SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,075
|
Post by SSHoya on Jun 14, 2017 5:12:56 GMT -5
"Respectfully Ed, you are making a big assumption that I am a "liberal" in the sense you are probably using the word (as a pejorative). I was genuinely curious about your position on the death penalty and thank you for your answer. And you are also making an assumption about my position on abortion - where did I indicate a support for abortion? "The new evangelization calls for followers of Christ who are unconditionally pro-life: who will proclaim, celebrate and serve the Gospel of life in every situation. A sign of hope is the increasing recognition that the dignity of human life must never be taken away, even in the case of someone who has done great evil. . . . I renew the appeal I made . . . for a consensus to end the death penalty, which is both cruel and unnecessary." -- —Pope John Paul II Papal Mass, St. Louis, Missouri, January 27, 1999 Some may infer an equivalency in the Pope's statement." SS, sorry, I just assumed you were a liberal. Are most of your political beliefs left of center? Also, care to share your position on abortion? As for the Pope's quote, I don't see any equivalency at all, just an extension of the meaning of pro-life. Do you see an equivalency? Hi Ed. I don't know if you think Colin Powell is a liberal but he is a man I have voted for as President (write in) and have great respect for. I have also voted for Republicans when I lived in Maryland at the state and local level. I don't see the labels as particularly useful because I assume you use "liberal" as a pejorative whereas I do not use "conservative" as such. Trump is not a conservative. He is a boorish ignorant human being who is unfit to be President and believe he has mental health issues, i.e., a narcissistic personality disorder. See www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-trump-making-america-mentally-ill/2017/06/13/28204b08-507b-11e7-be25-3a519335381c_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.13be80d9422fHe is also an authoritarian who is not a supporter of democratic values. Hence his love of Putin, Erdogan, Duterte and his distaste for our NATO allies. My distaste for the current GOP is that it enables Trump. Given my family history you would probably consider me more "liberal" than most on race, refugee and immigration matters. See www.usccb.org/news/2017/17-026.cfm (A matter of personal history. When my dad was evacuated out of Saigon on April 30, 1975, one of the last things he did as a CIA officer was distribute $30,0000 and an agency telephone number to his Vietnamese staff in order to help them escape because the USG did not honor its commitment to ensure their safety. His admin assistant and family managed to escape on a boat and during my sophomore year at Georgetown, that family lived in the basement of our house for 3 months after my dad sponsored them out of Indiantown Gap PA refugee camp via Catholic Relief Services. My dad was certainly no "liberal.") I am probably more "liberal" on the social safety net that I believe should be provided by government. I am probably more conservative with respective to gun control but not in the way the NRA approaches the issue. I am for a strong defense and believe Obama swung the pendulum too far in the other direction in response to Bush's foreign policy but believe Obama is an honorable man and sincere in his beliefs. Trump is neither. As for abortion, I am conflicted about that issue in the same way I am about the death penalty. I tend to favor the death penalty but as I mentioned have great qualms about its application. I do believe the Pope's statement in 1999 has a degree of equivalency in it. My reading of that quote is that those who unconditionally oppose abortion must view the death penalty, in his words, as unnecessary and cruel. That is, if you are "pro-life" you should also be anti-death penalty. But perhaps we are simply arguing semantics on this issue because if I understand you correctly, your use of the term "pro-life" includes being against the death penalty. Accordingly, in your view there is no need for an equivalency which is a fair reading.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Jun 14, 2017 9:45:54 GMT -5
SS, thanks for an excellent reply and for sharing your views and your father's experiences. I will always respect your opinions even where we disagree. We will have to disagree on the equivalency question.
Here is what I see as equivalency 're abortion: John and Sue, strangers, are in a store when one of Sue's relatives comes in. Sue says to John "I don't want him around anymore. Here is a gun. Will you kill him". John replies "no". Sue says "is it okay if I kill him?" John says "it's your choice".
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 11:12:30 GMT -5
Most of Trump companies' real estate sales over the last year are to shell companies obscuring buyers’ identities usat.ly/2slt2jjIn the last year 70% of his property purchases have been from shell companies.... In the 2 years prior that number was 4% _______________________ NYT: US Ambassador to Qatar has resigned days after Trump renewed attacking the country, which undercut State Dept attempt to calm tensions __________ CNN: Sessions following Coats and Rogers precedent in acting as if POTUS has blocked some testimony via executive privilege without saying so Welp...
|
|
hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398
|
Post by hoyainspirit on Jun 14, 2017 11:50:02 GMT -5
I know this isn't the proper thread, but Scalise and others shot this morning. Thank heaven for the Capitol police. Sometimes, I detest this world...
