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Post by JohnnyJones on Nov 25, 2016 23:49:20 GMT -5
We should not make any changes as long as we are content to become DePaul. I was wondering if you were ever going to post again!
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Nov 26, 2016 10:51:53 GMT -5
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Nov 26, 2016 18:56:30 GMT -5
I know what has happened, jt3 fell and hit his head. He thinks he is Craig esherick. And it's not even his fault he is just coaching like him. Never mind at least esherick teams rebounded. And played hard, my mistake.
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Post by jctnhoya4ever on Nov 26, 2016 19:03:19 GMT -5
I thing big john needs to help jt3 out and jar his memory back.then go to locker room and show team some film on the teams he coached,on how to hustle and go get a rebound,
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 26, 2016 20:43:21 GMT -5
To me firing is a topic for once we see how this season goes. And to say definitively that we are going down the road of last season is premature. I think the fixing of this team will come from the team not from coaching. Isaac Copeland is too talented to play how he is and it has nothing to do with coaching. The inability to block out is not coaching. they were coached this at 7 yrs old. this is want to. no one is being a leader and calling out guys. thats why when I hear teams all like each other it is not necessarily a great thing. I think that is what is going on here Remember for how "limited" Hopkins and Trawick were we won alot of games because those two took pride in hustling. I couldn't disagree more as far as coaching that the playing isn't a factor. When someone isn't doing the fundamentals that's when the coach needs to sit him until he does them. And when he puts him back in a game and the same behavior is exhibited he immediately sits again. It's one thing to ask a player to go up against something they can't handle or perform but another to continue to reward them with playing time when they clearly aren't doing the basic things they are quite capable of doing. That's on a coach unless he's saying that's the best this roster has and can do which is a far greater problem because we've seen enough of the current version of Ike.
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,592
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Post by This Just In on Nov 26, 2016 22:43:13 GMT -5
I thing big john needs to help jt3 out and jar his memory back.then go to locker room and show team some film on the teams he coached,on how to hustle and go get a rebound, The next 4 games are Howard, Coppin State, Elon, and La Salle Do you think the Hoyas will go 4-0 against that group?
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,558
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Post by tashoya on Nov 27, 2016 0:58:39 GMT -5
Play Trey. Kid has desire and some skills. He fouls a ton but he should get minutes because effort is lacking in a couple of slots and Trey isn't lacking in that regard. If you're going to lose to crappy teams, don't do it quietly. Please look like you're trying at every position when you do.
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Post by HometownHoya on Nov 27, 2016 1:17:42 GMT -5
I thing big john needs to help jt3 out and jar his memory back.then go to locker room and show team some film on the teams he coached,on how to hustle and go get a rebound, The next 4 games are Howard, Coppin State, Elon, and La Salle Do you think the Hoyas will go 4-0 against that group? No one knows...let's watch them one game at a time.
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2016 6:17:44 GMT -5
To me firing is a topic for once we see how this season goes. And to say definitively that we are going down the road of last season is premature. I think the fixing of this team will come from the team not from coaching. Isaac Copeland is too talented to play how he is and it has nothing to do with coaching. The inability to block out is not coaching. they were coached this at 7 yrs old. this is want to. no one is being a leader and calling out guys. thats why when I hear teams all like each other it is not necessarily a great thing. I think that is what is going on here Remember for how "limited" Hopkins and Trawick were we won alot of games because those two took pride in hustling. I couldn't disagree more as far as coaching that the playing isn't a factor. When someone isn't doing the fundamentals that's when the coach needs to sit him until he does them. And when he puts him back in a game and the same behavior is exhibited he immediately sits again. It's one thing to ask a player to go up against something they can't handle or perform but another to continue to reward them with playing time when they clearly aren't doing the basic things they are quite capable of doing. That's on a coach unless he's saying that's the best this roster has and can do which is a far greater problem because we've seen enough of the current version of Ike. these are people not dogs. It is not as simple as you make it. when you get outrebounded by 30 it is not just Ike. thats a teamwide thing. Do you suggest benching the whole team??? This is a team problem not a coach problem. Maybe they do need a new voice but I doubt if you put someone in tomorrow you would see dramatic change in results. this team doesnt have it in them right now on how hard you have to play to win at this level. Also you have certain players because of how things are going taking it upon themselves to do more when what more they should be doing are the hustle plays not taking on 3 guys trying to score. Everything is disconnected, No talking on D and no truning and putting a body on someone. Everyone turns and watches.Stretches of both the Oklahoma St game and the Wisky game the initial D was good especially when the bench was in front of coach. hence why we were down by 3 at half.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Nov 27, 2016 9:09:18 GMT -5
