DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Nov 20, 2016 18:48:51 GMT -5
MOD NOTE: Knock it off with discussion about recruits with signed LOIs here decommitting. Do you really think posting that here is in the best interests of the program? Take it to PMs if you want to discuss.
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 20, 2016 19:20:54 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate. I think it's safe to say that there are only 7 "bigger and better" programs than GU in terms of head coach salary. Which of those came calling? I think it safe to say that someone making less than $1M per year would jump at the possibility of making $3M+ plus perks per year. Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 19:43:33 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that there are only 7 "bigger and better" programs than GU in terms of head coach salary. Which of those came calling? I think it safe to say that someone making less than $1M per year would jump at the possibility of making $3M+ plus perks per year. Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. You don't need to bring another coach in at what III is making. A lot of these coaches would come for 1/3 to 1/2 with a few years guaranteed. If they have success then we could increase it to the current level. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 20, 2016 20:24:33 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that there are only 7 "bigger and better" programs than GU in terms of head coach salary. Which of those came calling? I think it safe to say that someone making less than $1M per year would jump at the possibility of making $3M+ plus perks per year. Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. eagle answered for me. Just like JT3 came in not earning $3M, another coach would not. It's the prospect of making it with a school able to pay it. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 20:36:31 GMT -5
Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. eagle answered for me. Just like JT3 came in not earning $3M, another coach would not. It's the prospect of making it with a school able to pay it. and a long runway without success versus others that pay what we do and expect results. |
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 20, 2016 20:45:29 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that there are only 7 "bigger and better" programs than GU in terms of head coach salary. Which of those came calling? I think it safe to say that someone making less than $1M per year would jump at the possibility of making $3M+ plus perks per year. Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. Not that I want III gone but if you are gonna do it might as well higher Jaren Jackson Sr. timing wise. That ship may have sailed anyway but if you could snag Junior with a decommit that might be the only ideal scenario while maintains ties with the program, NBA alumni and JT jr. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 20:46:48 GMT -5
Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. Not that I want III gone but if you are gonna do it might as well higher Jaren Jackson Sr. timing wise. That ship may have sailed anyway but if you could snag Junior with a decommit that might be the only ideal scenario while maintains ties with the program, NBA alumni and JT jr. What? |
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 20, 2016 20:55:31 GMT -5
Not that I want III gone but if you are gonna do it might as well higher Jaren Jackson Sr. timing wise. That ship may have sailed anyway but if you could snag Junior with a decommit that might be the only ideal scenario while maintains ties with the program, NBA alumni and JT jr. What? What? |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 21:07:05 GMT -5
That was a question to help me understand your post. |
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 20, 2016 21:45:46 GMT -5
That was a question to help me understand your post. Wot? |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 21:47:11 GMT -5
That was a question to help me understand your post. Wot? Exactly, did your kids hack your account tonight? |
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 20, 2016 22:20:46 GMT -5
Except were not going to throw 3 mil a year at a mid major coach who hasn't proven anything at the high major level. Like him or not now, when JTIII got paid, he was one of the hottest coaches in the country coming off a FF and a sustained run of success that hadn't been seen at Georgetown in decades. The NCAA coaching ranks have a long history of successful mid major coaches that flamed out at the big boy level and frankly the administration would be foolish to throw several million per year at an unproven commodity. eagle answered for me. Just like JT3 came in not earning $3M, another coach would not. It's the prospect of making it with a school able to pay it. But the original argument was about whether or not Ben Jacobson would be a legitimate candidate. Ben Jacobson is not leaving where he is for a nominal raise and the opportunity to make $3 mil a year. A guy that content is only going to leave if someone makes him an offer he truly can't refuse. Of course we can offer some MM coach $1 mil a year to come here with the promise of a raise with some success. But not Ben Jacobson. Ben Jacobson is not coming here. That was my point. For the record, I am not advocating keeping JTIII at the helm should this season spiral out of control. I am merely trying to point out that Ben Jacobson is not leaving UNI. At least not for Georgetown. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 22:44:53 GMT -5