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,075
|
Post by SSHoya on Jun 14, 2017 19:12:39 GMT -5
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,546
|
Post by tashoya on Jun 14, 2017 21:45:31 GMT -5
In President Trump's defense, there is no basis for believing that he knows what the word "vindication" means.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 23:03:02 GMT -5
www.thedailybeast.com/even-trumps-aides-blame-him-for-obstruction-probe-president-did-this-to-himselfTrump’s Aides Blame Him for Obstruction Probe: ‘President Did This to Himself’ Trump reportedly floated the possibility of firing Mueller as a way to prod him toward exonerating the president and other Trump associates party to the investigation. The New York Times reported on Tuesday that aides dissuaded him from doing so. For Ali Soufan, a retired FBI counterterrorism agent, word that Trump is now a target of Mueller’s inquiry explains the trial balloon. “No wonder President Trump and his surrogates are getting nervous. This explains their sudden attacks on Mueller and the threats to fire him,” Soufan told The Daily Beast. White House officials are still insisting to the president that he should leave Mueller in his post. “We are all advising him not to [get rid of] Mueller. That has not changed,” one Trump aide told The Daily Beast. “It would be an absolute nuclear explosion if he did.” But some privately concede that Trump is so unpredictable—and so frustrated with the persistence of the investigation and its cost in political capital—that they’re not ruling it out. Another White House official conceded that it would be “suicide” if Trump sacked Mueller at this point, but “I’d be insincere if I said it wasn’t a concern that the president would try to do it anyway.” For now, officials are simply concerned with limiting fallout from what is sure to be a thunderous reaction from the president to news that he is personally the target of the FBI’s probe. Asked what the internal game plan should be, one senior Trump administration official replied, “Keep him away from Twitter, dear God, keep him away from Twitter.” “The president did this to himself,” the official added.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,546
|
Post by tashoya on Jun 14, 2017 23:56:27 GMT -5
www.thedailybeast.com/even-trumps-aides-blame-him-for-obstruction-probe-president-did-this-to-himselfTrump’s Aides Blame Him for Obstruction Probe: ‘President Did This to Himself’ Trump reportedly floated the possibility of firing Mueller as a way to prod him toward exonerating the president and other Trump associates party to the investigation. The New York Times reported on Tuesday that aides dissuaded him from doing so. For Ali Soufan, a retired FBI counterterrorism agent, word that Trump is now a target of Mueller’s inquiry explains the trial balloon. “No wonder President Trump and his surrogates are getting nervous. This explains their sudden attacks on Mueller and the threats to fire him,” Soufan told The Daily Beast. White House officials are still insisting to the president that he should leave Mueller in his post. “We are all advising him not to [get rid of] Mueller. That has not changed,” one Trump aide told The Daily Beast. “It would be an absolute nuclear explosion if he did.” But some privately concede that Trump is so unpredictable—and so frustrated with the persistence of the investigation and its cost in political capital—that they’re not ruling it out. Another White House official conceded that it would be “suicide” if Trump sacked Mueller at this point, but “I’d be insincere if I said it wasn’t a concern that the president would try to do it anyway.” For now, officials are simply concerned with limiting fallout from what is sure to be a thunderous reaction from the president to news that he is personally the target of the FBI’s probe. Asked what the internal game plan should be, one senior Trump administration official replied, “Keep him away from Twitter, dear God, keep him away from Twitter.” “The president did this to himself,” the official added. It's not at all surprising that President Trump will do or say whatever he has to to attempt to deflect blame or elucidation of his inability as both a politician and a businessman. The even more disconcerting part is that there's a sizable segment of the populace that will ignore all of the smoke and claim no fire and fully support every action of this man. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a wildly corrupt and inept duck. And this is our president. If he had a moral code that he was vehemently adhering to with which I disagreed completely, I'd actually feel a whole lot better. This man has neither the compass nor the intellect for a leadership position in any organization. He can, clearly, sell enough people to acquire and wield power. He's the worst informercial of all time. What that says about the level of discontent with our government is scary. I have friends that are still happy that President Trump is not President Obama. I have yet to actually have that conversation as to why. At the least, I never wondered whether or not President Obama had polished up and prepared for a meeting. Oftentimes, I'd feel comfortable in the thought that he was the most considerate, brightest person in the room. Not that that equates to much if rubber doesn't meet the road but this guy doesn't have that luxury. He's not the smartest person in, nearly, any room. And he knows it. So he denigrates those more knowledgeable than him as a defense. It's not working. He's a boor and he lacks any sense of conviction. I read Ed's posts and I respect that he's got a sense of morality and purpose. I just wonder how people like Ed can praise or support this person in any capacity. He's decimating our standing in the world and people still tick "yes" for this man. Better than the alternative? Does anyone still believe that crap? I was never a fan of either Clinton but Chelsea comes across as far more normal and sane and human than either of her parents. I'm a knee-jerk anti-Clinton but she's bright and seemingly normal coming from that family. I like her far better than I've ever liked either of her parents.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 9:10:52 GMT -5
Is this what being respected around the globe looks like?
