lda05816
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Post by lda05816 on Nov 19, 2016 17:22:12 GMT -5
Keats and Wade each have coached in as many NCAA games as JT3 did prior to his hire. They've also both won an NCAA game, something JT3 didn't do at Princeton. Mid-major coaches that are successful don't stay at mid-majors for very long. Even Shaka Smart, who felt like he was at VCU forever, was only there 6 years. Basically, at some point, the Hoyas are going to hire a new head coach with 3-7 years of head coaching experience at the mid-major level (unless they hire an assistant). Some other examples from the Big East--Ed Cooley had 5 years as a head coach at Fairfield before moving to Providence. Jay Wright had 7 years at Hofstra. Kevin Willard had 3 years at Iona. Chris Mack had zero years as a head coach. Chris Holtmann had three years at Gardner-Webb prior to joining Butler as an assistant (which is kind of weird). I realize that if a change happens it's going to be from someone relatively unproven. I just don't understand why some people think a coaching change automatically makes things better. I know it's a different sport but don't you think Tennessee football would take the success Phil Fulmer had in his time? Yet they ran him out of town. If the season goes as badly as some think it could, I'll squarely be in the camp to make a change. I just don't think it's an automatic upgrade to what we have now. |
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Nov 19, 2016 17:34:15 GMT -5
Keats and Wade each have coached in as many NCAA games as JT3 did prior to his hire. They've also both won an NCAA game, something JT3 didn't do at Princeton. Mid-major coaches that are successful don't stay at mid-majors for very long. Even Shaka Smart, who felt like he was at VCU forever, was only there 6 years. Basically, at some point, the Hoyas are going to hire a new head coach with 3-7 years of head coaching experience at the mid-major level (unless they hire an assistant). Some other examples from the Big East--Ed Cooley had 5 years as a head coach at Fairfield before moving to Providence. Jay Wright had 7 years at Hofstra. Kevin Willard had 3 years at Iona. Chris Mack had zero years as a head coach. Chris Holtmann had three years at Gardner-Webb prior to joining Butler as an assistant (which is kind of weird). I realize that if a change happens it's going to be from someone relatively unproven. I just don't understand why some people think a coaching change automatically makes things better. I know it's a different sport but don't you think Tennessee football would take the success Phil Fulmer had in his time? Yet they ran him out of town. If the season goes as badly as some think it could, I'll squarely be in the camp to make a change. I just don't think it's an automatic upgrade to what we have now. That's fair. It's not an automatic upgrade. It's also not an automatic downgrade. There are a lot of red flags post-Otto, and falling behind Arkansas State by 23 points in a loss at McDonough is another one that really doesn't bode well for the season. Maybe JT3 gets the Hoyas to turn around like Wisconsin did after dropping their opener to Western Illinois. Or maybe the Hoyas scuffle along like they did in 2014 and 2016. |
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Nov 19, 2016 20:11:32 GMT -5
Seriously, if you guys are suggesting people like McAsland or Tim Craft, you're making me even more averse to change. These aren't impressive people you are suggesting. Could one of them work out? Maybe, but I think the odds are against nearly everyone listed except Jacobson, Wade, Hurley, and Miller, and there's no guarantee any of those 4 (who are very unlikely to take the job) would be successes either. Let's look at tournament success: Ben Jacobson - 10 seasons, 4 NCAA tournaments. NCAA record: 4-4. One Sweet 16. Jerod Haase - 4 seasons, 1 NCAA tournaments. NCAA record: 1-1. Mike Jones, Ewing, Ewing Jr. and Wallace - No head coaching experience. Kevin Keatts - 2 seasons, 1 NCAA tournaments. NCAA record: 1-1 King Rice - 5 seasons, 0 NCAA tournaments. Dan Hurley - 6 seasons, 0 NCAA tournaments. Will Wade - 3 seasons, 1 NCAA tournament. NCAA record: 1-1. Archie Miller - 5 seasons, 3 NCAA tournaments. NCAA record: 4-3. One Elite Eight. Grant McAsland - First season in Division I. Scott Nagy - 12 seasons, three NCAA tournaments. NCAA record: 0-3. Tim Craft - 3 seasons, 0 NCAA tournaments. So in sum, these coaches have combined, 50 completed seasons of head coaching, 13 NCAA bids, and a combined NCAA record of 11-13, one Sweet 16 and one Elite Eight. In contrast, JT3: 16 seasons, 10 NCAA bids. NCAA record: 9-10 (9-8 at Georgetown), one Sweet 16, one Final Four. Now, I realize JT3's success was frontloaded and since 2007, his NCAA record is not nearly as good. And that's a fair criticism. But before making hyperbolic protestations that several of these coaches above would be better, look at the record. Please note, I am not saying this is an argument for/against change at the top for our program. I just wish people would look at the situation rationally, and stop pretending that the local CYO basketball coach would be an improvement. You do realize that Jacobson coaches at a mid-major in the Missouri Valley Conference, right? Even the most successful coaches at that level don't get their teams to the tournament every single year. Dana Altman coached at Creighton for 16 years and made ... 7 tournaments. Got him the Oregon job. Mark Turgeon coached at Wichita State for 7 years ... 1 tournament. Got him the Texas A&M job. I can go on and on. Whenever there are discussions like this, people are projecting how someone would do with a better job. I'll take a coach like Jacobson who has proven he can not only get his team to the tournament, but actually win games against higher seeds. Like I stated above, he has proven he can take teams with inferior talent and beat much more talented teams. To me, that is a mark of a good coach. To beat North Carolina last season, regardless of where or when the game was played speaks volumes to me. That's not to mention also beating Iowa State last season as well. And aside from that, whenever I watch them, it sticks out to me how fundamentally sound they are defensively, which allows them to stay in games against superior talent even when their shots aren't falling. They play smart and compete like hell. I'll take that all day, every day. |
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 19, 2016 20:53:27 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate.
