prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 27, 2016 19:11:33 GMT -5
People act like he forgot how to coach from the comments. I say it is a team attitude. Other teams were successful. This team does not compete. That is the problem maybe you need a new voice but it wont be fixed just by "getting rid of Jt3" this is a player problem. Disagree. When it's year after year, it is not a player problem.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Nov 27, 2016 20:05:00 GMT -5
I stopped and scrubbed my brain clean after I read there was no talent on this team.... It is not a question of NO talent -- the issue is lower level talent. It is way down from the Jeff/Roy/PE Jr. days, The Austin/Greg/Chris days and the Sims/Hollis/Otto days. Name one player that will make an NBA squad -- perhaps Peak. That is likely it. The coaching staff is not blameless either as it is responsible for recruiting and player development-- but the latter is mainly up to the player. There's plenty of talent on this team. Ike was considered the #34 prospect out of h.s. Peak was around there too. Govan and Derrickson were pretty high for their class. Pryor is outstanding at what he does. Did you check the NBA Draft expert predictions? Before the start of the season, Ike and Govan were considered, not Peak. Bradley is the dark horse and could get consideration because of his height, weight, NBA-ready hook and attitude. No, the tools are there to have a great team, but the players that JT3 has recruited need to be motivated, taught, and developed. When your team comes out flat or goes flat during a game, has scoring droughts, is turning the ball over way too much, etc., the coach as motivator is key.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2016 21:34:07 GMT -5
It is not a question of NO talent -- the issue is lower level talent. It is way down from the Jeff/Roy/PE Jr. days, The Austin/Greg/Chris days and the Sims/Hollis/Otto days. Name one player that will make an NBA squad -- perhaps Peak. That is likely it. The coaching staff is not blameless either as it is responsible for recruiting and player development-- but the latter is mainly up to the player. There's plenty of talent on this team. Ike was considered the #34 prospect out of h.s. Peak was around there too. Govan and Derrickson were pretty high for their class. Pryor is outstanding at what he does. Did you check the NBA Draft expert predictions? Before the start of the season, Ike and Govan were considered, not Peak. Bradley is the dark horse and could get consideration because of his height, weight, NBA-ready hook and attitude. No, the tools are there to have a great team, but the players that JT3 has recruited need to be motivated, taught, and developed. When your team comes out flat or goes flat during a game, has scoring droughts, is turning the ball over way too much, etc., the coach as motivator is key. HS rankings are not a good metric for measuring player ability at the college level outside of, maybe, the top 10 players in each class. Wasn't Nate Lubick highly ranked? Was the ranking wrong or did he just not improve as much as he should have? Maybe a bit of both but, certainly, more of the former. It's difficult to project how most guys will do at the next level. BTW, the same is true in going from college to the NBA which is part of the reason why top 1-5 draft picks are so important. Even at the end of last season, if you'd asked people that follow Georgetown basketball which of the three of LJ, Isaac, or Jessie was the best player, most would likely say LJ without hesitation because it's not close. Will he have the most success or the best shot at the next level? Tough call. Edit: I don't mean to say that you don't make some decent points. However, motivation is a tough one. Some guys just don't have the "want to" regardless of how you try to get to them. And some guys flat-out don't listen. Some guys think they can get by on talent because, in many cases, they always have. I fear that Isaac is turning into DaJuan light. Hopefully he realizes that, ultimately, it's on him to not have that happen. Considering how he's performed so far this year (not statistically speaking, just in watching), I'm fine with him being nailed to the bench. He's shown no willingness to play hard. He makes freshman mistakes consistently. And, if that doesn't stop, he should sit. Similarly with Tre, when he chucked up that heat check three that we all knew was coming, do you really think he hasn't been told explicitly not to do that? He's not Rodney Pryor. Now he had seen diminished minutes so, maybe, it's instinctual to take that shot in hopes of hitting it to impress his coaches. Somehow, he still hasn't realized that, make it or not, it's a really stupid shot to take, especially 4 feet behind the line without moving the ball at all. That's not a coaching problem. It's a stupid decision by a player that has made the same stupid decision on many occasions. Enough occasions that there's zero chance that he hasn't been reprimanded for it. And yet, he still took the shot. These are young men. Young but men nonetheless. In Isaac's case, maybe he has more physical limitations than we thought but that's fine. Give what you have and hit the gym. That sort of thing takes longer, harder work. Telling a player not to take stupid heat check threes should take one time to fix. Two if the player is amped up and engaged in the game and loses his head and is immediately cognizant of the poor decision. Tre keeps doing it. Is that a coaching issue? Where's the line between giving a guy another chance and having him sit? There's the gray area of coaching, I guess.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2016 22:53:02 GMT -5
People act like he forgot how to coach from the comments. I say it is a team attitude. Other teams were successful. This team does not compete. That is the problem maybe you need a new voice but it wont be fixed just by "getting rid of Jt3" this is a player problem. Disagree. When it's year after year, it is not a player problem. year after year?? Its been with these players. 2 years ago did we not have a 4 seed?
