MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 27, 2015 11:57:42 GMT -5
I'm fired up to watch this team play. We were spoiled early in JT3's tenure with super effective offenses that were fun to watch. Now it's been 5 years since we have had a Top 30 offense in efficiency. I think this is the year we get back to playing the beautiful game -- lots of skilled guys who can pass and move and shoot. I don’t necessarily want THAT offense back. All the efficiency in the world doesn’t mean a darn thing if you had guy like Hibbert shooting a ridiculous percentage against college opponents but only taking about 8 shots a game. And what about games in which the Hoyas were shooting in the high 60% fg range in first halves but only leading teams who shot much worse by less than ten points at halftime? Or all the games in which the Hoyas shot well above 50% fg an entire game but needed the last five minutes of the contest to finish off inferior opponents? Perhaps equally as important how great was that style of play overall if its reputation lingers to the extent that many recruits apparently turn us down because of it? Personally I would sacrifice efficiency if it meant trading it in for a more aggressive offense that stays on the attack, puts opponents away much earlier, puts the ball in the hot hands as much as possible and allows the team to come back more regularly from FIRST HALF deficits. And if it is exciting to boot and makes people (recruits and casual fans) want to watch the team more then all the better. The offense of the first five years was a mostly a frontrunner offense that worked when the Hoyas were ahead and could dictate pace (a slower one). Of course a more aggressive offense could be equally efficient if you have far more fastbreaks to replace the lack of backdoor cuts, if you incorporated more drives (which could lead to more free throws too) instead of relying so heavily on three-point baskets to fall, and if you gave your capable big men more touches in the paint for higher percentage shots rather than purposely using up shot clock before looking at the basket. I think this year’s team has the potential to do well in all of those areas above but I still have doubts III will exploit those advantages that he has over his less frantic and more conservative approach. An example of exploiting his advantages is using that superior length he has in the BE to trap, press and create steals. This man seems to despise full court pressing as much as he does the fastbreak. If saying such things make me a killjoy so be it. I feel I’m being honest. Again…I think the world of the potential of this team but III must do even more tweaking of his style of play. He has made some adjustments over the years so perhaps he will make some more.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 27, 2015 12:04:06 GMT -5
In no particular order:
1. I did not mention younger alums per se. The small-c casual fan can be of any age, except he/she is not talking about growth plates or AAU ratings. They will watch the games on Fox Sports (if they remember to find it there) and, if the stars align, get to a couple of home games and maybe even an NCAA game should the Hoyas come to their town. Given that for every alumnus/a under the age of 60, they went to school when Georgetown basketball as a big deal, but for some reason, a lot of fans didn't stick with the program. One needs only remember those seas of gray-clad kids covering Verizon Center in the Green-Hibbert-Wallace years and realize that, now turning 30, very few are actively connected through the Hoop Club or even sites like this.
2. I was only comparing FS1 to ESPN, not judging it. Yes, the slight of hand which won the rights to the name, MSG, and a contract twice as big as the sixth largest i-A football conference was absolutely a big deal. As to whether the absence of that was going to send Georgetown to the CAA or the Patriot League, it's pure fiction. I recall a few posts on this board suggesting that hiring Craig Esherick was some sort of subterranean plot to tank the program so the administration had cover to join the PL. It was remarkably silly then, and even more so in hindsight.
3. I'm not arguing metrics for millenials. If they're not on here, or SB Nation, or Rivals, that's OK, but are they connected with the program? Not with each other, but the program? Georgetown still uses some very 20th Century metrics--ticket sales, Hoop Club gifts, those kind of things, and the classes of 2005-15 are underrepresented at this point. If they aren't engaged now, they probably won't be at 35 or 40.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 12:07:33 GMT -5
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Oct 27, 2015 12:28:26 GMT -5
I'm fired up to watch this team play. We were spoiled early in JT3's tenure with super effective offenses that were fun to watch. Now it's been 5 years since we have had a Top 30 offense in efficiency. I think this is the year we get back to playing the beautiful game -- lots of skilled guys who can pass and move and shoot. I don’t necessarily want THAT offense back. All the efficiency in the world doesn’t mean a darn thing if you had guy like Hibbert shooting a ridiculous percentage against college opponents but only taking about 8 shots a game. All that offensive efficiency meant a hell of a lot of success for those teams. And some huge percentage of the most fun games I've ever watched in 25 years as a Georgetown fan. And several 5 star recruits in the aftermath. More ball movement and more three pointers have been the dominant trends in the NBA in the last couple of years. Here's hoping we get back into that game.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Oct 27, 2015 12:48:58 GMT -5
DFW and MCI are clearly correct, not just in response to activity on this board in general but the metric in respponse to attendance by younger alums and students at home and away is not what it once was.. For this middle age ( boy do I despise that term) alum I don't see near the number of young Alums or students at away games and it was headed that way long before the breakup of the old Big East.
