SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 28, 2015 14:53:16 GMT -5
That's what I'm talking about, 3xhoya and GUMBA!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Oct 28, 2015 16:06:55 GMT -5
I'm hyped every year. So it's hard to say I'm more excited this year than I am every other year. But yet again I am super hyped for the start of the season and expect great things! This is the year! I can feel it! If I say it every year I'll eventually be right. Right? But seriously this team is going to be very good. I'm not as concerned about rebounding as others appear to be. Copeland had a 17.3% defensive rebounding % which was 408th nationally not too far behind Josh and Mikael. White had 15.3% rebounding % and Hayes in limited minutes grabbed 20.5% add in DSR's 11.6%. Even Peak and Campbell grabbed respectable for guards 7.2 and 7.8. As long as everyone contributes on that front we'll be fine. As a result of the freshmen becoming sophomores and Josh leaving town we should be improved on the defensive end and I don't think we'll miss a beat on offense.
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bamahoya11
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Post by bamahoya11 on Oct 28, 2015 20:11:24 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. To be honest, I think it touches on some things that affect not only Georgetown, but college sports generally. First, let me say that I am excited about the season to come. We have a lot of serious talent and depth, even with Agau's injury, and I think we also have the advantage of being overlooked to start the season. All of the national Big East buzz in the media right now is about Villanova, and I think that serves to our advantage.
When it comes to hype and fan interest, I think there are a lot of reasons for our decline. To have a discussion about that, I think it's necessary, in large part, to separate that discussion from expectations about the season.
I think the biggest thing about fan interest is that I think this trend is happening across college sports. As some folks know on this Board, I also follow Alabama football quite closely and go to a fair number of their games, both home and away. The student section doesn't fill up like it once did. Students get to the game thirty minutes before now to grab seats that my wife and I camped out to get for over three hours before the kickoff when I was in grad school. The stadium doesn't sell out for the smaller non-conference games, and other sports at UA struggle to draw fans unless they are nationally competitive (i.e., Alabama's basketball games are usually about 1/3 full in an arena much smaller and older than Georgetown's). And I think there are a number of reasons for this. Some of it just means that Alabama football fans are spoiled with winning and don't care like they once did. But some of it, I think, shows that sports just don't matter to people now in the same way that they did to folks a few decades ago. Simply put, I don't know a whole lot of people in my everyday life who support, care for, and cheer as loudly (for the whole game) for a sports team as my wife and I do for Alabama and Georgetown. I don't see a whole lot of people who "identify" with that team and really feel like that team represents them. When I look around to people my age and folks younger, there seems to be a greater focus on other types of entertainment where the participant feels more "a part" of the action. There's also a big emphasis on shorter duration events, with shorter attention spans, etc.
Applying all of this to Georgetown, I think Georgetown has simply experienced the decline more quickly than other larger schools like Alabama for a number of reasons. The alumni base is much smaller and more spread out. Georgetown alums don't cluster in a particular area like most state schools--they disperse around the world. Georgetown doesn't really have the cachet of being "DC's team" anymore so that it has a large number of sidewalk alumni who support the team but didn't go to the school. That means that, unlike most state schools that have fans who identify with the university out of a sense of "state pride," Georgetown relies heavily on alums for support. This factor was particularly striking to me the last time I was in DC for a game two seasons ago. It was honestly a fun atmosphere chatting with other alums who had shared experiences with me, but I didn't see a whole lot of non-alums there. I think that Georgetown fans are also spoiled in a lot of ways. The team is competitive every year, and even two years ago when the team didn't finish well, they still grabbed a couple of huge wins over name brand teams. Thus, regular seasons don't resonate like they used to. Additionally, if fans are gravitating toward wanting to feel "part of the action," few programs probably keep you more at arms' length than Georgetown. The program was, and always will be, notoriously secretive.
I don't really think that offensive or defensive schemes or, even to a degree, postseason success, really matter that much in terms of fan interest. If we went to a Final Four or won a championship, I obviously think we'd see some short-term draws of three or four years like we did in the past. But, from what I can tell, society just doesn't have as many diehard sports fans as it did 30 years ago. I think these sorts of changes in interest will affect the whole realm of sports, college and professional, and it'll be interesting to see how those who make a living promoting, coaching, and being involved in sports respond.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Oct 29, 2015 0:00:06 GMT -5
I'm hyped every year. So it's hard to say I'm more excited this year than I am every other year. But yet again I am super hyped for the start of the season and expect great things! My sentiments as well. Cant wait for the 14th. Best time of the year.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 29, 2015 8:37:02 GMT -5
Plus Jack is already in mid-season form:
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Oct 29, 2015 12:58:01 GMT -5
Thank you for this. My heart still beats fast watching this. From the moment where the 10 point come back began... I'm still Editeded I lost this game on my DVR when I moved four years ago. Probably watched the second half and OT about 20 times b/w '07 and '11 (usually after my wife and kids went to bed and I had had a few cocktails....). Still probably the most memorable live sporting event I have attended.
