rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on May 16, 2021 10:35:10 GMT -5
Just admit you didn’t watch both of them play while they were here 🤷🏽‍♂️ I was in the stands watching them both warm up for their first Kenner league game. Just watching Otto shoot from the elbow (with his broke form) I said right there and then he felt like Jeff 2.0 for us. With some players you can just tell. My favorite Greg moment was when he absolutely shut DJO down in the second half of a 17 point comeback fueled by Jason Clark at home. DJO was on a hot streak and we put Greg on him in the second half and he smothered him everytime he caught the ball at the top of the key trying to go downhill. Never seen someone his size with such good lateral movement at the time, it was and still is elite. People feel some type of way about him because he didn’t come through in the classroom, and they let it taint their perception of who he was on the court. That’s fine, it happens. He was super raw still at GU and was still a very important piece for us. As someone else mentioned previously, Shabazz Muhammad was no match for either of them....(did UCLA also have Jordan Adams then?). Speaking of, does anyone know where I can find that game replay?! Would love to watch it today. Trying to figure out what any of this has to do w/Yurt and I cannot... Back on track... Heat played 13 guys last night in a blow out minus even Butler and he did not see the floor... It’s hard to see the floor for any late-addition, last roster spot player in their first few games and even more so when you’re not even in the same city as your team... |
|
|
|
Post by BeantownHoya on May 16, 2021 10:37:15 GMT -5
Trying to figure out what any of this has to do w/Yurt and I cannot... Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe not quoting a post that contains a topic you don’t want to discuss might help? Nevermind, that’s some pretty far out thinking... Ah in classic Rock style it's not you derailing the thread talking about a completely different topic it's my fault for quoting your thread about a totally different topic...got it |
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on May 16, 2021 10:43:23 GMT -5
Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe not quoting a post that contains a topic you don’t want to discuss might help? Nevermind, that’s some pretty far out thinking... Ah in classic Rock style it's not you derailing the thread talking about a completely different topic it's my fault for quoting your thread about a totally different topic...got it When did I ever say that? When did I ever touch on “derailing” the thread to even go as far as excusing that supposed behavior? You may think it’s unreasonable for reasonable folks to spend one or two posts going back and forth on an adjacent topic, but it isn’t. You don’t own the board or these threads and you shouldn’t be surprised when people don’t take kindly to you trying to tell them what they should be discussing. Only my mom and my dad have the ability to tell me that (I.e. people I respect). If it’s an issue just steer clear and go about your day. Put us on ignore. Do you want an actual solution or do you just wanna groan? Are you seriously denying that it was unnecessary for you to draw attention to something that you claim you think it was distracting? Are you really trying to say that your comment wasn’t self-serving and snide? I wasn’t born yesterday... Cmon man, I get people don’t like a taste of their own medicine but get over yourself it’s not that serious and you do bear some responsibility in the situation lol. Newsflash, you’re the one that just derailed the thread and your justification is “I should be able to poke the bear and say what I want amidst but he’s at fault if he responds”. Smh, juvenile. Hold yourself accountable. Do better. |
|
|
|
Post by BeantownHoya on May 16, 2021 10:45:28 GMT -5
Ah in classic Rock style it's not you derailing the thread talking about a completely different topic it's my fault for quoting your thread about a totally different topic...got it When did I ever say that? When did I ever touch on “derailing” the thread to even go as far as excusing that supposed behavior? You may think it’s unreasonable for reasonable folks to spend one or two posts going back and forth on an adjacent topic, but it isn’t. You don’t own the board or these threads and you shouldn’t be surprised when people don’t take kindly to you trying to tell them what they should be discussing. Only my mom and my dad have the ability to tel me that. If it’s an issue just steer clear and go about your day. Put us on ignore. Do you want an actual solution or do you just wanna groan? Are you seriously denying that it was unnecessary for you to draw attention to something that you claim you think it was distracting? Are you really trying to say that your comment wasn’t self-serving and snide? Cmon man, I get people don’t like a taste of their own medicine but get over yourself it’s not that serious and you do bear some responsibility in the situation lol. Hold yourself accountable. Do better. Wow that looks like a lot of effort in that response. If you don't realize you are the most arrogant poster on this board I can't help you. Enjoy your Sunday |
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on May 16, 2021 10:47:20 GMT -5
