blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 22, 2016 11:59:55 GMT -5
For you all clamoring about Jt3 and the style of play...if you have been paying attention to our first 4 games....you'll have noticed a lot of change. Our style of play is vastly different then it was just a year ago.
1. He has sped up the game. Don't have an official stat as far as possessions per game, but based on the eye test, it seems to be up. Players are looking for the first good shot and are looking to attack first.
2. On and off throughout the games, Jt3 is employing a full court press ...again, speeding up the game.
3. Attacking the press. As time was winding down and Oregon was pressuring us, our Hoyas went straight at them and attacked the basket....leading to some critical free throws. When was the last time that happened?
4. 3 and 4 guard line ups. At one point late on the 2nd half, Jt3 went to a line up of Agau, Pryor, LJ, Mosley and Campbell...and it was effective.
5. Recruiting - Jt3 is making this changes on the recruiting front as well. Brought in talented defenders with the foot speed and toughness to stay in front of their guy. Guys who can go and get their own shot. And just landed one of the top point guards in next year's class.
JT3 has been making he changes we have all been asking for and as supporters of this program, we need to let it all play out. This team is learning the new philosophy and learning how to close out a game. We still have a tendency to get complacent, but if we can address that, good things should happen.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 22, 2016 12:08:47 GMT -5
For you all clamoring about Jt3 and the style of play...if you have been paying attention to our first 4 games....you'll have noticed a lot of change. Our style of play is vastly different then it was just a year ago. 1. He has sped up the game. Don't have an official stat as far as possessions per game, but based on the eye test, it seems to be up. Players are looking for the first good shot and are looking to attack first. 2. On and off throughout the games, Jt3 is employing a full court press ...again, speeding up the game. 3. Attacking the press. As time was winding down and Oregon was pressuring us, our Hoyas went straight at them and attacked the basket....leading to some critical free throws. When was the last time that happened? 4. 3 and 4 guard line ups. At one point late on the 2nd half, Jt3 went to a line up of Agau, Pryor, LJ, Mosley and Campbell...and it was effective. 5. Recruiting - Jt3 is making this changes on the recruiting front as well. Brought in talented defenders with the foot speed and toughness to stay in front of their guy. Guys who can go and get their own shot. And just landed one of the top point guards in next year's class. JT3 has been making he changes we have all been asking for and as supporters of this program, we need to let it all play out. This team is learning the new philosophy and learning how to close out a game. We still have a tendency to get complacent, but if we can address that, good things should happen. According to KenPom, the Hoyas adjusted tempo is 72.6, which is 95th in the nation. The highest they've ever finished is 168th, which was last year, and their adjusted tempo has been below 70 every year under JT3. Also, their average time per offensive possession is currently 15.4 seconds (56th nationally), which is a good three seconds faster than what their time per possession has averaged under JT3. The only time they've been below 18 seconds is last year (17.3) and in 2010 (17.6). Also, at least measured by free throw rate, the Hoyas are attacking the basket a lot more, since they're currently tenth nationally in free throw attempts per field goal attempt.
