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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 14:30:33 GMT -5
This offense needs to be scrapped! Finally, you clearly state your agenda honestly. If you seriously think all of our offense is backdoor cuts you either aren't watching the games or you don't understand basketball. I am not saying our offense is great - it hasn't been - but again, you need to back up your statements with some evidence, otherwise it falls flat. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 14:36:06 GMT -5
Maybe the problem is this superiority complex some Hoyas fans have about the team's talent level. I do not see a great team that III is somehow holding back with his awful coaching. There are plenty of Xavier players that I would take and start on the Hoyas, but what is the point of a hypotheticals like that? The idea that somehow our roster is filled with MCD AAs when we actually have one (the most inconsistent Josh Smith) is what I find confusing. And calling Xavier mediocre is just asinine, they are ranked as high as we are by most unbiased measures, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from. We get some of you do not like III, and should just admit you never will no matter what the man does, but using every loss as a time to get on your soapbox to complain about how awful the coaching is with generic clichés gives you no credibility at all in your criticism. Very well stated. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 14:38:38 GMT -5
This offense needs to be scrapped! Finally, you clearly state your agenda honestly. If you seriously think all of our offense is backdoor cuts you either aren't watching the games or you don't understand basketball. I am not saying our offense is great - it hasn't been - but again, you need to back up your statements with some evidence, otherwise it falls flat. You obviously don't know basketball because that is indeed the general idea of this offense. It's set up to get backdoor baskets, hence the hard cuts to the basket off the pass or when the ball is dribbled in your direction. There is no agenda other than, this offense does not fit the personnel, and we have a coach who fails to adjust and dictate to our opponents. He reacts instead of dictating. Those are the facts you and other fail to see because you're an apologist for poor performance. He has you right where he wants you. Congrats. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 14, 2015 14:38:59 GMT -5
Maybe the problem is this superiority complex some Hoyas fans have about the team's talent level. I do not see a great team that III is somehow holding back with his awful coaching. There are plenty of Xavier players that I would take and start on the Hoyas, but what is the point of a hypotheticals like that? The idea that somehow our roster is filled with MCD AAs when we actually have one (the most inconsistent Josh Smith) is what I find confusing. And calling Xavier mediocre is just asinine, they are ranked as high as we are by most unbiased measures, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from.
We get some of you do not like III, and should just admit you never will no matter what the man does, but using every loss as a time to get on your soapbox to complain about how awful the coaching is with generic clichés gives you no credibility at all in your criticism.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 14:41:17 GMT -5
Maybe the problem is this superiority complex some Hoyas fans have about the team's talent level. I do not see a great team that III is somehow holding back with his awful coaching. There are plenty of Xavier players that I would take and start on the Hoyas, but what is the point of a hypotheticals like that? The idea that somehow our roster is filled with MCD AAs when we actually have one (the most inconsistent Josh Smith) is what I find confusing. And calling Xavier mediocre is just asinine, they are ranked as high as we are by most unbiased measures, so again, I have no idea where that is coming from. We get some of you do not like III, and should just admit you never will no matter what the man does, but using every loss as a time to get on your soapbox to complain about how awful the coaching is with generic clichés gives you no credibility at all in your criticism. Very well stated. Comical. Who's job is it to recruit better player then, if you don't think we have good enough "players" to beat a mediocre Xavier team? Who gets paid big bucks to assemble a better team?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 14:44:33 GMT -5
You obviously don't know basketball because that is indeed the general idea of this offense. It's set up to get backdoor baskets, hence the hard cuts to the basket off the pass or when the ball is dribbled in your direction. There is no agenda other than, this offense does not fit the personnel, and we have a coach who fails to adjust and dictate to our opponents. He reacts instead of dictating. Those are the facts you and other fail to see because you're an apologist for poor performance. He has you right where he wants you. Congrats. The offense has actually changed quite a bit over the years. Just go back and watch the 2007 or 2008 teams, and you'll see a much different more deliberate offense. The 2010/2011 teams were also very different as they were guard focused. And last year, the offense heavily revolved around DSR and Starks. There are definitely Princeton principles used by JT3, but the offense is not predicated on back door cuts, and nothing more. PS. I would also add that after 2013, JT3 changed the assistant coaches and we now have much better recruiters. The class of 2014 is the start of that. So yes, that's another adjustment. |
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 14, 2015 14:44:43 GMT -5
