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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2016 15:49:36 GMT -5
Well right now the point guards offers almost zero offensive threat. With Jagan and Mulmore you hope they get acclimated to the game and Campbell is what he is. The strongest unit has Peak at point and honestly I do t think theirs much of a downgrade in ball handling, decision. Making and point guard IQ between Peak and the others. The strongest unit had Peak and Pryor in the back court then some combination of Copeland/derrickson/akoy/mounrning + govan/Hayes in the front court. I don't disagree with this at all and if it's the case then why not go with it? If Jagan or another guard need to be in the game for defense then fine, but stop having them handle the ball and try to run the offense. The offense doesn't work. If none of the PG can beat anyone off the dribble then what is the point of them having the ball. Give it to LJ or Rodney, set the pick for them cause the switch and see what happens. The problem is I don't necessarily think that Jagan and Mulmore can't beat the guys off the dribble it's just not part of the offense so they don't do it. I am sick of seeing the 3 man weave and useless passes around the perimeter as most of the offense which eventually just leads to a jump shot which you can get at any point. Well the hope is that one of them develops in time for Big east play, BET, or March Madness. This comes at the cost of some wins early on but allows for peaking at the right time. If you sit them we get the complaint of not given them PT and developing them because the best way to learn is through playing time and experience rather than sitting on he bench (assuming you aren't completely not at this level ala Kwame brown, thrown into the fire)
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 22, 2016 16:00:56 GMT -5
May also want to post this: www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/116466/georgetown-is-a-mystery-for-the-second-straight-yearEven a successful season (however you may define) does not, in an of itself, negate JTIII's underachievement. The use of the word "hater" is juvenile at best to describe those of us who like the man but not the coach. If JTIII was your financial adviser would you retain him based on past performance? I hope the season is successful this year but one year does not define a successful (on court) program. Let's hope it continues. And if JT3 was a lion tamer would you hire to cut your hair? What is the point of questions like that?
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AltoSaxa
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,126
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Post by AltoSaxa on Nov 22, 2016 16:09:32 GMT -5
Think about. You can do it. Just trust yourself.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2016 16:18:56 GMT -5
May also want to post this: www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/116466/georgetown-is-a-mystery-for-the-second-straight-yearEven a successful season (however you may define) does not, in an of itself, negate JTIII's underachievement. The use of the word "hater" is juvenile at best to describe those of us who like the man but not the coach. If JTIII was your financial adviser would you retain him based on past performance? I hope the season is successful this year but one year does not define a successful (on court) program. Let's hope it continues. And if JT3 was a lion tamer would you hire to cut your hair? What is the point of questions like that? Rock - I believe listening to Bill Walton has gotten to you😎😗🌿
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 22, 2016 16:37:29 GMT -5
I don't disagree with this at all and if it's the case then why not go with it? If Jagan or another guard need to be in the game for defense then fine, but stop having them handle the ball and try to run the offense. The offense doesn't work. If none of the PG can beat anyone off the dribble then what is the point of them having the ball. Give it to LJ or Rodney, set the pick for them cause the switch and see what happens. The problem is I don't necessarily think that Jagan and Mulmore can't beat the guys off the dribble it's just not part of the offense so they don't do it. I am sick of seeing the 3 man weave and useless passes around the perimeter as most of the offense which eventually just leads to a jump shot which you can get at any point. Well the hope is that one of them develops in time for Big east play, BET, or March Madness. This comes at the cost of some wins early on but allows for peaking at the right time. If you sit them we get the complaint of not given them PT and developing them because the best way to learn is through playing time and experience rather than sitting on he bench (assuming you aren't completely not at this level ala Kwame brown, thrown into the fire) When you fall flat like last year and know there is pressure to perform you have to get results. This team doesn't peak at the right time. I would say it rarely gets better in comparison to our opponents through the year. There will be plenty of games to develop but this team needs wins. Tre and Ike have been given all the time to develop and big game experience they need. It has cost us in the past and what has it gotten us now other than JT3 I guess thinking they are good because they have experience. To that point Tre and Ike are knowns at this point, Mulmore and Agau are unkowns. I am not sure how good Mulmore is to be honest, and I am not that high, but I know what Tre is and I'll take my chances with the unknown whatever alternative that may be. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results and at this point this team is driving me to insanity. I am the foolish one that gets my hopes up every year thinking this year it's going to be different. If things aren't different at the end of this year he has to go. If things turn around and we make it to the sweet 16 I'll be the first one here saying thank the lord because ultimately that is what we all want. Hoya Saxa beat Wisconsin.
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rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
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Post by rockhoya on Nov 22, 2016 16:37:53 GMT -5
And if JT3 was a lion tamer would you hire to cut your hair? What is the point of questions like that? Rock - I believe listening to Bill Walton has gotten to you😎😗🌿 Good one.
