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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:19:34 GMT -5
On one hand you want Trawick, Copeland and Bowen setting picks, and on the other hand you don't want players doing things that don't "fit their strengths." Which is it? What you are proposing contradicts your hypothesis. Copeland and Bowen aren't big enough to set picks, and I fear that Trawick setting picks would put him in foul trouble five minutes into the game. As for recruiting shooters. . .we all thought that Cameron was a shooter. We all appear to be wrong. We all thought that Domingo was a shooter. We were wrong. We have to do better with identifying shooters and recruiting them; that puts us up there with almost every other college team. They're basketball players, so they should have no problems whatsoever setting picks. I played the 1 and 2, and had to set picks every game. I see you really haven't played this game before. I never said that should be our sole source of scoring, but you have to mix things up so we're not so predictable. That Princeton/"Georgetown" mess we're running is a joke, and does not fit this team. Again, it's III's job to do a better job of evaluating and recruiting or he needs to change to offense to fit the players he has, like the great ones do.
WOW! You just said "it has nothing to do with III" UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
"the soft bigotry of low expectations"
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Mar 14, 2015 15:20:13 GMT -5
Also for those that are hating our offense today, it has worked against all but one team this year. The best thing that came out of last night is 1) our fab freshman seemed to find his groove again and 2) we seemed to find an O that works against Xavier. The only thing good about the rally is that it was led by Ike. If the exact sequence of events happened last night but DSR was making all the shots I would be more worried about the tourney. Ike and Paul made a lot of big plays to bring our team back. Come on fellas, lets focus on the positive.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:21:12 GMT -5
Finally, you clearly state your agenda honestly. If you seriously think all of our offense is backdoor cuts you either aren't watching the games or you don't understand basketball. I am not saying our offense is great - it hasn't been - but again, you need to back up your statements with some evidence, otherwise it falls flat. The backdoors aren't there because they don't work against pack-the-lines. If we want to do them, then we need to get shooters to open the middle. Cameron and Domingo had nationally known shooting skills before coming to GU and they were recruited because of those skills and to be shooters. To think otherwise is to try to erase history. So you're saying he's doing a poor job of getting the best out of his players? If they could shoot before they got here, what happened?  |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 15:23:27 GMT -5
They're basketball players, so they should have no problems whatsoever setting picks. I played the 1 and 2, and had to set picks every game. I see you really haven't played this game before. I never said that should be our sole source of scoring, but you have to mix things up so we're not so predictable. That Princeton/"Georgetown" mess we're running is a joke, and does not fit this team. Again, it's III's job to do a better job of evaluating and recruiting or he needs to change to offense to fit the players he has, like the great ones do.
WOW! You just said "it has nothing to do with III" UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
"the soft bigotry of low expectations"
Excuse me. . .are you saying that I said that "it has nothing to do with III"? Are you implying that I am utilizing "the soft bigotry of low expectations"? I just want to be just what words you are trying to place in my mouth (or at my keyboard) before I decide whether or not to respond any further. EDIT: You're right. I've never played organized basketball before, expect in CYO-type league in my youth. I've only watched the game for 50+ years. I guess that means my thoughts are meaningless. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:27:10 GMT -5
The backdoors aren't there because they don't work against pack-the-lines. If we want to do them, then we need to get shooters to open the middle. Cameron and Domingo had nationally known shooting skills before coming to GU and they were recruited because of those skills and to be shooters. To think otherwise is to try to erase history. So you're saying he's doing a poor job of getting the best out of his players? If they could shoot before they got here, what happened? No idea. And no one here has the answer. You're guess is as good as mine. My guess is Domingo lost all his confidence and mechanics from high school. Was it pointed out to him? Who knows. Maybe age, maybe lack of pt. Reggie? Not enough playing time to get on some sort of roll, if possible, but he's not as good as the other rotation players on defense. Nikita? Josh The Dagger? No idea. I just hope it's not the same with Marcus who will have plenty of pt down low and will have plenty of opportunities to shoot from the hand-off at the top of the key or in the middle o the zone. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:29:16 GMT -5
Sleepy said, "it has nothing to do with III" which is the mindset of quite a few here, including you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:31:01 GMT -5
WOW! You just said "it has nothing to do with III" UNBELIEVABLE!!!!