The students then who are now approaching or even past middle age today had much more of a presence back in the late 70s and 80s and even throughout many of the down years of the late 90s at away games. Over the last 15 plus years Ive seen very few younger alums or fans out on the road. When Local Alumni clubs would get a minimal allotment of 100 tickets many would go out and buy strips of 10 and 20 or more just to supply the demand today these clubs with less tickets alloted have a hard time moving tickets without marketing tickets themselves.
I can understand that the demographics of the student body has changed and is not as NY, NJ, New England baseed as it once was but i don't buy that as an excuse.
There was also a time in the 70s and early 80s when there was always a well attended without fail pre-game and post receptions at virtually all away games while this continues its not at the level from 30 years ago. What ever happened to the near riots at the old Hotel Pennsylvania after a St Johns game.
To be honest from my perspective If the whale pants wearing Alums of my generation stopped attending aaway games i seriously doubt we'd have much support on the road.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 27, 2015 13:01:19 GMT -5
If saying such things make me a killjoy so be it. You're not a killjoy because you like one style of offense instead of another. You're a killjoy because you took a thread intending to hype up the season and went all Debbie Downer. Feel free to start your own "our fan support sucks and I hate our offense" thread. We all in on HYPE here.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Oct 27, 2015 13:02:04 GMT -5
Post of the Year Candidate.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 13:20:27 GMT -5
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 13:31:50 GMT -5
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Oct 27, 2015 13:34:14 GMT -5
I call that crossover by DSR the "Simon Phoenix".
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 13:44:11 GMT -5
From the moment where the 10 point come back began...
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Oct 27, 2015 13:59:12 GMT -5
If saying such things make me a killjoy so be it. You're not a killjoy because you like one style of offense instead of another. You're a killjoy because you took a thread intending to hype up the season and went all Debbie Downer. Feel free to start your own "our fan support sucks and I hate our offense" thread. We all in on HYPE here. Fair enough. And because of the point you just made I will refrain from writing a rebuttal to Locker's response about all the five star recruits that came our way. But to be fair your post included a question in the title thread regarding where was the hype. All I was trying to explain was the direction in which it went. Next time I come to this thread I'll write something more positive.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 14:26:14 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 27, 2015 14:37:55 GMT -5
First, I will say that I am very excited for this season, and I think there are many, many reasons to be optimistic about this years team. I actually think this year is our best chance in a long time to have a great - not good, not very good, but great - team. I think we have a great combination of experience (DSR), young rising players (Copeland, Peak, White, etc.), and three freshman that seem like they'll be ready to contribute from Day 1.
JT3 in the past has shown a willingness to change his strategies. The hugely efficient offenses of 2007-2008 were also extremely slow, and JT3 sped things up in the years following (though we are still slower than average). We also have not been running much approximating the Princeton Offense in recent years, though some of the principles are still there.
While most of us would probably change certain details, I think we can all agree that winning is the best thing we can do to build excitement for the team and program. It's no coincidence that attendance surged after our NCAA success in 2007, and I think the same thing could happen if we were to get to a Final Four again. Like it or not, people turn out for winners. While it's hugely unfair, and I do not think success should be judged on the NCAA tournament alone, many people do. So, we need to win in March. This team has the tools and I think they can do it.
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Oct 27, 2015 16:12:17 GMT -5
being able to go 5-on-5 on offense for the entire game for the first time in several years is enough hype for me.
After reading MCI's post, my first thought/snark was "gee that dismantling of Pitt in the BE final (I know, 8 years ago) was sure unenjoyable." But of course that was based on great defense as well as the ball movement. That begs the question of how well this group will defend. I expect some bumps early but think we will get there.
And with the depth we have, I would like to see more consistent pressing. If Kaleb is as good as we have heard, would love to see him at the top of a press. Generate some easy buckets and extra possessions.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Oct 27, 2015 16:13:54 GMT -5
being able to go 5-on-5 on offense for the entire game for the first time in several years is enough hype for me. After reading MCI's post, my first thought/snark was "gee that dismantling of Pitt in the BE final (I know, 8 years ago) was sure unenjoyable." But of course that was based on great defense as well as the ball movement. That begs the question of how well this group will defend. I expect some bumps early but think we will get there. And with the depth we have, I would like to see more consistent pressing. If Kaleb is as good as we have heard, would love to see him at the top of a press. Generate some easy buckets and extra possessions. A defensive unit featuring DSR-Peak-Kaleb on the perimeter could cause serious problems for other teams.
