EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 22, 2017 19:19:06 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. Yet, not a positive word from the anti-Trumpers on this board. I am so surprised.
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on May 22, 2017 19:44:52 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. This is dumb. Trump literally gave the Russians classified Israeli information without their permission in the past 2 weeks, do you actually think they're happy with the US right now? Also, "forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries"? He sold Saudi Arabia bombs that'll likely be used to commit wars crimes in Yemen, but they let Trump participate in a sward dance and touch an orb, so things are clearly different now...
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 22, 2017 20:32:47 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. Yet, not a positive word from the anti-Trumpers on this board. I am so surprised. You do mean Israel as in the country from which we received the intel that Trump leaked to the Russians? I'm sure that's fostering all sorts of goodwill and trust. You can rail against all of us who think Trump is a disaster and talk about how we don't acknowledge his (exceedingly few, if any) victories but your ability to completely ignore his gaffes, mistakes, egregious lying and criminal or near-criminal actions is a unique gift.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 23, 2017 6:05:00 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. Yet, not a positive word from the anti-Trumpers on this board. I am so surprised. You do mean Israel as in the country from which we received the intel that Trump leaked to the Russians? I'm sure that's fostering all sorts of goodwill and trust. You can rail against all of us who think Trump is a disaster and talk about how we don't acknowledge his (exceedingly few, if any) victories but your ability to completely ignore his gaffes, mistakes, egregious lying and criminal or near-criminal actions is a unique gift. Which Trump confirmed in front of the world press. www.weeklystandard.com/trump-denies-he-named-israel-as-source-of-isis-intel.-two-problems-with-that./article/2008163
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TC
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Post by TC on May 23, 2017 12:30:27 GMT -5
Is there a difference between Hannity and Alex Jones at this point?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 23, 2017 15:23:29 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. Yet, not a positive word from the anti-Trumpers on this board. I am so surprised. You do mean Israel as in the country from which we received the intel that Trump leaked to the Russians? I'm sure that's fostering all sorts of goodwill and trust. You can rail against all of us who think Trump is a disaster and talk about how we don't acknowledge his (exceedingly few, if any) victories but your ability to completely ignore his gaffes, mistakes, egregious lying and criminal or near-criminal actions is a unique gift. I will take Netanyahu's opinion before yours regarding our relations with Israel.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 23, 2017 15:31:14 GMT -5
Meanwhile President Trump is bringing new life to the U.S./Israeli relationship and is forging an alliance with large numbers of Middle Eastern countries to fight terrorism and oppose Iran. Yet, not a positive word from the anti-Trumpers on this board. I am so surprised. You do mean Israel as in the country from which we received the intel that Trump leaked to the Russians? I'm sure that's fostering all sorts of goodwill and trust. You can rail against all of us who think Trump is a disaster and talk about how we don't acknowledge his (exceedingly few, if any) victories but your ability to completely ignore his gaffes, mistakes, egregious lying and criminal or near-criminal actions is a unique gift. Quite the contrary. I seriously doubt Trump will ever be able to effectively administer the duties of the presidency. He has insufficient self discipline. He has demonstrated he is not trustworthy and shows an inability to control his emotions. It is too bad because I support much of his agenda. I also think he hit a home run in his trip to Saudi Arabia and Israel.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on May 23, 2017 17:02:27 GMT -5
You do mean Israel as in the country from which we received the intel that Trump leaked to the Russians? I'm sure that's fostering all sorts of goodwill and trust. You can rail against all of us who think Trump is a disaster and talk about how we don't acknowledge his (exceedingly few, if any) victories but your ability to completely ignore his gaffes, mistakes, egregious lying and criminal or near-criminal actions is a unique gift. Quite the contrary. I seriously doubt Trump will ever be able to effectively administer the duties of the presidency. He has insufficient self discipline. He has demonstrated he is not trustworthy and shows an inability to control his emotions. It is too bad because I support much of his agenda. I also think he hit a home run in his trip to Saudi Arabia and Israel. I'll give him a double, sliding into second with his spikes flying to just beat the throw. It appears that he didn't make a fool of himself, so that's a good thing. Despite what you might think, I honestly don't want Trump to screw up. You have to know, though, that Israel is not going to publicly admonish him for his colossal gaffe. I wouldn't have minded being a fly on the wall for his meeting with Netanyahu, however.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 23, 2017 18:59:55 GMT -5
Here's what Netanyahu said about Trump's work in the Middle East:
"But for the first time in many years -- and, Mr. President, for the first time in my lifetime -- I see a real hope for change."