"the soft bigotry of low expectations"
Excuse me. . .are you saying that I said that "it has nothing to do with III"? Are you implying that I am utilizing "the soft bigotry of low expectations"? I just want to be just what words you are trying to place in my mouth (or at my keyboard) before I decide whether or not to respond any further. EDIT: You're right. I've never played organized basketball before, expect in CYO-type league in my youth. I've only watched the game for 50+ years. I guess that means my thoughts are meaningless. No, not meaningless, but if you played, you wouldn't make it seem far fetched that guards and small forwards set picks. |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 15:32:51 GMT -5
So you're saying he's doing a poor job of getting the best out of his players? If they could shoot before they got here, what happened? No idea. And no one here has the answer. You're guess is as good as mine. My guess is Domingo lost all his confidence and mechanics from high school. Was it pointed out to him? Who knows. Maybe age, maybe lack of pt. Reggie? Not enough playing time to get on some sort of roll, if possible, but he's not as good as the other rotation players on defense. Nikita? Josh The Dagger? No idea. I just hope it's not the same with Marcus who will have plenty of pt down low and will have plenty of opportunities to shoot from the hand-off at the top of the key or in the middle o the zone. We both KNOW this though. III gets paid a lot of $$$ to figure it out, and he's not doing it. |
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:34:19 GMT -5
Finally, you clearly state your agenda honestly. If you seriously think all of our offense is backdoor cuts you either aren't watching the games or you don't understand basketball. I am not saying our offense is great - it hasn't been - but again, you need to back up your statements with some evidence, otherwise it falls flat. You obviously don't know basketball because that is indeed the general idea of this offense.s. Why are you resorting to personal attacks on posters. ad hominem attacks and appeals to authority only weaken your arguement. |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 15:34:56 GMT -5
Is LJ PEAK one of the most unproductive players for the minutes he gets? I know he scores about 8 a game but it seems like he's pretty limited on offense and had yet to find his jump shot. He's seems to be a guy that's not going to make mistakes, has good court awareness and will slash to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself.
Also he seems to miss a ton of FTS. I'm sure he's around 70% but it seems like every time I watch its 1 of 2 at best.
Am I being too harsh? Seems like the rest of the frost can all stroke it.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 15:34:52 GMT -5
I have never said that it has nothing to do with JT3. I have said that there is too much blame being placed on the coaches for player failures, but that does not mean that everything the coaches have done is perfect. I am just tired of seeing ad hominem attacks on the coaching staff, with a group of assistants that has been in flux for years (due to recruiting shortcomings and head coach hirings), every time that the team has a bad night.
I am also tired of this thread.
I look forward to seeing some posts from you after the next Hoya win.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:35:08 GMT -5
Sleepy said, "it has nothing to do with III" which is the mindset of quite a few here, including you. Correct me if I'm wrong. What? My opinion of whether we run a princeton type offense is independent of what III has said. That was clear from the post you didn't quote correctly. Maybe while you are looking up general basketball concepts you can also get a handle of the whole reading comprehension thing. Look, I know you are a troll, but there are other non-troll posters out there that hold similar opinions which is the only reason why I am responding. We abandoned the Princeton offense years ago and our offense has suffered greatly since. You keep advocation fore more Princeton like sets without even realizing it. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 14, 2015 15:36:35 GMT -5
JT3 has seen plenty of players with improvement: Roy Hibbert: Hibbert came in as a freshman who was very poor offensively who became a lotto pick by the time he was a senior. Henry Sims: Sims saw significant improvement during his sophomore to junior year, and then junior to senior year. I would add that Sims also basically stated that his dedication was renewed to basketball in the summer between sophomore and junior year. This lends more credence to the fact that a significant part of development is in the player's hands, and it's not all coaching. Jeff Green: Statistically, Green also showed improvement while at Georgetown. While his stats dipped a bit from freshman to sophomore year, Green's junior year was clearly his best at Georgetown, which is one of the main reasons we made the Final Four (the other being Hibbert). Jonathan Wallace: Wallace posted steadily increasing offensive efficiencies: 98.0, 117.2, 119.7, 121.8. I think the 121.8 his senior season is all the more impressive because Green was no longer on the team. He clearly improved in his time at Georgetown. Wallace also saw general improvement in his threes, until senior year when he dipped a bit (but was still excellent): 37.3%, 40.8%, 49%, 44.7%. Dajuan