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,920
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Post by Filo on Nov 22, 2016 16:45:09 GMT -5
OK, I'll bite. The Oregon game was a reflection of the maddening inconsistency of his teams. Great first half followed by an 8 minute junk show to start the half. Bad ballhandling and composure that we saw in the Ark St. game reared its head again with Rodney trying to dribble through the entire defense and Jagan, Tre & Mulmore all finding the corner and waiting for the trap to come. Lessons clearly not learned from the prior s**t show against Ark St. And the end game was an utter s-show - lessons not learned from the Maryland debacle. It was a great win and I'm happy for the team and staff, but you're not paying attention if that 17 point halftime lead didn't send shivers down your spine (even if it didn't bring back memories of the Davidson loss after a 17 point lead that started this whole mess). It's impossible to know whether yesterday will be like the Xavier game was last season (certainly one of the most inexplicable results of the entire 2015-16 college hoops season) or whether it's a signal that this team is different. More generally, haters is a juvenile term. Grow up. These are genuine issues within this program, and the people discussing them have as much passion for the school and team as you do. Kind of understandable to have a juvenile reaction to combat some of thus juvenile crap all from the Arkansas State thread (admittedly not a big fan of this thread, either): I am waiting for the pro-JTIII crowd to start given excuses , it is just the third game, we are trying a new system. Give me a break, I just feel terrible for TWO NEW RECRUITS THAT ARE COMING NEXT YEAR and have to endure this terrible basketball. I am extremely surprise that the JTIII defenders have nothing to say. Maybe because you all can not defend this basketball program anymore. I am still waiting for the excuses. I am still waiting for the excuses. They're all back under their Hoya rock. Don't turn it over or we'll be inundated. I just cant believe that nobody is going to defend the coach after such a magnificent game plan. I am waiting anxiously for all the excuses. Still waiting for some excuses .
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2016 16:47:28 GMT -5
We won! A big game! Can't we all just get along? (Until the next loss at least?)
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Nov 22, 2016 16:51:38 GMT -5
Well the hope is that one of them develops in time for Big east play, BET, or March Madness. This comes at the cost of some wins early on but allows for peaking at the right time. If you sit them we get the complaint of not given them PT and developing them because the best way to learn is through playing time and experience rather than sitting on he bench (assuming you aren't completely not at this level ala Kwame brown, thrown into the fire) When you fall flat like last year and know there is pressure to perform you have to get results. This team doesn't peak at the right time. I would say it rarely gets better in comparison to our opponents through the year. There will be plenty of games to develop but this team needs wins. Tre and Ike have been given all the time to develop and big game experience they need. It has cost us in the past and what has it gotten us now other than JT3 I guess thinking they are good because they have experience. To that point Tre and Ike are knowns at this point, Mulmore and Agau are unkowns. I am not sure how good Mulmore is to be honest, and I am not that high, but I know what Tre is and I'll take my chances with the unknown whatever alternative that may be. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results and at this point this team is driving me to insanity. I am the foolish one that gets my hopes up every year thinking this year it's going to be different. If things aren't different at the end of this year he has to go. If things turn around and we make it to the sweet 16 I'll be the first one here saying thank the lord because ultimately that is what we all want. Hoya Saxa beat Wisconsin. Translated: I hate JT3, but if he has a good season, I'll be the first on the bandwagon.
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Post by trillesthoya on Nov 22, 2016 17:02:28 GMT -5
These discussions of JT3 are approaching ad nauseum status if they haven't already.
JT3 has had success as the head coach of Georgetown in the past, but in recent years the team has either struggled significantly or failed to live up to its potential.
The reasons for this may be due to poor roster construction, JT3's failure to adapt to the modern game, or JT3's poor in-game coaching and ability to inspire the players. Most likely it is complex interaction of those three factors and cannot be isolated to one singular reason.
JT3 has shown this year that he is willing to make significant changes to the play style: we are playing faster, pressing harder, and employing new offensive sets we have not seen before. Thus far this has been met with varying success: went well against USC Upstate, Maryland till the last two minutes, and the first half against Oregon. It was a mess the last two mins of Maryland, Arkansas St., and the second half of Oregon. This is most likely because the team and 3 himself are new to this style of play, and it will take time to adjust.