lol, every one of those guys was a can't miss prospect coming out of high school except Jabril and Wallace. Only reason Otto wasn't was because he didn't go to camps. My thing is this, if you want to run that antiquated, ineffective offense, recruit some shooters, it's your job. We have a bunch of athletes being forced to run a stiff's offense, square peg, round hole. When was the last time you saw us score more than 2 baskets in a game off this backdoor garbage? This offense needs to be scrapped! If you watch enough college basketball, you'll see every single team backdoor cut at one time or another. We ran a Editeding alley-opp play for christ's sakes. I'm pretty sure that's not in the Princeton playbook. The offense you think we're running, we really aren't. Do you even watch the games? Seriously? Because we must be watching 2 different games. Do you watch other teams play? Duke was getting their asses kicked against ND yesterday because their perimeter players weren't hitting shots and Okafor's production wasn't enough. Tyus Jones, Matt Jones and Cook, all great shooters, went a combined 7-29. Kentucky doesn't run any offense, they essentially just try to get the ball on the rim for one of their bigs to go get. Have you watched Virginia play? Anyone who thinks we are tough to watch, should watch them for a half of basketball. When we get steals or stops we generally get out and run. Again have you been watching? We've done a lot of that this year. Xavier was hitting just about everything and we generally don't run as much off of made baskets, there aren't too many teams who do. You can't possibly be watching the games, so you must just check the box score and come here to harp on your same narrative over and over again when clearly what's actually going on on the basketball court, doesn't fit at all. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 14:50:02 GMT -5
You obviously don't know basketball because that is indeed the general idea of this offense. It's set up to get backdoor baskets, hence the hard cuts to the basket off the pass or when the ball is dribbled in your direction. There is no agenda other than, this offense does not fit the personnel, and we have a coach who fails to adjust and dictate to our opponents. He reacts instead of dictating. Those are the facts you and other fail to see because you're an apologist for poor performance. He has you right where he wants you. Congrats. The offense has actually changed quite a bit over the years. Just go back and watch the 2007 or 2008 teams, and you'll see a much different more deliberate offense. The 2010/2011 teams were also very different as they were guard focused. And last year, the offense heavily revolved around DSR and Starks. There are definitely Princeton principles used by JT3, but the offense is not predicated on back door cuts, and nothing more. I never said "nothing more", but that is what this offense is built around, beating guys off backdoor cuts. That's mainly what we look to do, and when that doesn't work we look like we're playing backyard ball. Fact is nobody is falling for it anymore, and we need to do more motion and pick and roll. Defensively we need to switch up our defense more during the game. We're too darn predictable on both sides of the floor. With the depth and athleticism we have, we should be forcing more turnovers to generate easy baskets, but you don't see it. That's why we get bounced early every year in the tournament vs inferior teams, then blame it on matchups. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 14:52:07 GMT -5
We do run plenty of pick and rolls. I saw plenty Thursday night when I was at the Creighton game. Part of the problem is that our big guys (Smith - too slow/Hopkins - can't finish) aren't made well for a pick and roll offense. Next year, when we have guys who can hit shots in Govan and Derrikson, it might work better.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 14, 2015 14:53:03 GMT -5
I love III but I was disappointed in some of his decisions last night. For to long last night he had a team on the floor that was too dependent on DSR to score. With 10 mins left and down almost 20 he wouldn't bench Bowen, Brilly or Hop. I understand they are seniors but they were either off, not shooting or a combination of both. I don't have an agenda but why not try Reggie or put Tre back in the game when nobody was providing a spark. Watching DSR and Josh force up shots and the other three either turning down or badly missing wide open shots was killing me.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 14:55:17 GMT -5
lol, every one of those guys was a can't miss prospect coming out of high school except Jabril and Wallace. Only reason Otto wasn't was because he didn't go to camps. My thing is this, if you want to run that antiquated, ineffective offense, recruit some shooters, it's your job. We have a bunch of athletes being forced to run a stiff's offense, square peg, round hole. When was the last time you saw us score more than 2 baskets in a game off this backdoor garbage? This offense needs to be scrapped! If you watch enough college basketball, you'll see every single team backdoor cut at one time or another. We ran a Editeding alley-opp play for christ's sakes. I'm pretty sure that's not in the Princeton playbook. The offense you think we're running, we really aren't. Do you even watch the games? Seriously? Because we must be watching 2 different games. Do you watch other teams play? Duke was getting their asses kicked against ND yesterday because their perimeter players weren't hitting shots and Okafor's production wasn't enough. Tyus Jones, Matt Jones and Cook, all great shooters, went a combined 7-29. Kentucky doesn't run any offense, they essentially just try to get the ball on the rim for one of their bigs to go get. Have you watched Virginia play? Anyone who thinks we are tough to watch, should watch them for a half of basketball. When we get steals or stops we generally get out and run. Again have you been watching? We've done a lot of that this year. Xavier was hitting just about everything and we generally don't run as much off of made baskets, there aren't too many teams who do. You can't possibly be watching the games, so you must just check the box score and come here to harp on your same narrative over and over again when clearly what's actually going on on the basketball court, doesn't fit at all. That's foolish. We ran an alley oop play, whooptie damn doo. With the athletes we have, we should be running at least 3 alley oop plays EVERY game, but he's too stuck on this square peg round hole offense. Saying Xavier was hitting everything is a flat out lie because they weren't, we just looked terrible and didn't adjust to the 1-3-1. What game were you watching?