Summers: I know people like to dump on Summers, and he probably did not reach his full potential, but he actually did improve while at Georgetown - though not as significantly as some others. Greg Monroe: Statistically, Monroe's two seasons were similar, but I would argue that he did become a better player over the two seasons, and he was basically immediately ready to play substantial minutes for an NBA team. Chris Wright: Statistically, Wright clearly improved freshman to junior year (O ratings of 100.1, 107.8, 115.7). Wright did become less efficient his senior year, but he was still a very solid player, his three point shooting was virtually the same as his junior year, his FT percentage improved, and his assist rate went up significantly. Austin Freeman: Freeman was a pretty great collegiate player his entire career (never posting an O rating less than 115.0), but he also showed some improvement. Considering that he kept up significant production despite the diabetes diagnosis shows me that he developed just fine. Jason Clark: Clark was always a fairly talented scorer, but he improved throughout his time at Georgetown, especially junior into senior year. There was a time when Clark couldn't handle the ball without turning it over and when his defense was awful (we lost a game against St. John's one year where he lost his defender badly), and that improved substantially by the time of his senior season. Markel Starks: Starks improved fairly significantly from freshman to junior year, despite regressing a bit last year. Still, I think Starks' supporting cast was better his first three years, so I am not sure you can necessarily blame Starks or the staff here. Starks 3 point shooting showed improvement, as well, but dipped his senior year - 25.7%, 36.7%, 41.7, and then 32.6% . Otto Porter: Porter went from being a very good player his freshman year to being an outstanding player. His usage increased substantially, and he increased his efficiency, as well. His three point shooting went from 22.6% as a freshman to 42.2% as a sophomore - an outstanding improvement. DSR: DSR's O rating has steadily improved - 104.1, 120.6, and 122.3 this year. His three point shooting has also improved (though not significantly from last year) - 33.6%, 39.3%, 39.5%. Trawick: Track's O ratings are 106.6, 95.8, 110.2, 109.5. His three point shooting has steadily improved - 24%, 29,9%, 31.2%, 40.3%. Thus, anybody who says that players don't improve under these coaches is simply ignoring our facts. The people that are often raised as not improving - Cameron, Domingo, etc. - tend to be players who have never demonstrated much skill to begin with.JT3's early staff of Johnson, Burke & Broadus was excellent.. They were good on the road and just as important they seem to be good X&O coaches as well as good teachers of fundamentals.. Kids like Ashanti, Bowman, Owens, Hibbert, Green, Wallace ect.. all improved under that staff.. 3 hasn't had a new asst as good as Johnson since he left imo.. Cameron & Domingo demonstrated the ability to shoot in HS, that's why they were recruited to G'town.. Domingo was supposed to replace Hollis remember? To say they never demonstrated much skill isn't accurate at all.. Talking up how highly rated players like Freeman, Monroe, Wright, Clark, Starks, DSR or Summers improved during their time at G'town isn't a huge endorsement imo.. Those players would have thrived at most any school.. Ditto for Otto & Jeff they were just late bloomers to the recruiting rankings.. What about Hop's offensive game? Nate? Moses? Aaron? Hayes? The question is what do guys like Othella, Hardy & Sutton bring to the table? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 15:38:11 GMT -5
The backdoors aren't there because they don't work against pack-the-lines. If we want to do them, then we need to get shooters to open the middle. Cameron and Domingo had nationally known shooting skills before coming to GU and they were recruited because of those skills and to be shooters. To think otherwise is to try to erase history. So you're saying he's doing a poor job of getting the best out of his players? If they could shoot before they got here, what happened? The level of competition changed.. HS success doesn’t guarantee College success. Different levels |
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:39:36 GMT -5
Is LJ PEAK one of the most unproductive players for the minutes he gets? I know he scores about 8 a game but it seems like he's pretty limited on offense and had yet to find his jump shot. He's seems to be a guy that's not going to make mistakes, has good court awareness and will slash to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself. Also he seems to miss a ton of FTS. I'm sure he's around 70% but it seems like every time I watch its 1 of 2 at best. Am I being too harsh? Seems like the rest of the frost can all stroke it. He's actually somehow around 72% which isn't bad but it surprise me because I was assuming he was around 55%-60% percent since he always seems to be missing fts. |
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GPHoya
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Post by GPHoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:39:51 GMT -5
"Laying last night 100% at the feet of the coaching staff is as myopic as putting the same amount on the players alone. It was a TEAM loss. It's not like this coach is trotting the 75-76 Indiana Hoosier lineup out there."