We should give him till the end of the season to see what he can do with this team. If he can pull it together and get us into the tournament and to the second weekend, the team is his. If he fails to do so, we should reconsider our options. There is no use in discussing this further, it's simply too early into the season to know.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 22, 2016 17:09:46 GMT -5
I don't think a team that even missed the NIT has to make it all the way to the second weekend to be considered a successful season. But the NCAA's, yeah we need that.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 22, 2016 18:25:46 GMT -5
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results and at this point this team is driving me to insanity. I am the only one who hates this expression? Part of the reason I hate it in this context is because we are not doing the same thing over and over. Our offense is significantly faster than it's ever been, we are pressing a lot more than we have in the past, and the defense is causing a lot more turnovers that it ever has before, and we are attacking the rim a lot more and drawing more fouls. Now, there are some negatives that come along with that (like allowing opponents easy 2's when they break the press), but it's simply not the same. Go back and watch tape from 2007. It's not he same - and not just because we don't have two NBA caliber players, but because that defense was much more of a slow-Princeton style offense - something that really doesn't exist anymore. Now, if you want to say that our players aren't performing as a whole, you won't get an argument from me. Really, the only positive offense has been Peak, Pryor, and Govan. Maybe Hayes will add some too, and Derrickson if he heals. But otherwise, everyone else has been pretty poor on offense and that's not the system. We agree on this!
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
Posts: 4,719
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 22, 2016 19:52:00 GMT -5
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results and at this point this team is driving me to insanity. I am the only one who hates this expression? Part of the reason I hate it in this context is because we are not doing the same thing over and over. Our offense is significantly faster than it's ever been, we are pressing a lot more than we have in the past, and the defense is causing a lot more turnovers that it ever has before, and we are attacking the rim a lot more and drawing more fouls. Now, there are some negatives that come along with that (like allowing opponents easy 2's when they break the press), but it's simply not the same. Go back and watch tape from 2007. It's not he same - and not just because we don't have two NBA caliber players, but because that defense was much more of a slow-Princeton style offense - something that really doesn't exist anymore. Now, if you want to say that our players aren't performing as a whole, you won't get an argument from me. Really, the only positive offense has been Peak, Pryor, and Govan. Maybe Hayes will add some too, and Derrickson if he heals. But otherwise, everyone else has been pretty poor on offense and that's not the system. We agree on this! I've said it before but I will say it again. The HALF COURT OFFENSE is virtually the same and this is what concerns me. Yes we are running more on some rebounds and turnovers (this is great and a welcome change) and that is drawing more fouls, but once we slow down and get into the half court its awful and the same. The idea that we are driving and drawing more fouls in the half court is simply not true. We are not running anything that resembles the dribble drive offense. We are shooting over 60% jump shots and that includes when shots when we get out on the break. That means a ton of the half court possessions are ending with jump shots. Those jump shots may be happening quicker in the shot clock but that doesn't mean they are good shots. When we hit them everything is fine and when we don't we get dreaded drought that we seem to have every game. Even Walton pointed out yesterday when we were struggling how long it took us to get the offense going and once we did nothing really happened. Simply said we are not getting easy buckets when we have to run the half court offense. Yes the length of possessions is less because of the run outs. We did not show to be a very good pressing team so I suspect we will see more token pressure than real full court pressure going forward which will make the possessions longer. You can blame it on the players and yes some of the blame has to go there but you also have to put blame on coaches for not giving them the best chance to succeed or just not finding the right personnel. I think part of my frustration is knowing that LJ and Rodney (and DSR was) are NBA level scorers. I am not sure about all around NBA players but they can score. Its frustrating that even with them plus a solid post presence in Jessie we cant score at will and still have these droughts. I too am hoping that Bradley and Marcus are the answers to the problem. I also think it's silly when people say the JT3 detractors are haters and just don't like him. I am pretty sure everyone posting here wants the same thing and that is for the Hoyas to win. That has not been happening on a consistent enough basis and the one constant is the coach. I think JT3 is a good person and representative of Georgetown but I don't look to the Hoyas to be my feel good positive story. I look to them to provide me with joy when watching college basketball and that has not been happening much lately. That doesn't mean I hate JT3 I just don't think he is doing a good job coaching this team for whatever reason. If it doesn't change this year then I think he should be gone. At the end of this year he will have been given more than ample enough time to prove himself.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 22, 2016 20:04:31 GMT -5