Doesn't sound like a lukewarm endorsement to me.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 23, 2017 19:08:31 GMT -5
“Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law. It is a legal impossibility. As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics. However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime. It’s just not there. Maybe it should be. Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns. But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election. Or any election, for that matter.” www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.html
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ksf42001
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Post by ksf42001 on May 23, 2017 19:23:48 GMT -5
“Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law. It is a legal impossibility. As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics. However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime. It’s just not there. Maybe it should be. Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns. But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election. Or any election, for that matter.” www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.htmlI also like to get my legal opinions from former Court TV anchors.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 23, 2017 20:29:09 GMT -5
“Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law. It is a legal impossibility. As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics. However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime. It’s just not there. Maybe it should be. Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns. But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election. Or any election, for that matter.” www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.htmlJarrett is correct that collusion is not a crime. I posted this link in an earlier discussion on Trump/Russia regarding collusion: www.lawfareblog.com/course-theres-evidence-trump-colluded-russian-intelligenceHe offers nothing new about the difficulty of prosecuting an obstruction of justice case. (I think there's a reason he ended up on TV and does not practice law). For a more in depth analysis with actual reasoning pro/con written by a former AUSA who was Chief of the Public Corruption/Govt Fraud section in the USAO for the District of Columbia: sidebarsblog.com/2017/05/15/did-president-trump-obstruct-justice/Rosenstein's order appointing Mueller under 28 CFR Section 600 special counsel states: (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. . . . . I guess Jarrett has never heard of 18 USC 1001 (false statements, Flynn in his interview with the FBI and his SF-86, Kushner on his SF-86), criminal violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the Logan Act (never prosecuted as far as I know but if there's a case calling for it, perhaps Flynn's discussion of sanctions prior to assuming office might be the case)? (I already commented on the potential FARA and Logan Act criminal violations earlier). These are the obvious potential federal crimes that may arise from the investigation. When you look at the financial relationships between Russian oligarchs, Trump, Kushner, Manafort, Page there are other potential federal crimes such as money laundering. Remember that SSCI is getting records from Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) of the Treasury Dept. regarding Trump/Russia investigation which will undoubtedly be available to Mueller. Follow the money. Trump is quite familiar with money laundering: www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-longContrary to Jarrett's opinion, there are other potential federal crimes for Mueller to prosecute. Either he is not familiar with or understand the scope of the appointing order or he is simply choosing to ignore the other potential federal crimes that Mueller can prosecute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 21:11:14 GMT -5
Interesting that the Fox News crowd has changed their tune. A couple of days ago, the rallying cry was "There was no collusion!" Now it's "Collusion isn't a crime!" If there was no collusion, why does the criminality of collusion matter?
And talk about lowering the bar. I can get fired from my job for all manner of things that aren't crimes. Lawyers can be disbarred for things that aren't crimes. Members of the military can be discharged for things that aren't crimes. Christ, there's even a category of things called "conduct unbecoming a federal employee" for which people can be disciplined and fired. And Donald Trump is now a federal employee (even if he only considers it to be a side gig).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2017 21:13:58 GMT -5
Here's what Netanyahu said about Trump's work in the Middle East: "But for the first time in many years -- and, Mr. President, for the first time in my lifetime -- I see a real hope for change." Doesn't sound like a lukewarm endorsement to me. I'm pretty sure almost every mainstream media outlet reported this quote. From what I've been told, that makes it Fake News. Sorry easyed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 6:20:29 GMT -5
So Republicans who I think are supposed to care about the integrity of our elections and National Security, are cool with Russia openly supporting and acting like a Super Pac for a Presidential Candidate? Alrighty then something something America First Foolish to think these things won't have an effect no matter what people say publicly to coddle a narcissist... And Article breaking down why Trumps properties are a spies wet dream. The team of investigators knows it can be done in minutes, because they literally went there and did it in minutes..... Seems to be a lot of articles recently on this Administrations inability to keep classified information classified. I hear the handling of classified information used to be a major issue in these parts.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 24, 2017 8:37:41 GMT -5
“Robert Mueller is tasked with finding a crime that does not exist in the law. It is a legal impossibility. As special counsel, Mueller can engage in all manner of spectacular jurisprudential gymnastics. However, it will not change the fact that colluding with Russia is not, under America’s criminal codes, a crime. It’s just not there. Maybe it should be. Perhaps someday Congress will pass a law criminalizing such conduct in political campaigns. But for now, there is not a single statute outlawing collaboration with a foreign government in a U.S. presidential election. Or any election, for that matter.” www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/05/23/gregg-jarrett-what-is-robert-mueller-investigating-since-collusion-is-not-crime.htmlJarrett is correct that collusion is not a crime. I posted this link in an earlier discussion on Trump/Russia regarding collusion: www.lawfareblog.com/course-theres-evidence-trump-colluded-russian-intelligenceHe offers nothing new about the difficulty of prosecuting an obstruction of justice case. (I think there's a reason he ended up on TV and does not practice law). For a more in depth analysis with actual reasoning pro/con written by a former AUSA