SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 15, 2017 19:10:11 GMT -5
Indeed he does; however, prior to declassification it is the usual practice to have the originating agency weigh in on the merits of declassification, aka OADR (originating agency determination required) which is typically stamped on most classified documents. A prudent President would undertake such a declassification in a measured, deliberate manner and not blurt it out to the Russians in his office. This is especially true where third-party country/ally was the source of the information. Intel sharing is done pursuant to agreements with the other country's intelligence service. This is another example of Trump's impulsive nature and his ignorance and/or contempt of government. At a lower levels in the USIC (i.e., the level at which I was working), there are particular rules for dissemination, which is a term of art in the USIC. Classified information may be disseminated depending upon the nature and level of classification of the information, the reason sought for the release, and to whom it may be released. A very simple example of a release of classified information collected through electronic surveillance in a foreign counterintelligence investigation (FCI) disclosed a crime either committed or about to be committed not necessarily related to the FCI, that information may be declassed and disseminated to local law enforcement authorities. Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Ed, did you read the article? It states quite clearly that the President has that authority. Can you offer a reasonable explanation for what Trump did?
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 15, 2017 19:11:22 GMT -5
Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Ed, did you read the article? It stays quite clearly that the President has that authority. Can you offer a reasonable explanation for what Trump did? SS, thank you for this gem. That was hilarious.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 15, 2017 19:14:48 GMT -5
Ed, did you read the article? It stays quite clearly that the President has that authority. Can you offer a reasonable explanation for what Trump did? SS, thank you for this gem. That was hilarious. Actually similar to McMaster's no questions statement to the press where he denied that no sources and methods were disclosed (the Post did not so allege) and that no ongoing military operation was disclosed (the Post did not allege that either). It's a classic non-denial denial. Sadly, Trump corrupts and taints seemingly everyone he comes in contact with.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 15, 2017 19:19:15 GMT -5
SS, thank you for this gem. That was hilarious. Actually similar to McMaster's no questions statement to the press where he denied that no sources and methods were disclosed (the Post did not so allege) and that no ongoing military operation was disclosed (the Post did not allege that either). It's a classic non-denial denial. Sadly, Trump corrupts and taints seemingly everyone he comes in contact with. My apologies. I was unclear. The funny part was asking Ed for a reasonable explanation. He's said more than once in the past that he doesn't owe anyone an explanation of his thoughts. On a message board on which he's posting and participating. Perplexing. As always, thank you for the content and perspective.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 15, 2017 19:23:53 GMT -5
Actually similar to McMaster's no questions statement to the press where he denied that no sources and methods were disclosed (the Post did not so allege) and that no ongoing military operation was disclosed (the Post did not allege that either). It's a classic non-denial denial. Sadly, Trump corrupts and taints seemingly everyone he comes in contact with. My apologies. I was unclear. The funny part was asking Ed for a reasonable explanation. He's said more than once in the past that he doesn't owe anyone an explanation of his thoughts. On a message board on which he's posting and participating. Perplexing. As always, thank you for the content and perspective. Well, I won't wait for a "reasonable explanation" because it is quite clear that Trump is not a person of reason. The benign explanation I proffered earlier is consistent with Trump's persona. Now I will root for Otto against the Celtics.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on May 15, 2017 21:14:01 GMT -5
Let's repeat it again. This man is totally unqualified to be President.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 15, 2017 21:54:55 GMT -5
Let's repeat it again. This man is totally unqualified to be President. Yeah, but he can declassify information. Of course, he's not qualified to capably do that but he's allowed to do it. Stop focusing on the wrong stuff. It makes him look worse.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 15, 2017 22:04:46 GMT -5
Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Yup, just routine declassification. They snuck Kislyak in, barred the press from the meeting, let the Russian photogs in, Lavrov trolls the press, they removed all of the offending parts of this leak from the record, and the White House has been lying about all of this for a week. Definitely how declassification works.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on May 15, 2017 22:24:27 GMT -5
Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Yup, just routine declassification. They snuck Kislyak in, barred the press from the meeting, let the Russian photogs in, Lavrov trolls the press, they removed all of the offending parts of this leak from the record, and the White House has been lying about all of this for a week. Definitely how declassification works. Thank you for admitting it.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 15, 2017 22:59:23 GMT -5
Julius Rosenberg should have run for President.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2017 5:39:45 GMT -5
Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Yup, just routine declassification. They snuck Kislyak in, barred the press from the meeting, let the Russian photogs in, Lavrov trolls the prss, they removed all of the offending parts of this leak from the record, and the White House has been lying about all of this for a week. Definitely how declassification works. Gang of 8 should immediately have a classified briefing with DCI and DIRNSA. Make Gen. McMaster attend as well. The Russians and the RIS must be knocking back the vodka for having succeeded in one of the most successful intel ops in its history. "[T]his may well be a violation of the President’s oath of office. Questions of criminality aside, we turn to the far more significant issues: If the President gave this information away through carelessness or neglect, he has arguably breached his oath of office. As Quinta and Ben have elaborated on in some detail, in taking the oath President Trump swore to “faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States” and to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States” to the best of his ability. It’s very hard to argue that carelessly giving away highly sensitive material to an adversary foreign power constitutes a faithful execution of the office of President." www.lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on May 16, 2017 7:15:39 GMT -5
Thanks for admitting the President has the authority to de-classify information. Ed, did you read the article? It states quite clearly that the President has that authority. Can you offer a reasonable explanation for what Trump did? Just separating fact from editorializing.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2017 7:22:38 GMT -5
Ed, did you read the article? It states quite clearly that the President has that authority. Can you offer a reasonable explanation for what Trump did? Just separating fact from editorializing. Still waiting for your reasonable explanation that on the day after Trump fired Comey because of "that Russian thing", he's meeting with Lavrov and Kislyak (the apparent handler for Flynn, Sessions, Kushner) to provide them with a propaganda photo and disclosing code word information putting at risk a human asset on the ground, while excluding the US press but allowing Tass to cover the meeting. The fact is Trump disclosed highly classified code word information in a context in which it has endangered an intelligence relationship with an ally or allies. You don't seem to understand that but I must chalk it up to the fact that you've never worked in the intelligence world and you are in denial about what a disaster this ignorant President is. You are a bit younger than my father would be if he were alive. My father fought the Nazis in WWII, worked for the CIA against the Soviets (you remember them, don't you) and against the Chicoms, and was one the last Americans choppered off the US Embassy roof in Saigon. He was a cold warrior till the day he died. I would think a man of your generation would have a minimal understanding that the Russians are no different than the Soviets and are not friends or allies.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 8:13:54 GMT -5
Welp Trump's up early tweeting and just confirmed on twitter that he sent Tillerson, Dina Powell, and McMaster out yesterday to lie directly to our faces....