Trump is a global laughingstock and thanks to Donnie, so is America.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
|
Post by TC on Jun 15, 2017 9:55:06 GMT -5
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Jun 15, 2017 10:30:49 GMT -5
www.thedailybeast.com/even-trumps-aides-blame-him-for-obstruction-probe-president-did-this-to-himselfTrump’s Aides Blame Him for Obstruction Probe: ‘President Did This to Himself’ Trump reportedly floated the possibility of firing Mueller as a way to prod him toward exonerating the president and other Trump associates party to the investigation. The New York Times reported on Tuesday that aides dissuaded him from doing so. For Ali Soufan, a retired FBI counterterrorism agent, word that Trump is now a target of Mueller’s inquiry explains the trial balloon. “No wonder President Trump and his surrogates are getting nervous. This explains their sudden attacks on Mueller and the threats to fire him,” Soufan told The Daily Beast. White House officials are still insisting to the president that he should leave Mueller in his post. “We are all advising him not to [get rid of] Mueller. That has not changed,” one Trump aide told The Daily Beast. “It would be an absolute nuclear explosion if he did.” But some privately concede that Trump is so unpredictable—and so frustrated with the persistence of the investigation and its cost in political capital—that they’re not ruling it out. Another White House official conceded that it would be “suicide” if Trump sacked Mueller at this point, but “I’d be insincere if I said it wasn’t a concern that the president would try to do it anyway.” For now, officials are simply concerned with limiting fallout from what is sure to be a thunderous reaction from the president to news that he is personally the target of the FBI’s probe. Asked what the internal game plan should be, one senior Trump administration official replied, “Keep him away from Twitter, dear God, keep him away from Twitter.” “The president did this to himself,” the official added. It's not at all surprising that President Trump will do or say whatever he has to to attempt to deflect blame or elucidation of his inability as both a politician and a businessman. The even more disconcerting part is that there's a sizable segment of the populace that will ignore all of the smoke and claim no fire and fully support every action of this man. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a wildly corrupt and inept duck. And this is our president. If he had a moral code that he was vehemently adhering to with which I disagreed completely, I'd actually feel a whole lot better. This man has neither the compass nor the intellect for a leadership position in any organization. He can, clearly, sell enough people to acquire and wield power. He's the worst informercial of all time. What that says about the level of discontent with our government is scary. I have friends that are still happy that President Trump is not President Obama. I have yet to actually have that conversation as to why. At the least, I never wondered whether or not President Obama had polished up and prepared for a meeting. Oftentimes, I'd feel comfortable in the thought that he was the most considerate, brightest person in the room. Not that that equates to much if rubber doesn't meet the road but this guy doesn't have that luxury. He's not the smartest person in, nearly, any room. And he knows it. So he denigrates those more knowledgeable than him as a defense. It's not working. He's a boor and he lacks any sense of conviction. I read Ed's posts and I respect that he's got a sense of morality and purpose. I just wonder how people like Ed can praise or support this person in any capacity. He's decimating our standing in the world and people still tick "yes" for this man. Better than the alternative? Does anyone still believe that crap? I was never a fan of either Clinton but Chelsea comes across as far more normal and sane and human than either of her parents. I'm a knee-jerk anti-Clinton but she's bright and seemingly normal coming from that family. I like her far better than I've ever liked either of her parents. Guess you never read what I have said about Trump.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 11:56:00 GMT -5
I know this isn't the proper thread, but Scalise and others shot this morning. Thank heaven for the Capitol police. Sometimes, I detest this world... One of the Capitol Police officers who heroically saved many Republican lives yesterday was a married lesbian of color.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 17:02:53 GMT -5
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Jun 15, 2017 18:59:35 GMT -5
I know this isn't the proper thread, but Scalise and others shot this morning. Thank heaven for the Capitol police. Sometimes, I detest this world... One of the Capitol Police officers who heroically saved many Republican lives yesterday was a married lesbian of color. Why is this important? She is an American.