who was Chief of the Public Corruption/Govt Fraud section in the USAO for the District of Columbia: sidebarsblog.com/2017/05/15/did-president-trump-obstruct-justice/Rosenstein's order appointing Mueller under 28 CFR Section 600 special counsel states: (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. . . . . I guess Jarrett has never heard of 18 USC 1001 (false statements, Flynn in his interview with the FBI and his SF-86, Kushner on his SF-86), criminal violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the Logan Act (never prosecuted as far as I know but if there's a case calling for it, perhaps Flynn's discussion of sanctions prior to assuming office might be the case)? (I already commented on the potential FARA and Logan Act criminal violations earlier). These are the obvious potential federal crimes that may arise from the investigation. When you look at the financial relationships between Russian oligarchs, Trump, Kushner, Manafort, Page there are other potential federal crimes such as money laundering. Remember that SSCI is getting records from Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) of the Treasury Dept. regarding Trump/Russia investigation which will undoubtedly be available to Mueller. Follow the money. Trump is quite familiar with money laundering: www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-longContrary to Jarrett's opinion, there are other potential federal crimes for Mueller to prosecute. Either he is not familiar with or understand the scope of the appointing order or he is simply choosing to ignore the other potential federal crimes that Mueller can prosecute. Two comments. First, you lawyers can spout stanza and verse about what collusion is or is not but the American people, those unwashed masses, don't know that. All they know is that writers and announcers keep saying Mueller and Congress are looking for collusion between Trump and the Russians and, if they find it, he's toast. Second, it is very unfortunate Mueller was give this vast authority. See Ken Starr. And be careful what you wish for. If he conducts an honest investigation, the intelligence community might find itself being exposed further for violating laws. It may reach back into the Obama administration. It's not just the Trumps that might be exposed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 9:02:18 GMT -5
...the American people, those unwashed masses, don't know that... Thank you for your elitist perspective.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 24, 2017 9:12:49 GMT -5
Second, it is very unfortunate Mueller was give this vast authority. See Ken Starr. And be careful what you wish for. If he conducts an honest investigation, the intelligence community might find itself being exposed further for violating laws. It may reach back into the Obama administration. It's not just the Trumps that might be exposed. Shorter Ed: "You guys might be sorry about investigating Russian treason because Mueller might ignore all of that and try to nail President Obama for chewing gum or using Grey Poupon!" I think that's very, very doubtful on just about every angle.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 24, 2017 9:40:06 GMT -5
Jarrett is correct that collusion is not a crime. I posted this link in an earlier discussion on Trump/Russia regarding collusion: www.lawfareblog.com/course-theres-evidence-trump-colluded-russian-intelligenceHe offers nothing new about the difficulty of prosecuting an obstruction of justice case. (I think there's a reason he ended up on TV and does not practice law). For a more in depth analysis with actual reasoning pro/con written by a former AUSA who was Chief of the Public Corruption/Govt Fraud section in the USAO for the District of Columbia: sidebarsblog.com/2017/05/15/did-president-trump-obstruct-justice/Rosenstein's order appointing Mueller under 28 CFR Section 600 special counsel states: (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters. . . . . I guess Jarrett has never heard of 18 USC 1001 (false statements, Flynn in his interview with the FBI and his SF-86, Kushner on his SF-86), criminal violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, the Logan Act (never prosecuted as far as I know but if there's a case calling for it, perhaps Flynn's discussion of sanctions prior to assuming office might be the case)? (I already commented on the potential FARA and Logan Act criminal violations earlier). These are the obvious potential federal crimes that may arise from the investigation. When you look at the financial relationships between Russian oligarchs, Trump, Kushner, Manafort, Page there are other potential federal crimes such as money laundering. Remember that SSCI is getting records from Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) of the Treasury Dept. regarding Trump/Russia investigation which will undoubtedly be available to Mueller. Follow the money. Trump is quite familiar with money laundering: www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-longContrary to Jarrett's opinion, there are other potential federal crimes for Mueller to prosecute. Either he is not familiar with or understand the scope of the appointing order or he is simply choosing to ignore the other potential federal crimes that Mueller can prosecute. Two comments. First, you lawyers can spout stanza and verse about what collusion is or is not but the American people, those unwashed masses, don't know that. All they know is that writers and announcers keep saying Mueller and Congress are looking for collusion between Trump and the Russians and, if they find it, he's toast. Second, it is very unfortunate Mueller was give this vast authority. See Ken Starr. And be careful what you wish for. If he conducts an honest investigation, the intelligence community might find itself being exposed further for violating laws. It may reach back into the Obama administration. It's not just the Trumps that might be exposed. Ed, if there is evidence of collusion that's where impeachment comes in -- it's a political act, not a legal one at the end of the day. And if there is such evidence, even the GOP will be abandoning Trump. Please identify the violations of law by the IC under the Obama Administration. Having worked in the field from 2006 until my retirement in 2014 (across both administrations) I'm not certain what you are referring to. I have no doubt you were cheering on Ken Starr back in the day. What started off as a financial investigation (Whitewater) morphed into a sex investigation and obstruction case. Here, the stakes are much higher even assuming no collusion. There may be a level of financial corruption involving Russian interests aside from the covert interference with the US election. But I guess that doesn't concern you one bit. Da or nyet, Ed?
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 24, 2017 12:36:46 GMT -5
SS, correct me if I am wrong but doesn't impeachment and conviction have to involve high crimes and misdemeanors?
As for your second point, maybe the IC spied on Trump associates for political purposes. I have heard the NSA admitted late last year it had violated FISA rules in spying on someone(s).
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