Wilson, Rice: Since 2004: No NCAA, no NIT. Now at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (75-85) I don't buy this as a comparison. Even in 2004, the landscape was starting to look murky for this conference and college sports in general. And at that point, the brand had really disappeared. No one talked about Georgetown. For some reason, even after several years of losing (sometimes in humiliating fashion) on national stages, at the moment there is still brand equity; there is a rising powerhouse of a conference; and there is a major sports network that has a ton of money riding on the success of that conference. There is a brand new training facility (though it may be awkwardly named at that point). There is a chance to rebuild a national program. And the school has proven that they will pay up for a coach. It's a huge chance for the right, ambitious person. This is not disputable. No one is saying a blueblood coach would come running over, but the list of candidates would be mighty impressive. You and 2003 can wallow in all that the Georgetown job doesn't have to offer, but that list is dwindling. It will be a fantastic opportunity when it opens up. And there's no reason the head coach position has to be under the reign of Thompson any longer.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2016 16:00:19 GMT -5
As long as there is the specter of Big John Thompson Jr. hanging over the program, what nationally respected coach would seriously look at Georgetown knowing he'd be around to possibly meddle? Anyone respected would want complete autonomy and that would mean the only way would be if Thompson Jr came out and publicly supported the new coach and would promise to back him. So who on here could imagine that happening? I know I couldn't, particularly because it would mean that his own son was fired from the university. The university has done too much to empower the Thompson brand. He'd have to be out of the picture. Isn't he off the GU books at some point soon? Also, hate to be the guy who says it, but the old man doesn't look all that well.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 28, 2016 16:31:12 GMT -5
As long as there is the specter of Big John Thompson Jr. hanging over the program, what nationally respected coach would seriously look at Georgetown knowing he'd be around to possibly meddle? Anyone respected would want complete autonomy and that would mean the only way would be if Thompson Jr came out and publicly supported the new coach and would promise to back him. So who on here could imagine that happening? I know I couldn't, particularly because it would mean that his own son was fired from the university. The university has done too much to empower the Thompson brand. He'd have to be out of the picture. Isn't he off the GU books at some point soon? Also, hate to be the guy who says it, but the old man doesn't look all that well.
Don't go here Guru or anyone else.. It's not the right thing to banter about..
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 28, 2016 16:40:35 GMT -5
He'd have to be out of the picture. Isn't he off the GU books at some point soon? Also, hate to be the guy who says it, but the old man doesn't look all that well.
Don't go here Guru or anyone else.. It's not the right thing to banter about.. It is what it is. I will be as sad as anybody. The guy was one of my childhood idols. Certainly hoping there's a more graceful way to end the Thompson era. The point is the stranglehold can not possibly last forever.
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Post by practice on Nov 28, 2016 17:38:54 GMT -5
Does anyone know JT3's contract situation? In 2007, he signed a 6 year extension. In 2015, the university reported that paid him $2.8 million (10th highest salary among DI basketball coaches). However, I can't find any mention of a long term contract extension. Is he on a year-to-year deal with some sort of automatic raise? Buying out multiple years at ~$3M/year is not something I see GU doing any time soon.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 28, 2016 17:39:24 GMT -5
The good news is the new Big East is becoming an absolute powerhouse in college basketball, which means the Georgetown job will be very attractive when it finally opens up. Hopefully that is soon. But the chance to revitalize a once dominant now dormant national brand in a premier basketball conference will likely attract a lot of great resumes. In 2004, the Big East enjoyed back to back national championships with Syracuse and UConn. And who were the candidates as reported? John Thompson III, Princeton. Since 2004: One Final Four, eight NCAA, three NIT. (267-137) Joe Scott, Air Force. Since 2004: Zero NCAA, one NIT. Now at Denver (132-240) Willis Wilson, Rice: Since 2004: No NCAA, no NIT. Now at Texas A&M-Corpus Christi (75-85) The other two were formalities, if anything. Now, the fact that GU is willing to pay the big bucks if you're successful, plus all of the other benefits of the position, will make GU very attractive to great candidates. 2003, stop undervaluing the job's appeal. The numbers, the exposure, the school, the talent in the area, and the brand don't help your case.
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Nov 28, 2016 18:35:34 GMT -5
I think Elon is 5-0 that will be a tough game.all of them will be tough if we don't start rebounding better.we need derrickson to keep getting more mins to.we need his scoring and rebounding.i think every game will be tough as long as jt3 is coaching. I am sorry but that is how it is Hoyas still can't guard anyone on defense.and don't rebound good enough to win consistently.the big east is going to kill the press.it needs worked on. Go Hoyas keep fighting,and try to get better.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 28, 2016 20:37:51 GMT -5
I don't buy this as a comparison. Even in 2004, the landscape was starting to look murky for this conference and college sports in general. And at that point, the brand had really disappeared. No one talked about Georgetown. For some reason, even after several years of losing (sometimes in humiliating fashion) on national stages, at the moment there is still brand equity; there is a rising powerhouse of a conference; and there is a major sports network that has a ton of money riding on the success of that conference. There is a brand new training facility (though it may be awkwardly named at that point). There is a chance to rebuild a national program. And the school has proven that they will pay up for a coach. It's a huge chance for the right, ambitious person. This is not disputable. No one is saying a blueblood coach would come running over, but the list of candidates would be mighty impressive. You and 2003 can wallow in all that the Georgetown job doesn't have to offer, but that list is dwindling. It will be a fantastic opportunity when it opens up. And there's no reason the head coach position has to be under the reign of Thompson any longer. I do not think the 2004 candidates are reflective of who we would attract today. I do think the program is better positioned now than then, and the job is more attractive as a result. Of course, that almost entirely has to do with JT3 and the success he had early on - even if it was a long time ago. If Esherick or someone else was the coach the last ten years, it's highly unlikely that the practice facility would exist, also, which helps to make the job more attractive. That said, just as people have a tendency to over value our players (remember the guy who said Campbell was NBA material or that DSR would definitely be in the NBA), I do think they overestimate the attractiveness of the job.