I couldn't disagree more as far as coaching that the playing isn't a factor. When someone isn't doing the fundamentals that's when the coach needs to sit him until he does them. And when he puts him back in a game and the same behavior is exhibited he immediately sits again. It's one thing to ask a player to go up against something they can't handle or perform but another to continue to reward them with playing time when they clearly aren't doing the basic things they are quite capable of doing. That's on a coach unless he's saying that's the best this roster has and can do which is a far greater problem because we've seen enough of the current version of Ike. these are people not dogs. It is not as simple as you make it. when you get outrebounded by 30 it is not just Ike. thats a teamwide thing. Do you suggest benching the whole team??? This is a team problem not a coach problem. Maybe they do need a new voice but I doubt if you put someone in tomorrow you would see dramatic change in results. this team doesnt have it in them right now on how hard you have to play to win at this level. Also you have certain players because of how things are going taking it upon themselves to do more when what more they should be doing are the hustle plays not taking on 3 guys trying to score. Everything is disconnected, No talking on D and no truning and putting a body on someone. Everyone turns and watches.Stretches of both the Oklahoma St game and the Wisky game the initial D was good especially when the bench was in front of coach. hence why we were down by 3 at half. It's tough, no doubt. We've seen a lot of different lineup combinations this year and obviously haven't found the one that solves our various issues, so I agree with you for the most part. I do stop short of cutting JT3 slack when it comes to getting dominated (is that a strong enough word?) on the boards though. If we can't make a shot or there seems to be a lid on the basket any given night? Fine, it happens. Turnovers? They happen, too, and some are acceptable hustle turnovers. But rebounding is 90% effort and aggression, and that seems to be lacking across the roster (Pryor and perhaps agau excluded). Id even cut him a break if we were throwing out small, unathletic lineups. But I'm not sure many teams have more explosive, athletic rosters than ours. Something is clearly missing, whether it's instruction or motivation, and I do trace both of those back to the coach.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,650
Member is Online
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Nov 27, 2016 10:12:07 GMT -5
It's not just the board, the announcers kept harping on our lack of effort and how dumbfounded they were. Not a good look on national television.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 27, 2016 11:01:47 GMT -5
I think that like any CBB coach, JT3's performance must be analyzed per both roles, the coach and the recruiter, or "GM". With respect to coaching, JT3 is probably an average coach -- not great but not bad. I think that he did well in the 2005-2012 era as a coach in general, when he had good talent by and large. However, his coaching flaws were exposed in the postseason, starting with Davidson and culminating in the 2012 FGSU disaster. Also, even when doing well in the regular season, his system, rightly or wrongly, was perceived as not guard friendly. And, this happened as CBB trended even more towards the importance of guard play, with both the popularity of the dribble drive game and the tighter fouling rules that put a premium on top guards that could penetrate. The program thus got a rep of not being guard friendly and not a place where you win in the postseason. This in turn has lead to a downturn in our talent level. This has been most evident in guard recruits. The only true solid CBB level guard we have recruited in the past 5 years is DSR. Despite some limitations he was a very good 4 year player. Aside from him, we had no guards in two of the years after him (Trawick was more of a SF type), and only one HS guard in two of the other years - Campbell and Moseley. These guys are top 150 types at best. So in five classes, we had DSR, Trey and Jagan. That quality and quality simply will not cut it in a guard-dominated CBB. I also think that there are flaws in talent identification. Going for a Cameron over a Josh Hart, and the like. Also, with the "system", the plan called for more "long", "skilled" front court players, and not on the bulkier, tougher less "skilled" types. Guys like Otto, Hopkins and Trawick had the toughness to compete inside, but the trend was not towards high motor, do the dirty work type guys. The decline in the program's rep has lead to recruiting patches, like the Josh Smith experiment, the Whittington fiasco, and now, the need to patch things up with JUCO and fifth year guys. The bottom line is that this team is not a talented one. You do not have the early season losses of last year -- Redford, etc., and of this year with good talent. This is a 4-14 team going back to last season's end, and even a better X and O coach cannot do much better. In sum, I think that the current state of affairs is the result of multiple factors over a long period of time. There is no quick fix, whether JT3 remains or not. The question is whether to stick with JT# and give him more time to turn it around, or go in another direction. And, more important;y, with the school even consider the latter. It is tough to fire a guy whose father's name is on the new facility, and would a coach leave a near $3 ml. gig voluntarily? I stopped and scrubbed my brain clean after I read there was no talent on this team....