I am the only one who hates this expression? Part of the reason I hate it in this context is because we are not doing the same thing over and over. Our offense is significantly faster than it's ever been, we are pressing a lot more than we have in the past, and the defense is causing a lot more turnovers that it ever has before, and we are attacking the rim a lot more and drawing more fouls. Now, there are some negatives that come along with that (like allowing opponents easy 2's when they break the press), but it's simply not the same. Go back and watch tape from 2007. It's not he same - and not just because we don't have two NBA caliber players, but because that defense was much more of a slow-Princeton style offense - something that really doesn't exist anymore. Now, if you want to say that our players aren't performing as a whole, you won't get an argument from me. Really, the only positive offense has been Peak, Pryor, and Govan. Maybe Hayes will add some too, and Derrickson if he heals. But otherwise, everyone else has been pretty poor on offense and that's not the system. We agree on this! I've said it before but I will say it again. The HALF COURT OFFENSE is virtually the same and this is what concerns me. Yes we are running more on some rebounds and turnovers (this is great and a welcome change) and that is drawing more fouls, but once we slow down and get into the half court its awful and the same. The idea that we are driving and drawing more fouls in the half court is simply not true. We are not running anything that resembles the dribble drive offense. We are shooting over 60% jump shots and that includes when shots when we get out on the break. That means a ton of the half court possessions are ending with jump shots. Those jump shots may be happening quicker in the shot clock but that doesn't mean they are good shots. When we hit them everything is fine and when we don't we get dreaded drought that we seem to have every game. Even Walton pointed out yesterday when we were struggling how long it took us to get the offense going and once we did nothing really happened. Simply said we are not getting easy buckets when we have to run the half court offense. Yes the length of possessions is less because of the run outs. We did not show to be a very good pressing team so I suspect we will see more token pressure than real full court pressure going forward which will make the possessions longer. You can blame it on the players and yes some of the blame has to go there but you also have to put blame on coaches for not giving them the best chance to succeed or just not finding the right personnel. I think part of my frustration is knowing that LJ and Rodney (and DSR was) are NBA level scorers. I am not sure about all around NBA players but they can score. Its frustrating that even with them plus a solid post presence in Jessie we cant score at will and still have these droughts. I too am hoping that Bradley and Marcus are the answers to the problem. I also think it's silly when people say the JT3 detractors are haters and just don't like him. I am pretty sure everyone posting here wants the same thing and that is for the Hoyas to win. That has not been happening on a consistent enough basis and the one constant is the coach. I think JT3 is a good person and representative of Georgetown but I don't look to the Hoyas to be my feel good positive story. I look to them to provide me with joy when watching college basketball and that has not been happening much lately. That doesn't mean I hate JT3 I just don't think he is doing a good job coaching this team for whatever reason. If it doesn't change this year then I think he should be gone. At the end of this year he will have been given more than ample enough time to prove himself. Don't worry about being attacked when you have something to say that doesn't go along with the majority it's just what happens here. No one, including me hates JTIII, and we've all rooted for him for a long time. However, some believe he's not getting it done on a consistent enough basis for the position that he sits. No crime in that just the reality of coaching in big time sports. He's had way to many cases of embarrassing losses for this program by not having them ready to play against inferior programs. This is not something that has happened once or twice but as Cosmo pointed to, it's happened at an alarming rate over several years. Then you take his lack of tournament teams in the last few years and you aren't even what we were defending a few years back which was a program that would get a high seed and lose. Now we don't get a seed at all. I'll be rooting for the win against Wisconsin tonight as I think we have a shot in that game. I don't worry much about these games but I do worry about the ones when we are supposed to win and don't. Good teams put away the teams they are supposed to beat.
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royski
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,297
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Post by royski on Nov 22, 2016 22:02:52 GMT -5
God this thread looks stupid.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2016 22:43:58 GMT -5
God this thread looks stupid. stupid is a juvenile word.
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navio
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 155
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Post by navio on Nov 22, 2016 22:49:19 GMT -5
Off topic, but I really feel like this team can win the BE tournament. However, I also feel like this team can finish near last place in the conference.
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 22, 2016 22:51:58 GMT -5
God this thread looks stupid. stupid is a juvenile word. I'd say substitute stupid with premature in light of what we've been through for past many years and that would be a correct assessment. For someone to come out with this kind of post after one game in which we tried to find many ways to lose it was not a declaration that we've put some body of work behind us to dispel what we've been.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,526
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Post by prhoya on Nov 22, 2016 23:01:37 GMT -5
Off topic, but I really feel like this team can win the BE tournament. However, I also feel like this team can finish near last place in the conference. Before the season started and after the USC game, I thought this team would be Top 5... Blue&Grey-colored glasses, my friend. It boils down to this: to win a tournament, a team needs a little luck and to put together 3 or more good to great consistent performances. Ask yourself: When was the last time a JT3-coached Hoya team put together 3 good to great consistent performances?
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eagle54
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,471
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 22, 2016 23:03:10 GMT -5
Off topic, but I really feel like this team can win the BE tournament. However, I also feel like this team can finish near last place in the conference. Before the season started and after the USC game, I thought this team would be Top 5... Blue&Grey-colored glasses, my friend. It boils down to this: to win a tournament, a team needs a little luck and to put 3 or more good to great consistent performances. Ask yourself: When was the last time a JT3-coached Hoya team put 3 good to great performances? 2007
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