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Post by goyahoya69 on Nov 22, 2016 12:11:33 GMT -5
Really wish we didn't have threads like this.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2016 12:29:34 GMT -5
And the end game was an utter s-show - lessons not learned from the Maryland debacle. It was a great win and I'm happy for the team and staff, but you're not paying attention if that 17 point halftime lead didn't send shivers down your spine (even if it didn't bring back memories of the Davidson loss after a 17 point lead that started this whole mess). It's impossible to know whether yesterday will be like the Xavier game was last season (certainly one of the most inexplicable results of the entire 2015-16 college hoops season) or whether it's a signal that this team is different. More generally, haters is a juvenile term. Grow up. These are genuine issues within this program, and the people discussing them have as much passion for the school and team as you do. Idk about the premise of this thread, III still has a ton to do before getting off the hot seat. However, lessons were clearly learned from the Maryland game. Players took timeouts instead of turning it over, not stupid fouls without the clock running, and we took some time off the clock. Was it perfect? No. was it still too sloppy? Yes. But you don't go from the debacle that was Maryland to perfection or really even good in just six days. III and the team give us plenty to be critical about, no need to be unfair with it. Fair point on end game. Baby steps.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2016 12:31:14 GMT -5
For you all clamoring about Jt3 and the style of play...if you have been paying attention to our first 4 games....you'll have noticed a lot of change. Our style of play is vastly different then it was just a year ago. 1. He has sped up the game. Don't have an official stat as far as possessions per game, but based on the eye test, it seems to be up. Players are looking for the first good shot and are looking to attack first. 2. On and off throughout the games, Jt3 is employing a full court press ...again, speeding up the game. 3. Attacking the press. As time was winding down and Oregon was pressuring us, our Hoyas went straight at them and attacked the basket....leading to some critical free throws. When was the last time that happened? 4. 3 and 4 guard line ups. At one point late on the 2nd half, Jt3 went to a line up of Agau, Pryor, LJ, Mosley and Campbell...and it was effective. 5. Recruiting - Jt3 is making this changes on the recruiting front as well. Brought in talented defenders with the foot speed and toughness to stay in front of their guy. Guys who can go and get their own shot. And just landed one of the top point guards in next year's class. JT3 has been making he changes we have all been asking for and as supporters of this program, we need to let it all play out. This team is learning the new philosophy and learning how to close out a game. We still have a tendency to get complacent, but if we can address that, good things should happen. According to KenPom, the Hoyas adjusted tempo is 72.6, which is 95th in the nation. The highest they've ever finished is 168th, which was last year, and their adjusted tempo has been below 70 every year under JT3. Also, their average time per offensive possession is currently 15.4 seconds (56th nationally), which is a good three seconds faster than what their time per possession has averaged under JT3. The only time they've been below 18 seconds is last year (17.3) and in 2010 (17.6). Also, at least measured by free throw rate, the Hoyas are attacking the basket a lot more, since they're currently tenth nationally in free throw attempts per field goal attempt. These are all inarguably positive signs and stats.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 22, 2016 12:43:19 GMT -5
According to KenPom, the Hoyas adjusted tempo is 72.6, which is 95th in the nation. The highest they've ever finished is 168th, which was last year, and their adjusted tempo has been below 70 every year under JT3. Also, their average time per offensive possession is currently 15.4 seconds (56th nationally), which is a good three seconds faster than what their time per possession has averaged under JT3. The only time they've been below 18 seconds is last year (17.3) and in 2010 (17.6). Also, at least measured by free throw rate, the Hoyas are attacking the basket a lot more, since they're currently tenth nationally in free throw attempts per field goal attempt. These are all inarguably positive signs and stats. Yeah, prior to the Arkansas St. game, I was really excited about how JT3 was implementing the changes. Arkansas State made me think it wasn't going to work. And now I'm thinking maybe Arkansas St. was a fluke, which of course, the Hoyas will have a chance to prove against Elon, UNC Greensboro and La Salle. I remember how excited I was after the Cuse game last year, and how willing I was to write the Radford loss off as a fluke, and I'm not going to make that mistake again.
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Post by centercourt400s on Nov 22, 2016 12:55:48 GMT -5
Though that season was still considered underachievement, you are right ot was not some kinda terrible disappointment in comparison to craps like dunk city, ohio, vcu, last year etc. But because it was simply considered as underachievement, that season is simply included in the downward trend the program has currently been. How was that season considered underachievement? We were coming off an NIT year, entered the season justifiably unranked, and lost what many considered our most (or second most) indispensable player in Markel. Despite that, we beat ranked teams in Florida, Villanova, and Butler and lost competitive games against a number of other very good teams (Kansas, Xavier, etc.). We had a grand total of one bad loss the entire season -- and that one was a league game on the road (St. John's). We ended the season ranked and on the strength of our very difficult schedule, we got a top four seed. We beat a mid-major in the NCAA first round (we won an NCAA game!!! against the kind of team that seems to be our kryptonite!!!!). And then we lost a very competitive game to a similarly seeded major conference team (a team that -- and I know facts are difficult -- was higher ranked and a Vegas favorite entering the game). Was it a wonderful season? Well, no. But disappointing? Underachieving? I just don't see it. And I don't think any fair-minded person can see it. Aleutian - your logic is messing up their narrative. How dare you?