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2016 22:56:29 GMT -5
I have gotten beyond being angry at the baseless attacks on the coaching staff and now am at the point where I actually find humor in the attempts to peg the problems on coaching. this where I am. People act like we were not a great defensive team for 9 years before these last 2. I mean Austin Freeman played better D than most of this team. So miss me with the coaching to play defense. Defense is a mindset maybe these guysdont have it. You cant coach a player that does not want to be coached.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2016 22:58:10 GMT -5
Please stop saying there isn't talent or that it's a player issue. It's not a great roster but it sure as hell isn't this bad. How about player development? Being properly taught how to play defense? Having a cultural that demands effort? Why do our players never appear in that great of shape? This is not personnel. This is culture/teaching/development and that lands at the feet one man. So the previous years before these last 2 was? ? We had great defensive teams. Even Austin Freeman played D. Had the same coach.
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 27, 2016 23:41:03 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree more as far as coaching that the playing isn't a factor. When someone isn't doing the fundamentals that's when the coach needs to sit him until he does them. And when he puts him back in a game and the same behavior is exhibited he immediately sits again. It's one thing to ask a player to go up against something they can't handle or perform but another to continue to reward them with playing time when they clearly aren't doing the basic things they are quite capable of doing. That's on a coach unless he's saying that's the best this roster has and can do which is a far greater problem because we've seen enough of the current version of Ike. these are people not dogs. It is not as simple as you make it. when you get outrebounded by 30 it is not just Ike. thats a teamwide thing. Do you suggest benching the whole team??? This is a team problem not a coach problem. Maybe they do need a new voice but I doubt if you put someone in tomorrow you would see dramatic change in results. this team doesnt have it in them right now on how hard you have to play to win at this level. Also you have certain players because of how things are going taking it upon themselves to do more when what more they should be doing are the hustle plays not taking on 3 guys trying to score. Everything is disconnected, No talking on D and no truning and putting a body on someone. Everyone turns and watches.Stretches of both the Oklahoma St game and the Wisky game the initial D was good especially when the bench was in front of coach. hence why we were down by 3 at half. They aren't dogs but if you want to train behavior you reward good the good things with playing time and continue to punish the bad. It's basic coaching that as you alluded to they have been taught since they were seven.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 28, 2016 0:01:49 GMT -5
Disagree. When it's year after year, it is not a player problem. year after year?? Its been with these players. 2 years ago did we not have a 4 seed? Have you checked his record in the New BE?
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 28, 2016 0:27:21 GMT -5
year after year?? Its been with these players. 2 years ago did we not have a 4 seed? Have you checked his record in the New BE? I believe it's over .500 but I'd have to double check which is sad in and of itself.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 28, 2016 1:13:44 GMT -5
Have you checked his record in the New BE? I believe it's over .500 but I'd have to double check which is sad in and of itself. Our good friends at Casual provided the following info for the 3+ years of the New BE: "Georgetown aggregate team record beginning in 2013-14: 57-48 (54%) Record Vs. Teams in the New Big East: 29-31 (48%) Record Vs New Big East Teams other than DePaul and St Johns: 18-28 (39%)!! Record in Total Away Games: 10-21 (32%) Record in Neutral-Site Games: 10-11 (48%) Aggregate team record for all games outside of D.C.: 20-32 (38%) New BE Record in "close games" (5 -points or less, or OT): 7-12 (37%) Record vs Villanova: 1-6 Record vs Xavier: 2-5 Record vs Providence: 1-5"
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Nov 28, 2016 8:08:55 GMT -5
I believe it's over .500 but I'd have to double check which is sad in and of itself. Our good friends at Casual provided the following info for the 3+ years of the New BE: "Georgetown aggregate team record beginning in 2013-14: 57-48 (54%) Record Vs. Teams in the New Big East: 29-31 (48%) Record Vs New Big East Teams other than DePaul and St Johns: 18-28 (39%)!! Record in Total Away Games: 10-21 (32%) Record in Neutral-Site Games: 10-11 (48%) Aggregate team record for all games outside of D.C.: 20-32 (38%) New BE Record in "close games" (5 -points or less, or OT): 7-12 (37%) Record vs Villanova: 1-6 Record vs Xavier: 2-5 Record vs Providence: 1-5" Whether you are pro- or anti- JTIII, these stats are both damning and depressing. Just an awful, awful run the program has been on, and at a time when the conference really needed leadership. That ship has sailed, and Villanova (and Xavier and creighton, to a lesser extent), have seized the leadership role. Embarrassing for our program, and completely dismaying as a fan and supporter.
