DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 14, 2015 15:46:55 GMT -5
GP: I don't totally disagree with you and am certainly not "resigning" myself to mediocrity. There's plenty that can be improved but it's not as simple an answer as some here would have us believe. If you're looking for III to go postal and do the Boeheim jacket throw during a game: ain't gonna happen.
P.S. - I am pleased to have trolled you into posting.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 15:47:51 GMT -5
Peak brings the ability to give DSR an easier defensive assignment, thus giving him more energy to produce for us offensively. One of the things holding him back in the beginning of the season was that he had too many responsibilities offensively and defensively. This is one of the changes we made that seemed to help him come out of that "slump" he was in to start the year. Peak certainly isn't a defensive stopper, but he is strong enough to give DSR a break.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 15:50:32 GMT -5
By the way, for those of you so heavily invested in discussing perceived shortcomings of JT3 and his staff. . .Oliver Purnell resigned this afternoon. Like his team's style of play? He's available.
I like my coach just fine, thanks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 15:50:51 GMT -5
JT3 has seen plenty of players with improvement: Roy Hibbert: Hibbert came in as a freshman who was very poor offensively who became a lotto pick by the time he was a senior. Henry Sims: Sims saw significant improvement during his sophomore to junior year, and then junior to senior year. I would add that Sims also basically stated that his dedication was renewed to basketball in the summer between sophomore and junior year. This lends more credence to the fact that a significant part of development is in the player's hands, and it's not all coaching. Jeff Green: Statistically, Green also showed improvement while at Georgetown. While his stats dipped a bit from freshman to sophomore year, Green's junior year was clearly his best at Georgetown, which is one of the main reasons we made the Final Four (the other being Hibbert). Jonathan Wallace: Wallace posted steadily increasing offensive efficiencies: 98.0, 117.2, 119.7, 121.8. I think the 121.8 his senior season is all the more impressive because Green was no longer on the team. He clearly improved in his time at Georgetown. Wallace also saw general improvement in his threes, until senior year when he dipped a bit (but was still excellent): 37.3%, 40.8%, 49%, 44.7%. Dajuan Summers: I know people like to dump on Summers, and he probably did not reach his full potential, but he actually did improve while at Georgetown - though not as significantly as some others. Greg Monroe: Statistically, Monroe's two seasons were similar, but I would argue that he did become a better player over the two seasons, and he was basically immediately ready to play substantial minutes for an NBA team. Chris Wright: Statistically, Wright clearly improved freshman to junior year (O ratings of 100.1, 107.8, 115.7). Wright did become less efficient his senior year, but he was still a very solid player, his three point shooting was virtually the same as his junior year, his FT percentage improved, and his assist rate went up significantly. Austin Freeman: Freeman was a pretty great collegiate player his entire career (never posting an O rating less than 115.0), but he also showed some improvement. Considering that he kept up significant production despite the diabetes diagnosis shows me that he developed just fine. Jason Clark: Clark was always a fairly talented scorer, but he improved throughout his time at Georgetown, especially junior into senior year. There was a time when Clark couldn't handle the ball without turning it over and when his defense was awful (we lost a game against St. John's one year where he lost his defender badly), and that improved substantially by the time of his senior season. Markel Starks: Starks improved fairly significantly from freshman to junior year, despite regressing a bit last year. Still, I think Starks' supporting cast was better his first three years, so I am not sure you can necessarily blame Starks or the staff here. Starks 3 point shooting showed improvement, as well, but dipped his senior year - 25.7%, 36.7%, 41.7, and then 32.6% . Otto Porter: Porter went from being a very good player his freshman year to being an outstanding player. His usage increased substantially, and he increased his efficiency, as well. His three point shooting went from 22.6% as a freshman to 42.2% as a sophomore - an outstanding improvement. DSR: DSR's O rating has steadily improved - 104.1, 120.6, and 122.3 this year. His three point shooting has also improved (though not significantly from last year) - 33.6%, 39.3%, 39.5%. Trawick: Track's O ratings are 106.6, 95.8, 110.2, 109.5. His three point shooting has steadily improved - 24%, 29,9%, 31.2%, 40.3%. Thus, anybody who says that players don't improve under these coaches is simply ignoring our facts. The people that are often raised as not improving - Cameron, Domingo, etc. - tend to be players who have never demonstrated much skill to begin with.JT3's early staff of Johnson, Burke & Broadus was excellent.. They were good on the road and just as important they seem to be good X&O coaches as well as good teachers of fundamentals.. Kids like Ashanti, Bowman, Owens, Hibbert, Green, Wallace ect.. all improved under that staff.. 