|
|
hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,219
|
Post by hoya9797 on Jun 15, 2017 22:21:18 GMT -5
One of the Capitol Police officers who heroically saved many Republican lives yesterday was a married lesbian of color. Why is this important? She is an American. Because the people whose lives she saved would prefer that she didn't exist. Irony.
|
|
SaxaCD
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,402
|
Post by SaxaCD on Jun 16, 2017 0:34:50 GMT -5
Why is this important? She is an American. Because the people whose lives she saved would prefer that she didn't exist. Irony. Wow, didn't realize you polled those guys on the baseball field about that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2017 11:07:53 GMT -5
Bad news for Rosenstein. Guess we can officially drop the "he's not under investigation" line since Trump just confirmed it......
Surely there has to be something more important for a President to do than take to twitter to vent every morning. Anyways speaking of people who told Trump to fire Comey ....
________________
Your friendly reminder the President's unqualified son in law committed a felony by lying on his SF86 and also has not denied trying to set up a covert communication inside the Russian embassy to communicate with the Russians behind the American people's back...
|
|
Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
|
Post by Elvado on Jun 16, 2017 11:32:41 GMT -5
SS, thanks for an excellent reply and for sharing your views and your father's experiences. I will always respect your opinions even where we disagree. We will have to disagree on the equivalency question. Here is what I see as equivalency 're abortion: John and Sue, strangers, are in a store when one of Sue's relatives comes in. Sue says to John "I don't want him around anymore. Here is a gun. Will you kill him". John replies "no". Sue says "is it okay if I kill him?" John says "it's your choice". As a very wise man once said, "it seems that everyone who favors abortion rights has already been born..." I am firmly Pro-choice as a constitutional matter while being completely anti-abortion as a human life matter.
|
|
tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,546
|
Post by tashoya on Jun 16, 2017 23:25:24 GMT -5
It's not at all surprising that President Trump will do or say whatever he has to to attempt to deflect blame or elucidation of his inability as both a politician and a businessman. The even more disconcerting part is that there's a sizable segment of the populace that will ignore all of the smoke and claim no fire and fully support every action of this man. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a wildly corrupt and inept duck. And this is our president. If he had a moral code that he was vehemently adhering to with which I disagreed completely, I'd actually feel a whole lot better. This man has neither the compass nor the intellect for a leadership position in any organization. He can, clearly, sell enough people to acquire and wield power. He's the worst informercial of all time. What that says about the level of discontent with our government is scary. I have friends that are still happy that President Trump is not President Obama. I have yet to actually have that conversation as to why. At the least, I never wondered whether or not President Obama had polished up and prepared for a meeting. Oftentimes, I'd feel comfortable in the thought that he was the most considerate, brightest person in the room. Not that that equates to much if rubber doesn't meet the road but this guy doesn't have that luxury. He's not the smartest person in, nearly, any room. And he knows it. So he denigrates those more knowledgeable than him as a defense. It's not working. He's a boor and he lacks any sense of conviction. I read Ed's posts and I respect that he's got a sense of morality and purpose. I just wonder how people like Ed can praise or support this person in any capacity. He's decimating our standing in the world and people still tick "yes" for this man. Better than the alternative? Does anyone still believe that crap? I was never a fan of either Clinton but Chelsea comes across as far more normal and sane and human than either of her parents. I'm a knee-jerk anti-Clinton but she's bright and seemingly normal coming from that family. I like her far better than I've ever liked either of her parents. Guess you never read what I have said about Trump. Ed, I do and have read your posts. In fact, I make a point to do so because, while we disagree on many things, I appreciate that you've opened up a bit and explain your positions more now. And I really appreciate that you do that. I understand that a good percentage of our people agree with what Trump professes (today) that he's in favor of. And I get that he's a voice that people support as a result of that. But he undercuts himself at every turn because he has no moral code and no intractable set of values. He's a horrible used car salesman and, while he's a businessman, he's not the dealmaker that people, somehow, seem to think he is. He never has been. He's an ass and a stupid one at that. He has no definable morality. He's a hateful, compulsive liar. And, while I get that he's given voice to concerns and gripes of a large segment of us, he'd abandon all of it if the opinion polls or money was right. You strike me as a considerate person with a well defined set of values. While some of them may be different than my own (probably not as many as you may think), I get why you'd have some "thank you" moments with what Trump voiced early on. What I don't get is his waffling and lying and hatred not taking precedent over those initial impressions or, at the least, a severe deterioration in your confidence in his ability