When did I ever say that? When did I ever touch on “derailing” the thread to even go as far as excusing that supposed behavior? You may think it’s unreasonable for reasonable folks to spend one or two posts going back and forth on an adjacent topic, but it isn’t. You don’t own the board or these threads and you shouldn’t be surprised when people don’t take kindly to you trying to tell them what they should be discussing. Only my mom and my dad have the ability to tel me that. If it’s an issue just steer clear and go about your day. Put us on ignore. Do you want an actual solution or do you just wanna groan? Are you seriously denying that it was unnecessary for you to draw attention to something that you claim you think it was distracting? Are you really trying to say that your comment wasn’t self-serving and snide? Cmon man, I get people don’t like a taste of their own medicine but get over yourself it’s not that serious and you do bear some responsibility in the situation lol. Hold yourself accountable. Do better. Wow that looks like a lot of effort in that response. If you don't realize you are the most arrogant poster on this board I can't help you. Enjoy your Sunday No effort at all. There’s levels to this. And I’m arrogant because I literally made two posts talking about Greg and Otto and then I defended myself when you were being unnecessarily rude? Again get over yourself you’re being delusional. Yeah, run back into your hole and avoid accountability. It’s always a great look around here. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on May 16, 2021 11:48:40 GMT -5
Rock...not sure he was “better”. Otto was a bit more polished, better on the boards and in the passing lanes, had a better feel of the game...and whit as a frosh wasn’t quite as strong as Otto....but you’re right....he was right there. Agreed, that’s why I mentioned as good or better. Though, as rebounders they had the same ability just played different spots, and Greg was debatably much better in passing lanes. He was very active and got deflections often, there is a reason JT Jr decided to say he had the potential to be the best defender in Hoya history. Otto had a better feel, but they both had above average feel. Also not sure about strength, Greg’s lower body and base has always been more sturdy than Otto’s. Otto had more upper body strength. What I think made him a better NBA prospect in November of 2012 (?) is that Greg had the quickness and athleticism to play in the league then. And his calling card was defense. Otto was the smarter and more impactful player his freshman year, but Greg was in the same tier. And then of course Greg has certain advantages over Otto (ball handling, defense, athleticm, versatility on offense, creating for others, etc.) Obviously things panned out differently (and that’s why some are confused why folks respect Greg’s talent/game), but that’s a case where they were both averaging exactly 12 and 7 when he got suspended. I doubt he wins POY if Otto gets hurt, but he’d likely have evolved into our best player just like Otto did over the course of the season. Different players. While others do share that sentiment I would disagree. Otto was a 4 star, #37 in the nation. Greg Whittington 3 star Otto had a much more productive career at Georgetown Otto 3rd pick overall in NBA draft. Greg 4 games with Nuggets before being waived. Their whole careers Otto has been rated higher and produced much better. I also don't see Greg as this physical specimen. He's not off the charts explosive or athletic at the NBA level. Often preferred laying it up to dunking. My closest comp style wise for Greg would be Derrick McKey. Solid player but wasn't a star. However Derrick was 6-10 small forward in the 90s so had a height measurable advantage while Greg is 6-8 in 2020 at small forward (which is average or below average height at the position) We can make a bunch of excuses for Greg (injury, dropped out of school) but this is one where history has proven the Otto better than Greg supporters right. |
|
rockhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,830
|
Post by rockhoya on May 16, 2021 18:23:56 GMT -5
Agreed, that’s why I mentioned as good or better. Though, as rebounders they had the same ability just played different spots, and Greg was debatably much better in passing lanes. He was very active and got deflections often, there is a reason JT Jr decided to say he had the potential to be the best defender in Hoya history. Otto had a better feel, but they both had above average feel. Also not sure about strength, Greg’s lower body and base has always been more sturdy than Otto’s. Otto had more upper body strength. What I think made him a better NBA prospect in November of 2012 (?) is that Greg had the quickness and athleticism to play in the league then. And his calling card was defense. Otto was the smarter and more impactful player his freshman year, but Greg was in the same tier. And then of course Greg has certain advantages over Otto (ball handling, defense, athleticm, versatility on offense, creating for others, etc.) Obviously things panned out differently (and that’s why some are confused why folks respect Greg’s talent/game), but that’s a case where they were both averaging exactly 12 and 7 when he got suspended. I doubt he wins POY if Otto gets hurt, but he’d likely have evolved into our best player just like Otto did over the course of the season. Different players. While others do share that sentiment I would disagree. Otto was a 4 star, #37 in the nation. Greg Whittington 3 star Otto had a much more productive career at Georgetown Otto 3rd