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Oct 29, 2015 13:05:37 GMT -5
I am also hyped every year, but I'm not an active poster on the Board - usually only come here to checking out recruiting info, news updates and game recaps. I rarely post here, but I still check every day without signing in.
As a New Yorker, still don't miss our games in MSG (preseason, SJU and BET), and try to get to another road game and one home game a year. Fun now to pass along my enthusiasm to my pre-teen and teenage daughters.
Of course I wish Agau hadn't gotten hurt, but I'm quite optimistic about this season.
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royski
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Post by royski on Oct 29, 2015 13:37:35 GMT -5
I'm hyped every year. That said, I think DFW basically hit the nail on the head. The combination of the Fox Sports move with the dissolution of the old Big East and the lack of Tournament success has had an obviously powerful effect on enthusiasm.
We arguably made the best of a bad situation with the dissolution, but that's the thing, it was a BAD situation. We lost basketball royalty types of conference rivals like Syracuse, Louisville, and UConn. Getting UConn and Syracuse back on the schedule is obviously a huge coup for the program, but it's not the same. Fox Sports has much less reach and gravitas with the casual sports fan compared to ESPN, and it's not just for the games themselves. ESPN is a relentless hype machine that promotes the hell out of their own games on a daily basis in a way that Fox can only dream of. It's been a huge hit to our status as a major tier program and conference, there's no real way around that.
More importantly, 7 straight early postseason exits will wear down the enthusiasm of any fanbase. It's tough to watch, and as we all know, it's gotten to the point where our postseason futility is a well-known national joke. That's hard on the fans, hard on the team, and hard on recruiting, where I can't remember the last time we signed a McD AA, compared to the recruiting we were doing after the Final Four run where we got 2 in the same class with Freeman and Wright. This one is the most in our control though, the team has to find a way to get to the 2nd weekend of the tournament. It's tough without a consistent pipeline of NBA level talent, but I think we can all admit that we've underperformed our talent at the Dance consistently. Really hope that changes this season.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 29, 2015 13:43:00 GMT -5
Seems like ESPN is a lurching if not a sinking ship. We may well look back in a few years and be thankful that our fate was not tied to them.
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 29, 2015 16:43:47 GMT -5
In no particular order: 1. I did not mention younger alums per se. The small-c casual fan can be of any age, except he/she is not talking about growth plates or AAU ratings. They will watch the games on Fox Sports (if they remember to find it there) and, if the stars align, get to a couple of home games and maybe even an NCAA game should the Hoyas come to their town. Given that for every alumnus/a under the age of 60, they went to school when Georgetown basketball as a big deal, but for some reason, a lot of fans didn't stick with the program. One needs only remember those seas of gray-clad kids covering Verizon Center in the Green-Hibbert-Wallace years and realize that, now turning 30, very few are actively connected through the Hoop Club or even sites like this. 2. I was only comparing FS1 to ESPN, not judging it. Yes, the slight of hand which won the rights to the name, MSG, and a contract twice as big as the sixth largest i-A football conference was absolutely a big deal. As to whether the absence of that was going to send Georgetown to the CAA or the Patriot League, it's pure fiction. I recall a few posts on this board suggesting that hiring Craig Esherick was some sort of subterranean plot to tank the program so the administration had cover to join the PL. It was remarkably silly then, and even more so in hindsight. 3. I'm not arguing metrics for millenials. If they're not on here, or SB Nation, or Rivals, that's OK, but are they connected with the program? Not with each other, but the program? Georgetown still uses some very 20th Century metrics--ticket sales, Hoop Club gifts, those kind of things, and the classes of 2005-15 are underrepresented at this point. If they aren't engaged now, they probably won't be at 35 or 40. 1. The Hoop Club doesn't really offer much in the way of benefits to active participation. What connectivity or community is it fostering, beyond a handful of receptions that you don't even need to be a member to attend? I mean, having tried to think through and work on some of this stuff for the Hoop Club a few years ago, I understand how challenging it is, especially without either the social/in-crowd draw that you find at state schools or much in the way of funding for club programming. 2. Ironically, the Fox Sports 1 deal and the nationwide availability of most every game (assuming you and/or your bartender knows where to find it) significantly decreased the need to have a club to rely on. Compare that to, say, some of the Premier League clubs in the states, whose members band together to ensure they can find a place willing to show soccer and serve booze at 9:00 am. It's a net plus on balance, of course, and merely the continuation of the ongoing trend of TV/internet availability of more and more games (and entertainment, period). 3. Aside from attendance, donations, and merchandise sales, I'm not sure how to measure "connection with the program." Viewership, maybe, although there's a high noise-to-signal ratio there. It's also an open question to me whether a lack of engagement now forestalls engagement later. Younger of alums have lots of stuff going on in their lives, and it's easy to see how basketball slips down the priority list. Those that 'settle down' and have kids may find basketball to be a good family activity later on. I know one Georgetown professor, for instance, who was not really connected to the program at all until his sons reached basketball-appreciation age, and now he's a dedicated midcourt season ticket holder. I'm also not entirely sure what a "Hoop Club gift" is - you can't really donate to the Hoop Club, it does not have its own pot of money that is being fundraised for or from. Do you mean donations earmarked for the basketball program?