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by dense on Nov 27, 2016 15:25:45 GMT -5
People act like he forgot how to coach from the comments. I say it is a team attitude. Other teams were successful. This team does not compete. That is the problem maybe you need a new voice but it wont be fixed just by "getting rid of Jt3" this is a player problem.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,303
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 27, 2016 15:29:52 GMT -5
Talent. Need it.
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 27, 2016 15:34:14 GMT -5
Please stop saying there isn't talent or that it's a player issue. It's not a great roster but it sure as hell isn't this bad.
How about player development? Being properly taught how to play defense? Having a cultural that demands effort? Why do our players never appear in that great of shape?
This is not personnel. This is culture/teaching/development and that lands at the feet one man.
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,303
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Post by 95hoya on Nov 27, 2016 15:52:05 GMT -5
There's talent, just not enough when you compare it to the competition. Especially at key positions.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Nov 27, 2016 16:51:52 GMT -5
III's biggest coaching problem is he isn't a good mental coach. Players that don't need to be coaxed and motivated to play their best are the players he has had the most success with. He's not a coach that instills a killer instinct in his players.
This would be fine if he didn't recruit a bunch of mentally soft players who's biggest obstacles are mental and being more aggressive. And this is why we are in the mess we currently find ourselves.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Nov 27, 2016 17:13:57 GMT -5
I have gotten beyond being angry at the baseless attacks on the coaching staff and now am at the point where I actually find humor in the attempts to peg the problems on coaching.
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Post by jld54 on Nov 27, 2016 18:12:47 GMT -5
I think that like any CBB coach, JT3's performance must be analyzed per both roles, the coach and the recruiter, or "GM". With respect to coaching, JT3 is probably an average coach -- not great but not bad. I think that he did well in the 2005-2012 era as a coach in general, when he had good talent by and large. However, his coaching flaws were exposed in the postseason, starting with Davidson and culminating in the 2012 FGSU disaster. Also, even when doing well in the regular season, his system, rightly or wrongly, was perceived as not guard friendly. And, this happened as CBB trended even more towards the importance of guard play, with both the popularity of the dribble drive game and the tighter fouling rules that put a premium on top guards that could penetrate. The program thus got a rep of not being guard friendly and not a place where you win in the postseason. This in turn has lead to a downturn in our talent level. This has been most evident in guard recruits. The only true solid CBB level guard we have recruited in the past 5 years is DSR. Despite some limitations he was a very good 4 year player. Aside from him, we had no guards in two of the years after him (Trawick was more of a SF type), and only one HS guard in two of the other years - Campbell and Moseley. These guys are top 150 types at best. So in five classes, we had DSR, Trey and Jagan. That quality and quality simply will not cut it in a guard-dominated CBB. I also think that there are flaws in talent identification. Going for a Cameron over a Josh Hart, and the like. Also, with the "system", the plan called for more "long", "skilled" front court players, and not on the bulkier, tougher less "skilled" types. Guys like Otto, Hopkins and Trawick had the toughness to compete inside, but the trend was not towards high motor, do the dirty work type guys. The decline in the program's rep has lead to recruiting patches, like the Josh Smith experiment, the Whittington fiasco, and now, the need to patch things up with JUCO and fifth year guys. The bottom line is that this team is not a talented one. You do not have the early season losses of last year -- Redford, etc., and of this year with good talent. This is a 4-14 team going back to last season's end, and even a better X and O coach cannot do much better. In sum, I think that the current state of affairs is the result of multiple factors over a long period of time. There is no quick fix, whether JT3 remains or not. The question is whether to stick with JT# and give him more time to turn it around, or go in another direction. And, more important;y, with the school even consider the latter. It is tough to fire a guy whose father's name is on the new facility, and would a coach leave a near $3 ml. gig voluntarily? I stopped and scrubbed my brain clean after I read there was no talent on this team.... It is not a question of NO talent -- the issue is lower level talent. It is way down from the Jeff/Roy/PE Jr. days, The Austin/Greg/Chris days and the Sims/Hollis/Otto days. Name one player that will make an NBA squad -- perhaps Peak. That is likely it. The coaching staff is not blameless either as it is responsible for recruiting and player development-- but the latter is mainly up to the player.
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smokeyjack
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,301
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 27, 2016 18:13:14 GMT -5
I have gotten beyond being angry at the baseless attacks on the coaching staff and now am at the point where I actually find humor in the attempts to peg the problems on coaching. These aren't the droids you are looking for...
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