pick overall in NBA draft. Greg 4 games with Nuggets before being waived. Their whole careers Otto has been rated higher and produced much better. I also don't see Greg as this physical specimen. He's not off the charts explosive or athletic at the NBA level. Often preferred laying it up to dunking. My closest comp style wise for Greg would be Derrick McKey. Solid player but wasn't a star. However Derrick was 6-10 small forward in the 90s so had a height measurable advantage while Greg is 6-8 in 2020 at small forward (which is average or below average height at the position) We can make a bunch of excuses for Greg (injury, dropped out of school) but this is one where history has proven the Otto better than Greg supporters right. You do realize you’re pretty much going entirely off of rankings and there is no original analysis in your viewpoint? It would be a much stronger argument if you tried making observations about his game and not his cv. Greg was our best player through preseason that year (and a big reason we went toe to toe with a good UNC team that preseason). Who cares what they were ranked three years before in high school, that literally has nothing to do with their actual game. Otto had been playing basketball for longer, there’s a simple explanation for that. Nobody is trying to make excuses for Greg. As I said before, his choices and actions are independent of his actual basketball game. He is currently one of four Hoyas in the NBA (after blowing out both knees, one of them twice, and having to overcome character concerns, which is the biggest hurdle for the NBA), so I just still don’t understand why folks like to act like he wasn’t talented. As if Otto and Greg can’t both have been first team BE caliber players. Why it has to be one of the other. What is the point of that type of binary thinking? They were both talented and were different players with different games who both proved their worth during their time on the hilltop. Both are in the NBA now. I don’t see what is so controversial. I am getting that you don’t have the ability to contextualize and understand how one player exiting college unexpectedly during year two and blowing out both knees is different from a player who went on to finish and receive the accolades the former would’ve also received and went on to be drafted #3 overall is, from a developmental perspective. Obviously Otto has had a more successful career, nobody in the world would argue otherwise. But as far as actual talent and ability? It’s splitting hairs. You need size and athleticism to compete in the NBA first and foremost, Otto is great and all but he’s actually one of the worst athletes in the NBA from an explosion/quickness/speed standpoint. His IQ makes up for it. Greg has better positional size and defensive versatility. He’s a stronger defender and just as good of a rebounder. Has legit nba range on his three. Otto has certain advantages over Greg and vice versa. Again, they’re both good but I’ll stop there... |
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
|
Post by tashoya on May 16, 2021 20:49:16 GMT -5
While others do share that sentiment I would disagree. Otto was a 4 star, #37 in the nation. Greg Whittington 3 star Otto had a much more productive career at Georgetown Otto 3rd pick overall in NBA draft. Greg 4 games with Nuggets before being waived. Their whole careers Otto has been rated higher and produced much better. I also don't see Greg as this physical specimen. He's not off the charts explosive or athletic at the NBA level. Often preferred laying it up to dunking. My closest comp style wise for Greg would be Derrick McKey. Solid player but wasn't a star. However Derrick was 6-10 small forward in the 90s so had a height measurable advantage while Greg is 6-8 in 2020 at small forward (which is average or below average height at the position) We can make a bunch of excuses for Greg (injury, dropped out of school) but this is one where history has proven the Otto better than Greg supporters right. You do realize you’re pretty much going entirely off of rankings and there is no original analysis in your viewpoint? It would be a much stronger argument if you tried making observations about his game and not his cv. Greg was our best player through preseason that year (and a big reason we went toe to toe with a good UNC team that preseason). Who cares what they were ranked three years before in high school, that literally has nothing to do with their actual game. Otto had been playing basketball for longer, there’s a simple explanation for that. Nobody is trying to make excuses for Greg. As I said before, his choices and actions are independent of his actual basketball game. He is currently one of four Hoyas in the NBA (after blowing out both knees, one of them twice, and having to overcome character concerns, which is the biggest hurdle for the NBA), so I just still don’t understand why folks like to act like he wasn’t talented. As if Otto and Greg can’t both have been first team BE caliber players. Why it has to be one of the other. What is the point of that type of binary thinking? They were both talented and were different players with different games who both proved their worth during their time on the hilltop. Both are in the NBA now. I don’t see what is so controversial. I am getting that you don’t have the ability to contextualize and understand how one player exiting college unexpectedly during year two and blowing out both knees is different