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OldHoyafan
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Post by OldHoyafan on Nov 28, 2016 20:39:21 GMT -5
I thing big john needs to help jt3 out and jar his memory back.then go to locker room and show team some film on the teams he coached,on how to hustle and go get a rebound, I know you are being a little lighthearted in your comment, but there is a lot of truth that rings in the idea of bringing back old Hoyas to teach the new kids the Georgetown Way. JT2 may still know how to do it mentally, but his aging body could not keep up with the rigors of on court tutelage that would be needed to get the job done. Seriously, there are three names that come to mind (1) Jerome Williams to work with small forwards on defense, rebounding and pressing,(2) Othelo Harrington to work with big forwards on the same things and (3) Don Reid to work the centers on the same things plus court positioning on defense and offense. I know the Big O has been here already but there is no harm in bringing him back. These guys do not have to be full time employees who sit on the bench during the game, but would be special assistant to the head coach like Ms Felon was for Big John to concentrate on specific areas of development. All three were overachievers because of size or slowness afoot but through hard work an determination became so adapt at what they did that they carved out a good NBA career. I know, Big O was the number one player coming out of high school, but really was 6'8" power forward who played an entire career at center amongst some of the giants of the game. III has put his ego in his back pocket and changed the style of the team. Now we need him to do the sam with the idea of letting these Hoya legends teach his young guys how it is done. There is no shame admitting that some of your dad's are better suited for the crew he has assembled. After all his initial credo was to make the world remember who Georgetown was. hiya pride was missing in the three games in Maui. Let's bring it back III, ask for the help you need. A winning team with the attributes mentioned above will not be remembered as the Jerome Williams team, or the Othelo Harrington, or the Don Reid team ,but the JTIII team who finally brought the Hoyas all the way back and will lay the ground work for future Hoyas to emulate.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 28, 2016 22:28:01 GMT -5
In the same way many attack the people who point out the coaches short comings which is becoming tiresome and borderline ridiculous at this point. Some of these same people want to disparage this program as something good coaches wouldn't want. I can't disagree more but maybe that's because I and some others here believe in this program more than others and won't accept what we are being fed. I think there are plenty of coaching who know this would be a destination at the potential for $3+ million per year where you don't have to be Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, etc. in terms of results. You merely need to be competitive in a decent basketball conference, make the tournament most or all years, get a sweet 16 every few and an occasional Final 4 wouldn't hurt but no ones going to fire you over not making it. I think that would be a lot more attractive than taking a middle of the road ACC, B10, P12 type program where it will be a lot harder to compete.
Someone like Jay Wright could have bolted many times for the NBA or some of those "big time" college jobs but he realizes what he has there and has settled in and will now have a nice run with the goodwill and brand he's built. It's time we reset this and try to catch up as we've lost major ground but there's plenty to sell about this job so stop with the fear mongering about how coaches won't want this job and who we could've hired in 2004 that didn't work out somewhere else. If you are paralyzed by fear, set yourself free.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 29, 2016 0:30:45 GMT -5
In the same way many attack the people who point out the coaches short comings which is becoming tiresome and borderline ridiculous at this point. Some of these same people want to disparage this program as something good coaches wouldn't want. I can't disagree more but maybe that's because I and some others here believe in this program more than others and won't accept what we are being fed. I think there are plenty of coaching who know this would be a destination at the potential for $3+ million per year where you don't have to be Kansas, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, etc. in terms of results. You merely need to be competitive in a decent basketball conference, make the tournament most or all years, get a sweet 16 every few and an occasional Final 4 wouldn't hurt but no ones going to fire you over not making it. I think that would be a lot more attractive than taking a middle of the road ACC, B10, P12 type program where it will be a lot harder to compete. Someone like Jay Wright could have bolted many times for the NBA or some of those "big time" college jobs but he realizes what he has there and has settled in and will now have a nice run with the goodwill and brand he's built. It's time we reset this and try to catch up as we've lost major ground but there's plenty to sell about this job so stop with the fear mongering about how coaches won't want this job and who we could've hired in 2004 that didn't work out somewhere else. If you are paralyzed by fear, set yourself free. You are setting up a straw man. Some of us who support the current staff more than you also do it because we care about the program and believe in it. In my opinion, it would be hard to find a coach that would be better than JT3 in the long-term. Now, if JT3 continues to struggle and have sub-.500 seasons, then you have a different problem. And maybe we can talk about that at the end of the season, but right now, all we know is that two years ago we were a 4 seed and last year we stunk. The funny thing is that JT3 basically meets your standard, above, except that he hasn't made the Sweet 16 every few years. So here's my question. Let's say you hired someone new. At what point do you fire that new person? If they don't make a Sweet 16 for, let's say 4 years? 5? Where do you draw the line? The reality is that it's not clear-cut. It's tougher to find a coach who can get to the NCAA tournament every year, period, nevermind a Sweet 16. That's why I think it's important to be careful to dismiss a coach when he's had a fair amount of success. But, I know I won't convince you because you think the local CYO coach would be better than JT3.
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