Trump is showing us in real time how much of this stuff is guarded by the integrity of the person in the office, not by law.... The President could decide to show off, leak the names of all our spies and assetts across the globe, and it would legal. It would also be extremely damaging to our National Security. If that's the bar for Republicans then we're screwed....
"When the president does it, that means that it is not illegal" - Richard Nixon
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TC
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Post by TC on May 16, 2017 9:27:38 GMT -5
I thought this was a good read - Erickson is a total right wing hack and he's admitting here it's Trump's own people leaking because they see no way to get him to listen other than putting this stuff in the press and hoping he listens to public blowback, because Trump doesn't listen to anyone in the room. theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/Shows how completely devoid of responsibility the GOP has right now - they see the leaks as the problem, and blame the leaks on the FBI for not finding the leakers, blame it on anti-Trump forces in the administration who don't exist, blame the press for reporting things - but they are the ones doing the leaking. GOP Congress wants to distract from any Russia investigation to investigate leaks from their own party in the White House that are happening because they don't feel this President is competent.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2017 10:12:26 GMT -5
I thought this was a good read - Erickson is a total right wing hack and he's admitting here it's Trump's own people leaking because they see no way to get him to listen other than putting this stuff in the press and hoping he listens to public blowback, because Trump doesn't listen to anyone in the room. theresurgent.com/i-know-one-of-the-sources/Shows how completely devoid of responsibility the GOP has right now - they see the leaks as the problem, and blame the leaks on the FBI for not finding the leakers, blame it on anti-Trump forces in the administration who don't exist, blame the press for reporting things - but they are the ones doing the leaking. GOP Congress wants to distract from any Russia investigation to investigate leaks from their own party in the White House that are happening because they don't feel this President is competent. Scariest part from the article: "I am told that what the President did is actually far worse than what is being reported. The President does not seem to realize or appreciate that his bragging can undermine relationships with our allies and with human intelligence sources. He also does not seem to appreciate that his loose lips can get valuable assets in the field killed." Good opinion piece: www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2017/05/16/the-experts-were-right-trump-isnt-fit-to-be-president/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-c%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.45329d348551
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 11:27:03 GMT -5
McMaster a few minutes ago: "The President wasn't even aware of where this information came from."
Does that make it...better? I'm so confused.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2017 11:37:58 GMT -5
McMaster a few minutes ago: "The President wasn't even aware of where this information came from." Does that make it...better? I'm so confused. McMaster did not deny that Trump disclosed classified information. McMaster should have been asked if Trump confronted the Russians about their interference in the US election. What was the purported purpose of the meeting other than Putin asked for it and Trump complied. If as reported the disclosure was made in the midst of Trump bragging about the "great intel" he received, that makes McMaster less than truthful. Which is sad. McMaster should have been asked the question in the context of the purported brag by Trump about that intel. I can see Trump bragging, "I get such great intel, it's beautiful. For example, I just got told about this plot to secrete bombs in laptops and electronic devices from a guy we have in Aleppo." As I said earlier, Trump corrupts and taints everyone around him. See e.g., Rod Rosenstein.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2017 11:58:19 GMT -5
McMaster also said Trump decided to share the intel at the spur of the moment...
Our allies that share sensitive intelligence with us probably feel much better knowing POTUS didn't know he was sharing code word intelligence. Especially considering it was with an adversary, on a whim, to show how awesome he is...
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on May 16, 2017 12:02:39 GMT -5
McMaster also said Trump decided to share the intel at the spur of the moment... Our allies that share sensitive intelligence with us probably feel much better knowing POTUS didn't know he was sharing code word intelligence. Especially considering it was with an adversary, on a whim, to show how awesome he is... Which means there was no tactical decision to disclose which necessarily indicates that we did not adhere to our intelligence sharing agreement with the other intelligence service putting at risk not only the asset but the relationship with the other intelligence service. Of note, a telephone call from Trump to King Abdullah of Jordan was added to Trump's schedule today. Draw your own conclusion. If I'm Fettulah Gulen, I'd go to ground while Erdogan is visiting. Trump just might decide to extradite him on a whim.
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