Dan,
This is, of course, true, so far as it goes. In college basketball, the coach "buys the groceries" so has to accept a lot responsibility for the quality of the line-up he is coaching unless he has a program that is hard to sell. I am sure that Coach Thompson is as disappointed in the results he has achieved since 2007 as anyone and that he accepts accountability for improving them. With the brand his father built and he re-established in the early years of his tenure, Georgetown, not Villanova, should be be the dominant program in the new Big East. Despite that, aside from DSR, no upperclassman will contribute to next year's team and that is not because anyone has jumped to the NBA or been lost to injury. We will have a good deal of underclass talent, but no experienced post player. It will not be the 75-76 Hoosiers ( I saw that Final Four in Philly), but he needs to get us back on top with superior coaching of the players he has recruited or explain why the Georgetown brand isn't good enough to be on top in this league at least once in a three-year period. Let's stop making excuses and return to producing results. If something is wrong, figure it out and fix it. Losing to Xavier three times in the same season and to Providence twice--really. Win next weekend and build from there. A little urgency and a little anger strike me as a more appropriate response than simply resigning ourselves to perpetual mediocrity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 15:40:55 GMT -5
Is LJ PEAK one of the most unproductive players for the minutes he gets? I know he scores about 8 a game but it seems like he's pretty limited on offense and had yet to find his jump shot. He's seems to be a guy that's not going to make mistakes, has good court awareness and will slash to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself. Also he seems to miss a ton of FTS. I'm sure he's around 70% but it seems like every time I watch its 1 of 2 at best. Am I being too harsh? Seems like the rest of the frost can all stroke it. Ehhh Focusing too much on offense an outside shooting imho… Plus he’s too talented not to let him wk through it.. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:43:53 GMT -5
So you're saying he's doing a poor job of getting the best out of his players? If they could shoot before they got here, what happened? The level of competition changed.. HS success doesn’t guarantee College success. Different levels During this season Cameron was dared to shoot by other teams or he shot wide open and still he didn't make them. Same goes for Domingo. I don't see what that has to do with the level of competition. Sorry... a great mystery in the halls of McD... |
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 14, 2015 15:45:42 GMT -5
It's not ALL or NONE, and you seem to be pushing an agenda that puts it all on III. He can draw up the absolute best play in the book, but the guys have to go out and execute. You say, you've played before, so you should know well and good nobody shoots 100% from the field, players miss shots, they get gunshy and even that extra second of hesitation makes the next shot even that much more difficult. Have you coached before?? Literally as a coach you could draw up the best play in the book, and one of several things can happen:
1. they fail to execute it properly, set the pick too early, cut too late, whatever I wanted they don't do it right
2. they run it perfectly, it's poetry in motion, and they get a beautiful, wide open, look, they miss
3. they run the play and score!
4. they run the play, the defense adjusts and you don't get the look you thought you would
The difference between 2 and 3 is fractions. We aren't playing dummy defenses, other teams and coaches are smart too, 1 and 4 are sometimes hard to differentiate. III might have done the right thing, made the right call, and if the players miss the shot it's NOT all on him. And if the players make the shot off of a play the coach called, it's not ALL them either.
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 15:46:02 GMT -5
Is LJ PEAK one of the most unproductive players for the minutes he gets? I know he scores about 8 a game but it seems like he's pretty limited on offense and had yet to find his jump shot. He's seems to be a guy that's not going to make mistakes, has good court awareness and will slash to the hoop when the opportunity presents itself. Also he seems to miss a ton of FTS. I'm sure he's around 70% but it seems like every time I watch its 1 of 2 at best. Am I being too harsh? Seems like the rest of the frost can all stroke it. Ehhh Focusing too much on offense an outside shooting imho… Plus he’s too talented not to let him wk through it.. Don't get me wrong I think he will be terrific. I just see that he starts and plays major minutes. There was pre season and early season hype with regards to LJ and I have not seen the same progression Isaac and TRE have, even white to a lesser extent. I didn't know if anyone felt the same way. |
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