from a player who went on to finish and receive the accolades the former would’ve also received and went on to be drafted #3 overall is, from a developmental perspective. Obviously Otto has had a more successful career, nobody in the world would argue otherwise. But as far as actual talent and ability? It’s splitting hairs. You need size and athleticism to compete in the NBA first and foremost, Otto is great and all but he’s actually one of the worst athletes in the NBA from an explosion/quickness/speed standpoint. His IQ makes up for it. Greg has better positional size and defensive versatility. He’s a stronger defender and just as good of a rebounder. Has legit nba range on his three. Otto has certain advantages over Greg and vice versa. Again, they’re both good but I’ll stop there... The disconnect, likely, comes from the fact that Greg is more physically gifted than Otto and it's not particularly close. There's probably still some bitterness that he didn't turn into what he may have been able to turn into as a Hoya. That said, Otto was always miles ahead of Greg in fundamentals. If Greg has caught up a bit in that regard, his future looks that much brighter. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 16, 2021 20:52:07 GMT -5
Agreed, that’s why I mentioned as good or better. Though, as rebounders they had the same ability just played different spots, and Greg was debatably much better in passing lanes. He was very active and got deflections often, there is a reason JT Jr decided to say he had the potential to be the best defender in Hoya history. Otto had a better feel, but they both had above average feel. Also not sure about strength, Greg’s lower body and base has always been more sturdy than Otto’s. Otto had more upper body strength. What I think made him a better NBA prospect in November of 2012 (?) is that Greg had the quickness and athleticism to play in the league then. And his calling card was defense. Otto was the smarter and more impactful player his freshman year, but Greg was in the same tier. And then of course Greg has certain advantages over Otto (ball handling, defense, athleticm, versatility on offense, creating for others, etc.) Obviously things panned out differently (and that’s why some are confused why folks respect Greg’s talent/game), but that’s a case where they were both averaging exactly 12 and 7 when he got suspended. I doubt he wins POY if Otto gets hurt, but he’d likely have evolved into our best player just like Otto did over the course of the season. Different players. While others do share that sentiment I would disagree. Otto was a 4 star, #37 in the nation. Greg Whittington 3 star Otto had a much more productive career at Georgetown Otto 3rd pick overall in NBA draft. Greg 4 games with Nuggets before being waived. Their whole careers Otto has been rated higher and produced much better. I also don't see Greg as this physical specimen. He's not off the charts explosive or athletic at the NBA level. Often preferred laying it up to dunking. My closest comp style wise for Greg would be Derrick McKey. Solid player but wasn't a star. However Derrick was 6-10 small forward in the 90s so had a height measurable advantage while Greg is 6-8 in 2020 at small forward (which is average or below average height at the position) We can make a bunch of excuses for Greg (injury, dropped out of school) but this is one where history has proven the Otto better than Greg supporters right. Since I’m guilty of derailing the other thread with some love for Whittington (and I absentmindedly forgot we live in a world where the opposite of that is “bashing” 🤦🏻‍♂️) ... the love goes only so far, not into hyperbole. I know you qualified it with “style wise” but McKey was a 15 year NBA vet who averaged 12/5 when he was consistently the 3rd/4th option in Seattle (Payton, Kemp, Ellis, Schrempf) and Indy (Miller, Smits, Jackson, Mullin). Whittington couldn’t hold McKey’s undergarments. |
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on May 16, 2021 22:00:48 GMT -5
While others do share that sentiment I would disagree. Otto was a 4 star, #37 in the nation. Greg Whittington 3 star Otto had a much more productive career at Georgetown Otto 3rd pick overall in NBA draft. Greg 4 games with Nuggets before being waived. Their whole careers Otto has been rated higher and produced much better. I also don't see Greg as this physical specimen. He's not off the charts explosive or athletic at the NBA level. Often preferred laying it up to dunking. My closest comp style wise for Greg would be Derrick McKey. Solid player but wasn't a star. However Derrick was 6-10 small forward in the 90s so had a height measurable advantage while Greg is 6-8 in 2020 at small forward (which is average or below average height at the position) We can make a bunch of excuses for Greg (injury, dropped out of school) but this is one where history has proven the Otto better than Greg supporters right. Since I’m guilty of derailing the other thread with some love for Whittington (and I absentmindedly forgot we live in a world where the opposite of that is “bashing” 🤦🏻‍♂️) ... the love goes only so far, not into hyperbole. I know you qualified it with “style wise” but McKey was a 15 year NBA vet who averaged 12/5 when he was consistently the 3rd/4th option in Seattle (Payton, Kemp, Ellis, Schrempf) and Indy (Miller, Smits, Jackson, Mullin). Whittington couldn’t hold McKey’s undergarments. So we are basically in agreement. |
|