eagle answered for me. Just like JT3 came in not earning $3M, another coach would not. It's the prospect of making it with a school able to pay it. But the original argument was about whether or not Ben Jacobson would be a legitimate candidate. Ben Jacobson is not leaving where he is for a nominal raise and the opportunity to make $3 mil a year. A guy that content is only going to leave if someone makes him an offer he truly can't refuse. Of course we can offer some MM coach $1 mil a year to come here with the promise of a raise with some success. But not Ben Jacobson. Ben Jacobson is not coming here. That was my point. For the record, I am not advocating keeping JTIII at the helm should this season spiral out of control. I am merely trying to point out that Ben Jacobson is not leaving UNI. At least not for Georgetown. That's naive. If Ben Jacobson is a good coach and making tournaments at Northern Iowa he'll get tired of that. Not saying he's a fit for us or in our timeline as we need a replacement sooner than later. However, making $900k a year sounds good for a long time but I think coaches hit the ceiling with a program and realize they want more. If they don't then they aren't that competitive. I think of Fran Dunphy at Penn for many years who had a job for life there but saw that he couldn't do much more than make the tournament and maybe win a game every so many years so he went to Temple to give him a better chance of more success. For him it didn't affect where he lived so an easy move but I think someone in a smaller program will grow tired and will want to do more and if not they aren't the right person for a bigger job. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 20, 2016 22:58:32 GMT -5
But the original argument was about whether or not Ben Jacobson would be a legitimate candidate. Ben Jacobson is not leaving where he is for a nominal raise and the opportunity to make $3 mil a year. A guy that content is only going to leave if someone makes him an offer he truly can't refuse. Of course we can offer some MM coach $1 mil a year to come here with the promise of a raise with some success. But not Ben Jacobson. Ben Jacobson is not coming here. That was my point. For the record, I am not advocating keeping JTIII at the helm should this season spiral out of control. I am merely trying to point out that Ben Jacobson is not leaving UNI. At least not for Georgetown. That's naive. If Ben Jacobson is a good coach and making tournaments at Northern Iowa he'll get tired of that. Not saying he's a fit for us or in our timeline as we need a replacement sooner than later. However, making $900k a year sounds good for a long time but I think coaches hit the ceiling with a program and realize they want more. If they don't then they aren't that competitive. I think of Fran Dunphy at Penn for many years who had a job for life there but saw that he couldn't do much more than make the tournament and maybe win a game every so many years so he went to Temple to give him a better chance of more success. For him it didn't affect where he lived so an easy move but I think someone in a smaller program will grow tired and will want to do more and if not they aren't the right person for a bigger job. It's not naïve and I don't understand the point of the post. Jacobsen's record points to him being happy where he is geographically and in his current job. He's not less "competitive" because he doesn't bolt for a bigger job. I know HS coaches that couldn't be more competitive and love being HS coaches and wouldn't leave for a college job because of it. I get what you're saying but I don't understand the logic of it. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 23:07:37 GMT -5
That's naive. If Ben Jacobson is a good coach and making tournaments at Northern Iowa he'll get tired of that. Not saying he's a fit for us or in our timeline as we need a replacement sooner than later. However, making $900k a year sounds good for a long time but I think coaches hit the ceiling with a program and realize they want more. If they don't then they aren't that competitive. I think of Fran Dunphy at Penn for many years who had a job for life there but saw that he couldn't do much more than make the tournament and maybe win a game every so many years so he went to Temple to give him a better chance of more success. For him it didn't affect where he lived so an easy move but I think someone in a smaller program will grow tired and will want to do more and if not they aren't the right person for a bigger job. It's not naïve and I don't understand the point of the post. Jacobsen's record points to him being happy where he is geographically and in his current job. He's not less "competitive" because he doesn't bolt for a bigger job. I know HS coaches that couldn't be more competitive and love being HS coaches and wouldn't leave for a college job because of it. I get what you're saying but I don't understand the logic of it. Everyone in the coaching profession has a price and can be bought. It's a stereotype but usually true. I'm not saying this guy's our answer but it's easy to go target what you want. You need an AD and Admin that has half a clue which I'm fairly sure we do not. If you are cut for coaching and driven you want a chance to have the resources and ability to recruit the best to carry out your system and compete with best or you want to waste away in Northern Iowa. |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Nov 20, 2016 23:14:44 GMT -5