or desire to actually do anything. He's done nearly none of what he's promised so far and is even getting flak from people that, essentially, have sold their political souls and exposed themselves as the modern version of politicians to support him. Paul Ryan used to be a bit of a nut. He's now a joke. The list is long and #sad. But Trump's voters seem to be stretching the bounds of justifying the cognitive dissonance of who they voted for and who he is. That part I really don't get in the least. The corruption optics should be enough to question his legitimacy. The actual inquiries don't seem to register at all with people who agree with what he says from time to time. But he's not tied to anything he says. But what he says isn't a reflection of a man that considers things and forms an opinion. They're just crap spilling out of the mouth of a person trying to be popular. We have a president that isn't interested in intelligence briefings and has actually said that he knows more than career military people about international relations and national security. He's an idiot. Plain and simple. That's more important than what he says he believes because no one knows what he believes. He has no conviction other than "winning" in whatever sense he means today. That'll probably change tomorrow. He's Charlie Sheen. But less honest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 11:26:17 GMT -5
www.thedailybeast.com/even-trumps-aides-blame-him-for-obstruction-probe-president-did-this-to-himselfTrump’s Aides Blame Him for Obstruction Probe: ‘President Did This to Himself’ Trump reportedly floated the possibility of firing Mueller as a way to prod him toward exonerating the president and other Trump associates party to the investigation. The New York Times reported on Tuesday that aides dissuaded him from doing so. For Ali Soufan, a retired FBI counterterrorism agent, word that Trump is now a target of Mueller’s inquiry explains the trial balloon. “No wonder President Trump and his surrogates are getting nervous. This explains their sudden attacks on Mueller and the threats to fire him,” Soufan told The Daily Beast. White House officials are still insisting to the president that he should leave Mueller in his post. “We are all advising him not to [get rid of] Mueller. That has not changed,” one Trump aide told The Daily Beast. “It would be an absolute nuclear explosion if he did.” But some privately concede that Trump is so unpredictable—and so frustrated with the persistence of the investigation and its cost in political capital—that they’re not ruling it out. Another White House official conceded that it would be “suicide” if Trump sacked Mueller at this point, but “I’d be insincere if I said it wasn’t a concern that the president would try to do it anyway.” For now, officials are simply concerned with limiting fallout from what is sure to be a thunderous reaction from the president to news that he is personally the target of the FBI’s probe. Asked what the internal game plan should be, one senior Trump administration official replied, “Keep him away from Twitter, dear God, keep him away from Twitter.” “The president did this to himself,” the official added. It's not at all surprising that President Trump will do or say whatever he has to to attempt to deflect blame or elucidation of his inability as both a politician and a businessman. The even more disconcerting part is that there's a sizable segment of the populace that will ignore all of the smoke and claim no fire and fully support every action of this man. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a wildly corrupt and inept duck. And this is our president. If he had a moral code that he was vehemently adhering to with which I disagreed completely, I'd actually feel a whole lot better. This man has neither the compass nor the intellect for a leadership position in any organization. He can, clearly, sell enough people to acquire and wield power. He's the worst informercial of all time. What that says about the level of discontent with our government is scary. I have friends that are still happy that President Trump is not President Obama. I have yet to actually have that conversation as to why. At the least, I never wondered whether or not President Obama had polished up and prepared for a meeting. Oftentimes, I'd feel comfortable in the thought that he was the most considerate, brightest person in the room. Not that that equates to much if rubber doesn't meet the road but this guy doesn't have that luxury. He's not the smartest person in, nearly, any room. And he knows it. So he denigrates those more knowledgeable than him as a defense. It's not working. He's a boor and he lacks any sense of conviction. I read Ed's posts and I respect that he's got a sense of morality and purpose. I just wonder how people like Ed can praise or support this person in any capacity. He's decimating our standing in the world and people still tick "yes" for this man. Better than the alternative? Does anyone still believe that crap? I was never a fan of either Clinton but Chelsea comes across as far more normal and sane and human than either of her parents. I'm a knee-jerk anti-Clinton but she's bright and seemingly normal coming from that family. I like her far better than I've ever liked either of her parents. Imo it's a reaction that allows the person to absolve themselves from burden of voting or supporting an incompetent unqualified bore. It's a comment that means nothing but brings people back to their comfort level and they get to troll "libtards" also. Win/win... Remember when people tried to explain away the last Presidents shortcomings by saying "Well Mitt Romney was worse?" What are your thought on Obama's ME foreign policy? Mitt Romney was worse....
|
|