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Post by krukster201 on Nov 28, 2016 8:34:50 GMT -5
WHAT A JOKE!!! No excuse and absolutely no positive way to spin this. Feels like it's down hill from here until extreme changes are made. I Call it how I see it , Enough is enough. I wanna see how long they except this downward spiral and man up to do the right thing. Our fan base deserves better. Sorry if this offends anyone , but we're all entitled to our own opinion. I've loved this program for over 35yrs and will always be a Hoya fan , but come on .. if you can't see JT3 is in over his head and not the man for the job then ... smh. Night in and night out he continuously gets out-coached regardless of competition. I pray for the best and will continue to have my heart broken over and over until the powers that be man up.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 28, 2016 9:59:32 GMT -5
I know what has happened, jt3 fell and hit his head. He thinks he is Craig esherick. And it's not even his fault he is just coaching like him. Never mind at least esherick teams rebounded. And played hard, my mistake. This post is nonsensical. If you think Esherick was better then there's no reasoning with you.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 28, 2016 10:54:29 GMT -5
We need massive improvement during December because right now, Xavier, Nova, Creighton & Butler are head and shoulders above us. I would even argue that Seton Hall is too. Providence and Marquette are off to solid starts and are also probably above us right now. That leaves us, St. John's & Depaul and likely another losing season unless things really change.
PG play is horrendous right now and we might need to move Peak there. I think rebounding will improve with Agau, Hayes & Derrickson now available. That leaves TO as the number one issue for this team with guarding PG's being number 2.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
"Roy! I Love All 7'2" of you Roy!"
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 28, 2016 10:59:29 GMT -5
We need massive improvement during December because right now, Xavier, Nova, Creighton & Butler are head and shoulders above us. I would even argue that Seton Hall is too. Providence and Marquette are off to solid starts and are also probably above us right now. That leaves us, St. John's & Depaul and likely another losing season unless things really change. PG play is horrendous right now and we might need to move Peak there. I think rebounding will improve with Agau, Hayes & Derrickson now available. That leaves TO as the number one issue for this team with guarding PG's being number 2. According to KenPom, we're 7th in the Big East so far, ahead of only SJU and DePaul. Creighton, Butler, Xavier and Nova are all top 25 teams. Seton Hall is a top 50 team, PC is a top 60 team and we're just outside the top 60. SJU is sitting at 99th, and DePaul remains DePaul, ranked 180th.
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This Just In
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Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
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Post by This Just In on Nov 28, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5
We need massive improvement during December because right now, Xavier, Nova, Creighton & Butler are head and shoulders above us. I would even argue that Seton Hall is too. Providence and Marquette are off to solid starts and are also probably above us right now. That leaves us, St. John's & Depaul and likely another losing season unless things really change. PG play is horrendous right now and we might need to move Peak there. I think rebounding will improve with Agau, Hayes & Derrickson now available. That leaves TO as the number one issue for this team with guarding PG's being number 2. According to KenPom, we're 7th in the Big East so far, ahead of only SJU and DePaul. Creighton, Butler, Xavier and Nova are all top 25 teams. Seton Hall is a top 50 team, PC is a top 60 team and we're just outside the top 60. SJU is sitting at 99th, and DePaul remains DePaul, ranked 180th. There are 10 teams in the Big East, who are the other team ranked below Gtown?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 28, 2016 12:02:04 GMT -5
There are 10 teams in the Big East, who are the other team ranked below Gtown? On KenPom.com: Villanova: 4 Xavier: 12 Butler: 17 Creighton: 22 Marquette: 42 Seton Hall: 49 Providence: 59 Georgetown: 63 St. John's: 99 DePaul: 180 For what it's worth, before Maui we were ranked about 40.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 28, 2016 12:19:10 GMT -5
The only reason why we aren't much lower in these rankings is due to the preseason ranking. It's not a ranking that captures only the games played so far. We had a decent preseason ranking due to returning players and experience.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 28, 2016 12:40:19 GMT -5
We need massive improvement during December because right now, Xavier, Nova, Creighton & Butler are head and shoulders above us. I would even argue that Seton Hall is too. Providence and Marquette are off to solid starts and are also probably above us right now. That leaves us, St. John's & Depaul and likely another losing season unless things really change. PG play is horrendous right now and we might need to move Peak there. I think rebounding will improve with Agau, Hayes & Derrickson now available. That leaves TO as the number one issue for this team with guarding PG's being number 2. I agree with most of your post except moving Peak to PG. We simply cannot have him defending opposing PGs because he will foul at a rate that will keep him off the floor. We need him on the floor. JT3 needs to figure out how he can mask his PGs' deficiencies because none of the 3 options at that position can be relied on to out-perform their competition every game.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Nov 28, 2016 13:10:23 GMT -5
Good point hometown. I might switch "out-perform their competition every game" to "out-perform their competition ANY game". Just horrendous so far.
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