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Post by professorhoya on Oct 29, 2015 17:08:50 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. To be honest, I think it touches on some things that affect not only Georgetown, but college sports generally. First, let me say that I am excited about the season to come. We have a lot of serious talent and depth, even with Agau's injury, and I think we also have the advantage of being overlooked to start the season. All of the national Big East buzz in the media right now is about Villanova, and I think that serves to our advantage. When it comes to hype and fan interest, I think there are a lot of reasons for our decline. To have a discussion about that, I think it's necessary, in large part, to separate that discussion from expectations about the season. I think the biggest thing about fan interest is that I think this trend is happening across college sports. As some folks know on this Board, I also follow Alabama football quite closely and go to a fair number of their games, both home and away. The student section doesn't fill up like it once did. Students get to the game thirty minutes before now to grab seats that my wife and I camped out to get for over three hours before the kickoff when I was in grad school. The stadium doesn't sell out for the smaller non-conference games, and other sports at UA struggle to draw fans unless they are nationally competitive (i.e., Alabama's basketball games are usually about 1/3 full in an arena much smaller and older than Georgetown's). And I think there are a number of reasons for this. Some of it just means that Alabama football fans are spoiled with winning and don't care like they once did. But some of it, I think, shows that sports just don't matter to people now in the same way that they did to folks a few decades ago. Simply put, I don't know a whole lot of people in my everyday life who support, care for, and cheer as loudly (for the whole game) for a sports team as my wife and I do for Alabama and Georgetown. I don't see a whole lot of people who "identify" with that team and really feel like that team represents them. When I look around to people my age and folks younger, there seems to be a greater focus on other types of entertainment where the participant feels more "a part" of the action. There's also a big emphasis on shorter duration events, with shorter attention spans, etc. Applying all of this to Georgetown, I think Georgetown has simply experienced the decline more quickly than other larger schools like Alabama for a number of reasons. The alumni base is much smaller and more spread out. Georgetown alums don't cluster in a particular area like most state schools--they disperse around the world. Georgetown doesn't really have the cachet of being "DC's team" anymore so that it has a large number of sidewalk alumni who support the team but didn't go to the school. That means that, unlike most state schools that have fans who identify with the university out of a sense of "state pride," Georgetown relies heavily on alums for support. This factor was particularly striking to me the last time I was in DC for a game two seasons ago. It was honestly a fun atmosphere chatting with other alums who had shared experiences with me, but I didn't see a whole lot of non-alums there. I think that Georgetown fans are also spoiled in a lot of ways. The team is competitive every year, and even two years ago when the team didn't finish well, they still grabbed a couple of huge wins over name brand teams. Thus, regular seasons don't resonate like they used to. Additionally, if fans are gravitating toward wanting to feel "part of the action," few programs probably keep you more at arms' length than Georgetown. The program was, and always will be, notoriously secretive. I don't really think that offensive or defensive schemes or, even to a degree, postseason success, really matter that much in terms of fan interest. If we went to a Final Four or won a championship, I obviously think we'd see some short-term draws of three or four years like we did in the past. But, from what I can tell, society just doesn't have as many diehard sports fans as it did 30 years ago. I think these sorts of changes in interest will affect the whole realm of sports, college and professional, and it'll be interesting to see how those who make a living promoting, coaching, and being involved in sports respond. I think there is something to it. With the quality of HD big screen tv, a lot of people are choosing to stay home or have game watches parties at home because it's more comfortable and a lot cheaper factoring in not only ticket prices but food and alcohol.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Oct 29, 2015 18:37:04 GMT -5
Just when I think I:m out - they pull me back in! HOYA SAXA!
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Oct 29, 2015 19:43:20 GMT -5
A lot of great points mentioned above but sometimes I think timing of the season hurts. The season starts and most sports fans focus is on the NFL and start of the NBA season. Also I think if we are not in a early season tournament at an exotic location the early non conference part of the season starts off kinda slow with cupcakes and empty arenas.