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3xhoya
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Post by 3xhoya on Oct 27, 2015 16:49:25 GMT -5
In no particular order: 1. I did not mention younger alums per se. The small-c casual fan can be of any age, except he/she is not talking about growth plates or AAU ratings. They will watch the games on Fox Sports (if they remember to find it there) and, if the stars align, get to a couple of home games and maybe even an NCAA game should the Hoyas come to their town. Given that for every alumnus/a under the age of 60, they went to school when Georgetown basketball as a big deal, but for some reason, a lot of fans didn't stick with the program. One needs only remember those seas of gray-clad kids covering Verizon Center in the Green-Hibbert-Wallace years and realize that, now turning 30, very few are actively connected through the Hoop Club or even sites like this. 2. I was only comparing FS1 to ESPN, not judging it. Yes, the slight of hand which won the rights to the name, MSG, and a contract twice as big as the sixth largest i-A football conference was absolutely a big deal. As to whether the absence of that was going to send Georgetown to the CAA or the Patriot League, it's pure fiction. I recall a few posts on this board suggesting that hiring Craig Esherick was some sort of subterranean plot to tank the program so the administration had cover to join the PL. It was remarkably silly then, and even more so in hindsight. 3. I'm not arguing metrics for millenials. If they're not on here, or SB Nation, or Rivals, that's OK, but are they connected with the program? Not with each other, but the program? Georgetown still uses some very 20th Century metrics--ticket sales, Hoop Club gifts, those kind of things, and the classes of 2005-15 are underrepresented at this point. If they aren't engaged now, they probably won't be at 35 or 40. SF thanks for the post, I am ridiculously excited about the season ahead and think great things are in store for this team. I hate to respond to the so called "debbie downer" posts but these are very relevant to a conversation I just had with my five closest friends (all 04 alumni spread out over the country). One or two of them have an irrational hatred of III and would love to see another coach, I am always defending him. It was the points of the middle ground that really caught my attention. What we wound up discussing was how since the Hibbert years we have all felt detached from the school and program. Other than myself, one other is a diehard and we were shocked during this conversation to hear that the other 4 were barely aware the team went to Italy. They were even less aware that real games were being played. Also, being out of town non of them even knew midnight madness took place (yet somehow they knew about Late Night with Roy). This is where the athletic department and JT3 fall short yearly. A major part of college athletics is getting the students, alumni and general fan base involved and excited. I knew this has been written over and over again, but, it was embarrassing that Marquette's games in Europe were not only streamed but in great quality, with announcers AND archived so fans can watch later. It was a major marketing miss for Georgetown to give us grainy film streamed over a phone. There were boundless opportunities with this trip...why not get the students involved and hold an on campus contest where two winners could travel to Europe and be the announcers for the games had they been streamed? This could have really raised the visibility of the team and trip. I think going forward the major roadblock for this program is figuring out a way to get the fanbase excited. A closed door policy just doesn't work in college, you can't try to act like Belichick on the college level.
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SFOHoya
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Post by SFOHoya on Oct 28, 2015 0:48:09 GMT -5
Thank you for this. My heart still beats fast watching this. From the moment where the 10 point come back began...
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aristides
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Post by aristides on Oct 28, 2015 9:39:02 GMT -5
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GUMBA
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Post by GUMBA on Oct 28, 2015 14:09:22 GMT -5
I'm more optimistic this year than I have been in about five years. This year's team may be deeper than any team JTIII has ever put on the floor (9-10 guys are going to see minutes every night). I don't see any glaring weaknesses with this group - like starting players that struggle in a particular aspect of the game. You've got many guys who can play multiple positions and score - particularly at the 3-4 slots. Team defense is the big question for me. Losing Trawick and Hopkins is going to mean other guys need to step up. I'm hoping the Kaleb, Marcus and Jessie can really bring it on D. Bradley will need to play a bigger role and it was good to see him so vocal at the open practice with the younger guys. I kind of like being under the radar at the beginning of the year with what is a fairly young team (6 players expected to see major minutes are Freshman or Sophomores). Nobody expects us to beat Maryland, Wisconsin or Duke. So let the season come to this team. Hope for an early upset or two that will set the tone for the year. I expect at least 11 wins before we reach 2016. Go Hoyas!
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