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Post by oldbigeast on Nov 22, 2016 13:18:35 GMT -5
It's always "just one win". Even if "it happens every year." But it's never just one loss.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 22, 2016 13:42:42 GMT -5
Its amazing how much credit JT3 is getting for Rodney getting hot on ill advised jump shots, blowing a 17 point lead in which he did virtually nothing to stop momentum and Georgetown playing superior FT defense. If this offense is going to continue to just produce jump shots we are going to beat some good teams and lose to some awful ones. I have a good friend who is an IU fan so I watch their games a lot and this has basically been their offense since Crean got there. I tell him every year don't get too excited because jump shooting teams can't win consistent enough to make a deep run.
There are positive signs in the right direction with pace of play and running more but not the half court offense. This team has to find a way to get easier buckets. If you take away the USC-Upstate game over 60% of our shots are jump shots and the shots that are close are usually highly contested because they are just one on one moves not products of a good offensive set. As a result we have not been good at converting them. At this point our good offense is occasionally feed Jessie if it's there great, if not whoever between LJ and Rodney has the ball when things stagnate just tries to get a shot off. The sad part is I am happy when that's the case. If Rodney and LJ just want to take all the shots at this point I am cool with it because it's better than what the offense usually produces. Luckily they are 2 pretty good offensive players and it works sometimes but why does it have to be this way? When do we ever get the other team scrambling around having to switch off because a guy has beat his man off the dribble?
All this said I do think getting Bradley and Marcus back will help because hopefully it means Ike goes to the bench and maybe he takes Tre with him. JT3 gets this season to make it right. He has way too much talent to fall flat again.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 22, 2016 13:55:26 GMT -5
Its amazing how much credit JT3 is getting for Rodney getting hot on ill advised jump shots, blowing a 17 point lead in which he did virtually nothing to stop momentum and Georgetown playing superior FT defense. If this offense is going to continue to just produce jump shots we are going to beat some good teams and lose to some awful ones. I have a good friend who is an IU fan so I watch their games a lot and this has basically been their offense since Crean got there. I tell him every year don't get too excited because jump shooting teams can't win consistent enough to make a deep run. There are positive signs in the right direction with pace of play and running more but not the half court offense. This team has to find a way to get easier buckets. If you take away the USC-Upstate game over 60% of our shots are jump shots and the shots that are close are usually highly contested because they are just one on one moves not products of a good offensive set. As a result we have not been good at converting them. At this point our good offense is occasionally feed Jessie if it's there great, if not whoever between LJ and Rodney has the ball when things stagnate just tries to get a shot off. The sad part is I am happy when that's the case. If Rodney and LJ just want to take all the shots at this point I am cool with it because it's better than what the offense usually produces. Luckily they are 2 pretty good offensive players and it works sometimes but why does it have to be this way? When do we ever get the other team scrambling around having to switch off because a guy has beat his man off the dribble? All this said I do think getting Bradley and Marcus back will help because hopefully it means Ike goes to the bench and maybe he takes Tre with him. JT3 gets this season to make it right. He has way too much talent to fall flat again. Well right now the point guards offers almost zero offensive threat. With Jagan and Mulmore you hope they get acclimated to the game and Campbell is what he is. The strongest unit has Peak at point and honestly I do t think theirs much of a downgrade in ball handling, decision. Making and point guard IQ between Peak and the others. The strongest unit had Peak and Pryor in the back court then some combination of Copeland/derrickson/akoy/mounrning + govan/Hayes in the front court.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 22, 2016 14:02:00 GMT -5
It's always "just one win". Even if "it happens every year." But it's never just one loss. Welcome to the board as a poster! Hope you continue to contribute.