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 14:58:38 GMT -5
We do run plenty of pick and rolls. I saw plenty Thursday night when I was at the Creighton game. Part of the problem is that our big guys (Smith - too slow/Hopkins - can't finish) aren't made well for a pick and roll offense. Next year, when we have guys who can hit shots in Govan and Derrikson, it might work better. Our bigs don't have to be the ones setting the picks. Trawick, Copeland, or Bowen could set the pick and finish. Our offense stalls because we're predictable, and the offense he's asking these kids to run don't fit their strengths at all. If he wants to continue this mess, then he needs to do a better job of recruiting shooters. |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 15:00:42 GMT -5
The second half comeback was triggered with Trawick and Hopkins on the floor together, according to the play-by-play. Bowen was on for the start of it (the first five points reducing the defect from 21 to 16), and then was replaced by White.
Just the facts. Sorry it didn't support the narrative.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:02:26 GMT -5
We do run plenty of pick and rolls. I saw plenty Thursday night when I was at the Creighton game. Part of the problem is that our big guys (Smith - too slow/Hopkins - can't finish) aren't made well for a pick and roll offense. Next year, when we have guys who can hit shots in Govan and Derrikson, it might work better. Our bigs don't have to be the ones setting the picks. Trawick, Copeland, or Bowen could set the pick and finish. Our offense stalls because we're predictable, and the offense he's asking these kids to run don't fit their strengths at all. If he wants to continue this mess, then he needs to do a better job of recruiting shooters. We stopped running the Princeton offense two or three seasons ago. If you knew what the offense was you would have realized that . The reason you don't have Copeland/Bowen/Trawick set the screens is because their man defending guard would create no mismatches. It would be a clean switch. But again, that would require of a clue of what you were talking about. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:08:46 GMT -5
Our bigs don't have to be the ones setting the picks. Trawick, Copeland, or Bowen could set the pick and finish. Our offense stalls because we're predictable, and the offense he's asking these kids to run don't fit their strengths at all. If he wants to continue this mess, then he needs to do a better job of recruiting shooters. We stopped running the Princeton offense two or three seasons ago. If you knew what the offense was you would have realized that . The reason you don't have Copeland/Bowen/Trawick set the screens is because their man defending guard would create no mismatches. It would be a clean switch. But again, that would require of a clue of what you were talking about. lol, what a joke. So since JTIII wants people to call the offense the Georgetown offense, and not the Princeton offense, you believe it. That's proof positive you have no freakin idea what you're watching. This is the same bs we we're doing years ago. Trust your eyes. Who cares about the matchup, the pick would create space and an open lane. Plus you're blind or never played the game if you don't think Copeland or Trawick wouldn't have an advantage over a point guard going to the hole.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 14, 2015 15:11:39 GMT -5
The second half comeback was triggered with Trawick and Hopkins on the floor together, according to the play-by-play. Bowen was on for the start of it (the first five points reducing the defect from 21 to 16), and then was replaced by White. Just the facts. Sorry it didn't support the narrative. If you consider getting Reynolds to react to get with a tech triggering then I agree. The rally was triggered when somebody finally took and hit a wide open shot. If Bowen or Peak would have made one of their shots the rally could have started sooner and maybe we win. I saw Brilly turn down at least 3 open 3s before taking the shot in which the entire Xavier team ran away from him. I also believe it was less stellar D and more Xavier clock watching that started the rally. |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 15:13:15 GMT -5