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HoyaTex22
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Post by HoyaTex22 on Nov 19, 2016 23:24:32 GMT -5
Coming from an industry where we are often compelled to change leadership positions, I can agree that it is often a fearful situation, however I can also share that almost without exception, by the time you're thinking about a change and make the decision to do so, you rarely, rarely say wow I wish I gave it more time.
Embrace the old cliche that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. The time is now. It just takes a bit of emotional and intellectual courage to make the right evidence based decision. The hilltop hasn't always been known for making tough decisions however. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Nov 19, 2016 23:49:06 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate. How is that safe to say? Which ones do you think came knocking? His buyout would be pricey but then again, we're averaging 8,000 fans in Verizon center right now. That's pricey, too. |
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Nov 20, 2016 1:08:08 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate. You think it's safe to say? Why? Bigger and better like whom? If we're at the point as a program where we we feel like the coach at Northern Iowa - even with a buyout - isn't a realistic candidate, then we should just shut it down. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 20, 2016 7:57:20 GMT -5
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 20, 2016 8:24:03 GMT -5
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Nov 20, 2016 8:24:35 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate. You think it's safe to say? Why? Bigger and better like whom? If we're at the point as a program where we we feel like the coach at Northern Iowa - even with a buyout - isn't a realistic candidate, then we should just shut it down. See above |
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alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Nov 20, 2016 9:22:56 GMT -5
Jacobson has spent his whole life in that part of the country. He's a unique candidate and likely would pass.
Guys like Keatts, Rice or Hurley with East Coast ties? They would take this job 100%.
For the 'be careful what you wish for camp' - I'll just say that missing the NCAA's three of four years and the 2nd weekend for an entire decade isn't something I wished for, either.
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Post by hoya2x2010 on Nov 20, 2016 9:41:50 GMT -5
I get it. He loves his job and he's a different kind of guy. Fwiw, it mentions Shaka smart and Brad Stevens as comps to Jacobson. In other words, he's got his dream job...until he gets a dream job. Whether that's Gtown or not, I don't know, but if it were to be determined he's the top target, I wouldn't cross him off the list because of some quotes in a fox sports article (or a buyout provision). |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Nov 20, 2016 9:58:56 GMT -5
Jacobson has spent his whole life in that part of the country. He's a unique candidate and likely would pass. Guys like Keatts, Rice or Hurley with East Coast ties? They would take this job 100%. For the 'be careful what you wish for camp' - I'll just say that missing the NCAA's three of four years and the 2nd weekend for an entire decade isn't something I wished for, either. Wow, the season is over already? You should get that info to the team immediately, so they don't waste their time with practice and games. |
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deacon
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Post by deacon on Nov 20, 2016 10:01:06 GMT -5
For the 'be careful what you wish for camp' - I'll just say that missing the NCAA's three of four years and the 2nd weekend for an entire decade isn't something I wished for, either. Barz. We can do better. |
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Post by larrybarrett2 on Nov 20, 2016 15:51:45 GMT -5
I agree. I hate to say it, but we are there... JT3 recruits great talent and coaches them to play well below their potential. The value of a coach is his ability to get the best out of a group of players. We consistently play well below our abilities. Poor plays, poor clock management, poor set plays, lack of exposing other team's weaknesses, bad preparation. All on the coach. I was JT3's biggest fan 7 years ago. And I think that he is a great guy. But it is time to accept that he is not performing. And 8 or 9 years of underperformance is unacceptable. |
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 20, 2016 16:52:10 GMT -5
Guys like Keatts, Rice or Hurley with East Coast ties? They would take this job 100%. Keatts and Rice would take the job because no other similarly situated program would make an offer. As for Hurley, I wouldn't be so convinced he'd take it. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 20, 2016 17:36:56 GMT -5
Ben Jacobson signed a 10-year extension last year. He's making just under $1 mil per year with tons of perks and a prohibitive clause that requires him to actually pay the school large sums of money if he leaves. By all accounts, he loves his job and he loves Iowa. I think it's safe to say that bigger and better programs than ours have unsuccessfully come knocking on his door. Ben Jacobson is not a realistic candidate. I think it's safe to say that there are only 7 "bigger and better" programs than GU in terms of head coach salary. Which of those came calling? I think it safe to say that someone making less than $1M per year would jump at the possibility of making $3M+ plus perks per year. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 20, 2016 17:48:22 GMT -5
2003, if Waters decommits, would that be it for you with JT3? I'm trying to understand your rock bottom.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Nov 20, 2016 18:23:26 GMT -5
2003, if Waters decommits, would that be it for you with JT3? I'm trying to understand your rock bottom. Don't think it's possible for Waters to decommit from JT3 at this point. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Nov 20, 2016 18:28:03 GMT -5
2003, if Waters decommits, would that be it for you with JT3? I'm trying to understand your rock bottom. Don't think it's possible for Waters to decommit from JT3 at this point. Why? He could request it from JT3. |
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