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2016 14:04:25 GMT -5
It's always "just one win". Even if "it happens every year." But it's never just one loss. Welcome to the board as a poster! Hope you continue to contribute.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Nov 22, 2016 14:08:39 GMT -5
The haters are nowhere to be found. The Silence is UNREAL! OK, I'll bite. The Oregon game was a reflection of the maddening inconsistency of his teams. Great first half followed by an 8 minute junk show to start the half. Bad ballhandling and composure that we saw in the Ark St. game reared its head again with Rodney trying to dribble through the entire defense and Jagan, Tre & Mulmore all finding the corner and waiting for the trap to come. Lessons clearly not learned from the prior s**t show against Ark St. I hope we sweep through this tourney, the lightbulb goes on, and we have a great season. The reason my hopes are muted however are found in prior years successes & subsequent failures. Cuse, Xavier & Wisconsin last year, Florida, Indiana & Nova the year before, VCU, Sparty & Creighton the year before. JTIII teams always have good wins every season. What they also unfortunately have are terrible eyeball tearing out losses. We already have one solid one this year and two unexplainable losses. We are 2-2 and at the bottom of the Big East standings. Let's not celebrate until we beat Wisconsin and hopefully UNC. Then maybe the spark will have gone off and I will gladly fall on my sword to say I was wrong about JTIII (also, for the record, I have largely been an apologist until Ark ST. over the past fifteen years). lol one game at a time...apology accepted. Hoya Saxa!
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Nov 22, 2016 14:12:09 GMT -5
Its amazing how much credit JT3 is getting for Rodney getting hot on ill advised jump shots, blowing a 17 point lead in which he did virtually nothing to stop momentum and Georgetown playing superior FT defense. If this offense is going to continue to just produce jump shots we are going to beat some good teams and lose to some awful ones. I have a good friend who is an IU fan so I watch their games a lot and this has basically been their offense since Crean got there. I tell him every year don't get too excited because jump shooting teams can't win consistent enough to make a deep run. There are positive signs in the right direction with pace of play and running more but not the half court offense. This team has to find a way to get easier buckets. If you take away the USC-Upstate game over 60% of our shots are jump shots and the shots that are close are usually highly contested because they are just one on one moves not products of a good offensive set. As a result we have not been good at converting them. At this point our good offense is occasionally feed Jessie if it's there great, if not whoever between LJ and Rodney has the ball when things stagnate just tries to get a shot off. The sad part is I am happy when that's the case. If Rodney and LJ just want to take all the shots at this point I am cool with it because it's better than what the offense usually produces. Luckily they are 2 pretty good offensive players and it works sometimes but why does it have to be this way? When do we ever get the other team scrambling around having to switch off because a guy has beat his man off the dribble? All this said I do think getting Bradley and Marcus back will help because hopefully it means Ike goes to the bench and maybe he takes Tre with him. JT3 gets this season to make it right. He has way too much talent to fall flat again. Well right now the point guards offers almost zero offensive threat. With Jagan and Mulmore you hope they get acclimated to the game and Campbell is what he is. The strongest unit has Peak at point and honestly I do t think theirs much of a downgrade in ball handling, decision. Making and point guard IQ between Peak and the others. The strongest unit had Peak and Pryor in the back court then some combination of Copeland/derrickson/akoy/mounrning + govan/Hayes in the front court. I don't disagree with this at all and if it's the case then why not go with it? If Jagan or another guard need to be in the game for defense then fine, but stop having them handle the ball and try to run the offense. The offense doesn't work. If none of the PG can beat anyone off the dribble then what is the point of them having the ball. Give it to LJ or Rodney, set the pick for them cause the switch and see what happens. The problem is I don't necessarily think that Jagan and Mulmore can't beat the guys off the dribble it's just not part of the offense so they don't do it. I am sick of seeing the 3 man weave and useless passes around the perimeter as most of the offense which eventually just leads to a jump shot which you can get at any point.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Nov 22, 2016 14:13:07 GMT -5
OK, I'll bite. The Oregon game was a reflection of the maddening inconsistency of his teams. Great first half followed by an 8 minute junk show to start the half. Bad ballhandling and composure that we saw in the Ark St. game reared its head again with Rodney trying to dribble through the entire defense and Jagan, Tre & Mulmore all finding the corner and waiting for the trap to come. Lessons clearly not learned from the prior s**t show against Ark St. And the end game was an utter s-show - lessons not learned from the Maryland debacle. It was a great win and I'm happy for the team and staff, but you're not paying attention if that 17 point halftime lead didn't send shivers down your spine (even if it didn't bring back memories of the Davidson loss after a 17 point lead that started this whole mess). It's impossible to know whether yesterday will be like the Xavier game was last season (certainly one of the most inexplicable results of the entire 2015-16 college hoops season) or whether it's a signal that this team is different. More generally, haters is a juvenile term. Grow up. These are genuine issues within this program, and the people discussing them have as much passion for the school and team as you do. I'm grown, thanks. Well, there's lot of grown ups all over this world who use this word "haters." I don't think it's as serious as you think is. lol WE KNOW THERE ARE SOME GENUINE ISSUES WITH THIS PROGRAM, AND ONE OF THEM IS YOU!!! GROW UP HATER!!! LOL! People are now determining what words are grown up words and not. Silly.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Nov 22, 2016 14:15:16 GMT -5
Last night was a nice unexpected win. Back it upvs Wisconsin and we could be on to something. The systemic flaws and frustrations will not be cured overnight, but good news is good news and I for one will enjoy this. WE WON!!! ONE GAME AT A TIME!