We do run plenty of pick and rolls. I saw plenty Thursday night when I was at the Creighton game. Part of the problem is that our big guys (Smith - too slow/Hopkins - can't finish) aren't made well for a pick and roll offense. Next year, when we have guys who can hit shots in Govan and Derrikson, it might work better. Our bigs don't have to be the ones setting the picks. Trawick, Copeland, or Bowen could set the pick and finish. Our offense stalls because we're predictable, and the offense he's asking these kids to run don't fit their strengths at all. If he wants to continue this mess, then he needs to do a better job of recruiting shooters. On one hand you want Trawick, Copeland and Bowen setting picks, and on the other hand you don't want players doing things that don't "fit their strengths." Which is it? What you are proposing contradicts your hypothesis. Copeland and Bowen aren't big enough to set picks, and I fear that Trawick setting picks would put him in foul trouble five minutes into the game. As for recruiting shooters. . .we all thought that Cameron was a shooter. We all appear to be wrong. We all thought that Domingo was a shooter. We were wrong. We have to do better with identifying shooters and recruiting them; that puts us up there with almost every other college team. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:17:11 GMT -5
We stopped running the Princeton offense two or three seasons ago. If you knew what the offense was you would have realized that . The reason you don't have Copeland/Bowen/Trawick set the screens is because their man defending guard would create no mismatches. It would be a clean switch. But again, that would require of a clue of what you were talking about. lol, what a joke. So since JTIII wants people to call the offense the Georgetown offense, and not the Princeton offense, you believe it. That's proof positive you have no freakin idea what you're watching. This is the same bs we we're doing years ago. Trust your eyes. Who cares about the matchup, the pick would create space and an open lane. Plus you're blind or never played the game if you don't think Copeland or Trawick wouldn't have an advantage over a point guard going to the hole.
It has nothing to do with III. We don't run the same sets as Princeton or Georgetown teams from 2005-2012. Nothing that is even that similar. And, God, this is the dumbest argument. Copeland and Trawick set screens all the time and there doesn't need to be a switch because SF/Pf are athletic and mobile enough to hedge properly. What you are advocating for offense that is more similar to the Princeton offense anyways. As we get further away from it you seem to be clamoring for it's return. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:17:29 GMT -5
Our bigs don't have to be the ones setting the picks. Trawick, Copeland, or Bowen could set the pick and finish. Our offense stalls because we're predictable, and the offense he's asking these kids to run don't fit their strengths at all. If he wants to continue this mess, then he needs to do a better job of recruiting shooters. On one hand you want Trawick, Copeland and Bowen setting picks, and on the other hand you don't want players doing things that don't "fit their strengths." Which is it? What you are proposing contradicts your hypothesis. Copeland and Bowen aren't big enough to set picks, and I fear that Trawick setting picks would put him in foul trouble five minutes into the game. As for recruiting shooters. . .we all thought that Cameron was a shooter. We all appear to be wrong. We all thought that Domingo was a shooter. We were wrong. We have to do better with identifying shooters and recruiting them; that puts us up there with almost every other college team. They're basketball players, so they should have no problems whatsoever setting picks. I played the 1 and 2, and had to set picks every game. I see you really haven't played this game before. I never said that should be our sole source of scoring, but you have to mix things up so we're not so predictable. That Princeton/"Georgetown" mess we're running is a joke, and does not fit this team. Again, it's III's job to do a better job of evaluating and recruiting or he needs to change to offense to fit the players he has, like the great ones do.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:19:24 GMT -5
This offense needs to be scrapped! Finally, you clearly state your agenda honestly. If you seriously think all of our offense is backdoor cuts you either aren't watching the games or you don't understand basketball. I am not saying our offense is great - it hasn't been - but again, you need to back up your statements with some evidence, otherwise it falls flat. The backdoors aren't there because they don't work against pack-the-lines. If we want to do them, then we need to get shooters to open the middle. Cameron and Domingo had nationally known shooting skills before coming to GU and they were recruited because of those skills and to be shooters. To think otherwise is to try to erase history. |
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