It's not naïve and I don't understand the point of the post. Jacobsen's record points to him being happy where he is geographically and in his current job. He's not less "competitive" because he doesn't bolt for a bigger job. I know HS coaches that couldn't be more competitive and love being HS coaches and wouldn't leave for a college job because of it. I get what you're saying but I don't understand the logic of it. Everyone in the coaching profession has a price and can be bought. It's a stereotype but usually true. I'm not saying this guy's our answer but it's easy to go target what you want. You need an AD and Admin that has half a clue which I'm fairly sure we do not. If you are cut for coaching and driven you want a chance to have the resources and ability to recruit the best to carry out your system and compete with best or you want to waste away in Northern Iowa. You can likely take the word coaching out of your argument in most cases. People take the money more often than not. But for what reason are they taking the job? The paycheck? That's not the person I want. I want the person that wants that job. And, as with JT3, that person won't be given 3 mil to take the job. They'll get an extension with a raise after a record of success. That's not a guarantee especially when a guy has a pretty lucrative deal already locked in. It's like asking a NY state teacher to give up a tenured teacher position at 125k to work without a net somewhere else for 175k with the promise of more if they're deemed successful in the short term. If you think the odds of more people taking the new job than not, we'll have to disagree. |
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eagle54
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Post by eagle54 on Nov 20, 2016 23:23:34 GMT -5
Everyone in the coaching profession has a price and can be bought. It's a stereotype but usually true. I'm not saying this guy's our answer but it's easy to go target what you want. You need an AD and Admin that has half a clue which I'm fairly sure we do not. If you are cut for coaching and driven you want a chance to have the resources and ability to recruit the best to carry out your system and compete with best or you want to waste away in Northern Iowa. You can likely take the word coaching out of your argument in most cases. People take the money more often than not. But for what reason are they taking the job? The paycheck? That's not the person I want. I want the person that wants that job. And, as with JT3, that person won't be given 3 mil to take the job. They'll get an extension with a raise after a record of success. That's not a guarantee especially when a guy has a pretty lucrative deal already locked in. It's like asking a NY state teacher to give up a tenured teacher position at 125k to work without a net somewhere else for 175k with the promise of more if they're deemed successful in the short term. If you think the odds of more people taking the new job than not, we'll have to disagree. You are not even close in that analogy. You are talking about giving a coach a shot with likely a $3 - 4m guarantee over three years. That comes with tremendous upside to the job if you have success. As much as the fear mongering continues, this is a destination job if you can make it work. We ultimately pay $3m per year which is a top 10 salary, we don't ask that you have a success rate of the schools in front of us and we have big time brand to recruit from. Anyone worried about job security should just look at how long we are carrying the current regime with no success. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 21, 2016 1:51:33 GMT -5
You are talking about giving a coach a shot with likely a $3 - 4m guarantee over three years. That comes with tremendous upside to the job if you have success. As much as the fear mongering continues, this is a destination job if you can make it work. We ultimately pay $3m per year which is a top 10 salary, we don't ask that you have a success rate of the schools in front of us and we have big time brand to recruit from. Anyone worried about job security should just look at how long we are carrying the current regime with no success. I don't think you get it. Georgetown isn't paying Ben Jacobson $3 million a year. JT3 has gotten so much money because of the Final Four, all the high NCAA bids and the early success. Is Jacobson going to leave a job he loves for a little more money and the possibility of maybe making more eventually if he has a lot of success? Maybe, and some would, but given what we know about Jacobson it seems very unlikely. And no, we are not a "destination" coaching job. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 21, 2016 7:54:48 GMT -5
You are talking about giving a coach a shot with likely a $3 - 4m guarantee over three years. That comes with tremendous upside to the job if you have success. As much as the fear mongering continues, this is a destination job if you can make it work. We ultimately pay $3m per year which is a top 10 salary, we don't ask that you have a success rate of the schools in front of us and we have big time brand to recruit from. Anyone worried about job security should just look at how long we are carrying the current regime with no success. I don't think you get it. Georgetown isn't paying Ben Jacobson $3 million a year. JT3 has gotten so much money because of the Final Four, all the high NCAA bids and the early success. Is Jacobson going to leave a job he loves for a little more money and the possibility of maybe making more eventually if he has a lot of success? Maybe, and some would, but given what we know about Jacobson it seems very unlikely. And no, we are not a "destination" coaching job. Do you think Villanova is a "destination" coaching job? Which are your "destination" coaching jobs? Initially, he would not be paid $3M, but more than he earns now. The prospect is there to be paid $3M here. Just win games in March. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 21, 2016 9:08:11 GMT -5
In our case, Georgetown will not attract top-notch proven coaching talent because that talent is already (a) making as much money as JT3 and (b) coaching at institutions generally better regarded than ours. That's not to say that if JT3 continues to underperform that we can't make a change, but it's important to keep in mind that a good replacement would not come easy. To get a better perspective of what you mean, who are those "top-notch proven coaching talents"? |
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