3 hasn't had a new asst as good as Johnson since he left imo.. Cameron & Domingo demonstrated the ability to shoot in HS, that's why they were recruited to G'town.. Domingo was supposed to replace Hollis remember? To say they never demonstrated much skill isn't accurate at all.. Talking up how highly rated players like Freeman, Monroe, Wright, Clark, Starks, DSR or Summers improved during their time at G'town isn't a huge endorsement imo.. Those players would have thrived at most any school.. Ditto for Otto & Jeff they were just late bloomers to the recruiting rankings.. What about Hop's offensive game? Nate? Moses? Aaron? Hayes? The question is what do guys like Othella, Hardy & Sutton bring to the table? I wouldn’t expect a coach to have every player become great but what about Markel or Hopkins overall game? What about Bril? You haven’t seen improvement from Bowen? When a kid comes in at the 150 range Rsci what type of contributions are you expecting from that type of player? D. Smith-Rivera - #37 (2012) Jabril Trawick - #125 (2011) Markel Starks - #90 (2010) Aaron Bowen - #141 (2010) Bradley Hayes – NR in 2012 Mikael Hopkins - #91 (2011) Nate Lubick - #44 (2010) |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 15:50:50 GMT -5
Peak brings the ability to give DSR an easier defensive assignment, thus giving him more energy to produce for us offensively. One of the things holding him back in the beginning of the season was that he had too many responsibilities offensively and defensively. This is one of the changes we made that seemed to help him come out of that "slump" he was in to start the year. Peak certainly isn't a defensive stopper, but he is strong enough to give DSR a break. One can make the argument that you can insert TRE in and sit peak. TRE would lighten the ball handling load and add more shooting to the lineup. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 14, 2015 15:55:24 GMT -5
Peak brings the ability to give DSR an easier defensive assignment, thus giving him more energy to produce for us offensively. One of the things holding him back in the beginning of the season was that he had too many responsibilities offensively and defensively. This is one of the changes we made that seemed to help him come out of that "slump" he was in to start the year. Peak certainly isn't a defensive stopper, but he is strong enough to give DSR a break. One can make the argument that you can insert TRE in and sit peak. TRE would lighten the ball handling load and add more shooting to the lineup. Agree but one also has to accept a drop off on the defensive end. I'm happy going by matchups and with the hot hand. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 15:57:07 GMT -5
The level of competition changed.. HS success doesn’t guarantee College success. Different levels During this season Cameron was dared to shoot by other teams or he shot wide open and still he didn't make them. Same goes for Domingo. I don't see what that has to do with the level of competition. Sorry... a great mystery in the halls of McD... Cameron isn’t dared to shoot.. lol Coaches know he can do (Or is supposed to be able to do) 1 thing well and that’s shoot. The kid is just slow so he hears footsteps, looks like he rushes every shot. Domingo going back to HS had poor mechanics. Watch an old highlight real and watch his feet. They always drifted as they did at GTown and he gets off balance/fades on jumpers also. Domingos recruitment is really a result of playing good at the right time and a cautionary tale on basing evaluations solely on AAU play. Add in a dash of being extremely young for college and a lack of confidence as well of course. |
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2015 15:57:09 GMT -5
Why are there posters who haven't been here all season who suddenly pop up to declare this season is a failure?
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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2015 15:57:45 GMT -5
Ehhh Focusing too much on offense an outside shooting imho… Plus he’s too talented not to let him wk through it.. Don't get me wrong I think he will be terrific. I just see that he starts and plays major minutes. There was pre season and early season hype with regards to LJ and I have not seen the same progression Isaac and TRE have, even white to a lesser extent. I didn't know if anyone felt the same way. LJ struggles against Pack the Line teams because Pack the Line is designed to take away dribble penetration which is his strength. his 3pt shot is honestly out of his range this year. Still it seems like he plays good defense, is athletic, has size and food court awareness. he also doest make bone headed plays. tre makes the backcourt too small if you play him a lot with DSR and also ends up cutting into the minutes of trawick/Bowen/Isaac/peak who would all be forced to small forward. Ike to me seems like he actually does best when he is at small forward because he has a huge size and leaping ability advantage. But that means you need Paul White at power forward along with Hopkins/Joshua. Then trawick-DSR in the back four which is also huge. Basically it will create a mismatch somewhere when you have Copland at small forward, trawick at shooting guard and DSR at point. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 15:59:51 GMT -5
Ehhh Focusing too much on offense an outside shooting imho… Plus he’s too talented not to let him wk through it.. Don't get me wrong I think he will be terrific. I just see that he starts and plays major minutes. There was pre season and early season hype with regards to LJ and I have not seen the same progression Isaac and TRE have, even white to a lesser extent. I didn't know if anyone felt the same way. He played 14 minutes last night Imho I think the board and on most boards in general there’s an overemphasis on what a guy does on offense. |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 16:00:22 GMT -5