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guru
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Post by guru on Nov 22, 2016 14:23:43 GMT -5
And the end game was an utter s-show - lessons not learned from the Maryland debacle. It was a great win and I'm happy for the team and staff, but you're not paying attention if that 17 point halftime lead didn't send shivers down your spine (even if it didn't bring back memories of the Davidson loss after a 17 point lead that started this whole mess). It's impossible to know whether yesterday will be like the Xavier game was last season (certainly one of the most inexplicable results of the entire 2015-16 college hoops season) or whether it's a signal that this team is different. More generally, haters is a juvenile term. Grow up. These are genuine issues within this program, and the people discussing them have as much passion for the school and team as you do. I'm grown, thanks. Well, there's lot of grown ups all over this world who use this word "haters." I don't think it's as serious as you think is. lol WE KNOW THERE ARE SOME GENUINE ISSUES WITH THIS PROGRAM, AND ONE OF THEM IS YOU!!! GROW UP HATER!!! LOL! People are now determining what words are grown up words and not. Silly. This is such a thoughtful, reasonable response. Thank you so much for sharing, snowflake.
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Nov 22, 2016 15:23:33 GMT -5
The haters are nowhere to be found. The Silence is UNREAL! OK, I'll bite. The Oregon game was a reflection of the maddening inconsistency of his teams. Great first half followed by an 8 minute junk show to start the half. Bad ballhandling and composure that we saw in the Ark St. game reared its head again with Rodney trying to dribble through the entire defense and Jagan, Tre & Mulmore all finding the corner and waiting for the trap to come. Lessons clearly not learned from the prior s**t show against Ark St. I hope we sweep through this tourney, the lightbulb goes on, and we have a great season. The reason my hopes are muted however are found in prior years successes & subsequent failures. Cuse, Xavier & Wisconsin last year, Florida, Indiana & Nova the year before, VCU, Sparty & Creighton the year before. JTIII teams always have good wins every season. What they also unfortunately have are terrible eyeball tearing out losses. We already have one solid one this year and two unexplainable losses. We are 2-2 and at the bottom of the Big East standings. Let's not celebrate until we beat Wisconsin and hopefully UNC. Then maybe the spark will have gone off and I will gladly fall on my sword to say I was wrong about JTIII (also, for the record, I have largely been an apologist until Ark ST. over the past fifteen years). Bottom of the BE standings? Actually, we are in first. No team has more BE wins.
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Post by lancasterhoyafan on Nov 22, 2016 15:25:14 GMT -5
I'm grown, thanks. Well, there's lot of grown ups all over this world who use this word "haters." I don't think it's as serious as you think is. lol WE KNOW THERE ARE SOME GENUINE ISSUES WITH THIS PROGRAM, AND ONE OF THEM IS YOU!!! GROW UP HATER!!! LOL! People are now determining what words are grown up words and not. Silly. This is such a thoughtful, reasonable response. Thank you so much for sharing, snowflake. Snowflake
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 15:31:30 GMT -5
I am not a JTIII hater by any means. We have to remember that coaches have areas where they are good and other areas where they are not so good. I am in the same boat as Glidehoyas in that I also have given JTIII as pass until this year.
Also, like Glidehoyas, I have to say that I continue to be confounded and mystified at the inability of this team to handle a good press. JTIII trained under Pete Carill at Princeton who was a master of passing and spacing. A press has never bothered Princeton and they have never had great dribblers or great athletes. Our players continue to pass to the corner and it's almost as though they wait for the trap to arrive. I just can't understand it, I really can't.
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