Unless your a die hard college basketball fan its really a month season, March, and your basically remembered on how you perform in a one and done tournament.
On another note just speaking for myself as you get older and have a family it's harder to watch and attend games. I have a two year old, I'm sure the parents out there understand.
Lastly the new big east really is a bummer. Losing Syracuse, uconn especially kills the season. Adding bracket buster mid majors just doesn't cut it.
Get a special group and hit a few final fours and the excitement level will change.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 29, 2015 20:12:26 GMT -5
You are all missing the point.
I do not care about the casual fan.
You are not a casual fan.
This IS a special group. I offer no assurance except the words of the almighty hype. And my gut. Which is scientifically proven to be 100% right.
Radford is in sixteen days.
GET HYPED.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 29, 2015 20:12:37 GMT -5
And where the Edited is MEGAFAN?
He does this so much better than me.
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guru
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Post by guru on Oct 29, 2015 20:47:37 GMT -5
A lot of great points mentioned above but sometimes I think timing of the season hurts. The season starts and most sports fans focus is on the NFL and start of the NBA season. Also I think if we are not in a early season tournament at an exotic location the early non conference part of the season starts off kinda slow with cupcakes and empty arenas. Unless your a die hard college basketball fan its really a month season, March, and your basically remembered on how you perform in a one and done tournament. On another note just speaking for myself as you get older and have a family it's harder to watch and attend games. I have a two year old, I'm sure the parents out there understand. Lastly the new big east really is a bummer. Losing Syracuse, uconn especially kills the season. Adding bracket buster mid majors just doesn't cut it. Get a special group and hit a few final fours and the excitement level will change. Except we play Syracuse AND UConn this season?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Oct 30, 2015 6:49:54 GMT -5
"Also I think if we are not in a early season tournament at an exotic location the early non conference part of the season starts off kinda slow with cupcakes and empty arenas." Last I checked, Hoyas play the Terps on November 17th, not exactly a cupcake and likely a sellout. And, have you forgottem about the 2K Classic in NYC three days later? While not an "exotic" location (well, perhaps to some it is) a tournament with Wisconsin, Duke and VCU should get your juices flowing. (If you're talking about the home non-conference schedule, point taken).
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Oct 30, 2015 8:58:18 GMT -5
"Also I think if we are not in a early season tournament at an exotic location the early non conference part of the season starts off kinda slow with cupcakes and empty arenas." Last I checked, Hoyas play the Terps on November 17th, not exactly a cupcake and likely a sellout. And, have you forgottem about the 2K Classic in NYC three days later? While not an "exotic" location (well, perhaps to some it is) a tournament with Wisconsin, Duke and VCU should get your juices flowing. (If you're talking about the home non-conference schedule, point taken). NYC is plenty exotic to all the people in the world not raised within 300 miles of it. And MSG is about as hot a destination as you can get in college hoops. Maybe you miss the mai tais by the pool aspect of playing in Hawaii or The Bahamas, but at least you aren't playing in a half full converted conference room that seats 450. Those games are great on TV, but frequently the in-room experience is more like a "secret scrimmage." I'll take a packed MSG.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Oct 30, 2015 9:02:42 GMT -5
I agree with those who say that there is a sports overload this time of year, particularly on television. Also, the Hoyas have always struggled to become the "local" team in a market where there are fewer "locals" than most major cities. Washington has a large number of people from somewhere else and many have sports rooting interests with their teams from back home. It always amazes me that no matter who the Hoyas play among the major teams, the visitors seem to have a decent/large amount of supporters present at the game. You just don't find that at Nova, Creighton, Butler, Providence or most other teams in the league. Additionally, over the years the sports market in the region has become particularly crowded for a relatively small population with the Redskins, Nationals, Wizards, DC United, Orioles, Ravens, Terps, GW, Towson, George Mason, and American in the immediate vicinity and competing for fan dollars and interest.
All that said, for a college basketball junkie it is hard not to get excited about any season, even when the talent level is down. Knowing that this year's team is loaded with potential, but very young, guarantees another roller-coaster ride. As for the "new" Big East, it seems that after two years now the league is taking root and there are signs of life in new rivalries that might still be in their infancy, but have the potential ignite the passions of the fans. I believe that the Hoyas have a good start to strong rivalries with Xavier and Butler, which have produced some exciting games in recent years. Old opponents, like Providence, have become bigger rivals now that some of the ACC defectors are gone. Traditional rivals like Nova and St. John's remain intense games. Other than Syracuse, UConn and Notre Dame who misses anyone else from the old league? Two are back and does anyone care if we play West Virgina, Pitt, Miami, Louisville, South Florida, and Va. Tech on a regular basis?
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 30, 2015 9:07:01 GMT -5
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