One can make the argument that you can insert TRE in and sit peak. TRE would lighten the ball handling load and add more shooting to the lineup. Agree but one also has to accept a drop off on the defensive end. I'm happy going by matchups and with the hot hand. Very fair. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 14, 2015 16:03:40 GMT -5
JT3 has seen plenty of players with improvement: Roy Hibbert: Hibbert came in as a freshman who was very poor offensively who became a lotto pick by the time he was a senior. Henry Sims: Sims saw significant improvement during his sophomore to junior year, and then junior to senior year. I would add that Sims also basically stated that his dedication was renewed to basketball in the summer between sophomore and junior year. This lends more credence to the fact that a significant part of development is in the player's hands, and it's not all coaching. Jeff Green: Statistically, Green also showed improvement while at Georgetown. While his stats dipped a bit from freshman to sophomore year, Green's junior year was clearly his best at Georgetown, which is one of the main reasons we made the Final Four (the other being Hibbert). Jonathan Wallace: Wallace posted steadily increasing offensive efficiencies: 98.0, 117.2, 119.7, 121.8. I think the 121.8 his senior season is all the more impressive because Green was no longer on the team. He clearly improved in his time at Georgetown. Wallace also saw general improvement in his threes, until senior year when he dipped a bit (but was still excellent): 37.3%, 40.8%, 49%, 44.7%. Dajuan Summers: I know people like to dump on Summers, and he probably did not reach his full potential, but he actually did improve while at Georgetown - though not as significantly as some others. Greg Monroe: Statistically, Monroe's two seasons were similar, but I would argue that he did become a better player over the two seasons, and he was basically immediately ready to play substantial minutes for an NBA team. Chris Wright: Statistically, Wright clearly improved freshman to junior year (O ratings of 100.1, 107.8, 115.7). Wright did become less efficient his senior year, but he was still a very solid player, his three point shooting was virtually the same as his junior year, his FT percentage improved, and his assist rate went up significantly. Austin Freeman: Freeman was a pretty great collegiate player his entire career (never posting an O rating less than 115.0), but he also showed some improvement. Considering that he kept up significant production despite the diabetes diagnosis shows me that he developed just fine. Jason Clark: Clark was always a fairly talented scorer, but he improved throughout his time at Georgetown, especially junior into senior year. There was a time when Clark couldn't handle the ball without turning it over and when his defense was awful (we lost a game against St. John's one year where he lost his defender badly), and that improved substantially by the time of his senior season. Markel Starks: Starks improved fairly significantly from freshman to junior year, despite regressing a bit last year. Still, I think Starks' supporting cast was better his first three years, so I am not sure you can necessarily blame Starks or the staff here. Starks 3 point shooting showed improvement, as well, but dipped his senior year - 25.7%, 36.7%, 41.7, and then 32.6% . Otto Porter: Porter went from being a very good player his freshman year to being an outstanding player. His usage increased substantially, and he increased his efficiency, as well. His three point shooting went from 22.6% as a freshman to 42.2% as a sophomore - an outstanding improvement. DSR: DSR's O rating has steadily improved - 104.1, 120.6, and 122.3 this year. His three point shooting has also improved (though not significantly from last year) - 33.6%, 39.3%, 39.5%. Trawick: Track's O ratings are 106.6, 95.8, 110.2, 109.5. His three point shooting has steadily improved - 24%, 29,9%, 31.2%, 40.3%. Thus, anybody who says that players don't improve under these coaches is simply ignoring our facts. The people that are often raised as not improving - Cameron, Domingo, etc. - tend to be players who have never demonstrated much skill to begin with.JT3's early staff of Johnson, Burke & Broadus was excellent.. They were good on the road and just as important they seem to be good X&O coaches as well as good teachers of fundamentals.. Kids like Ashanti, Bowman, Owens, Hibbert, Green, Wallace ect.. all improved under that staff.. 3 hasn't had a new asst as good as Johnson since he left imo.. Cameron & Domingo demonstrated the ability to shoot in HS, that's why they were recruited to G'town.. Domingo was supposed to replace Hollis remember? To say they never demonstrated much skill isn't accurate at all.. Talking up how highly rated players like Freeman, Monroe, Wright, Clark, Starks, DSR or Summers improved during their time at G'town isn't a huge endorsement imo.. Those players would have thrived at most any school.. Ditto for Otto & Jeff they were just late bloomers to the recruiting rankings.. What about Hop's offensive game? Nate? Moses? Aaron? Hayes? The question is what do guys like Othella, Hardy & Sutton bring to the table? JT3 definitely needs an Xs & Os guy to help him in-game. That has been lacking since Brennan left. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:04:26 GMT -5
Peak brings the ability to give DSR an easier defensive assignment, thus giving him more energy to produce for us offensively. One of the things holding him back in the beginning of the season was that he had too many responsibilities offensively and defensively. This is one of the changes we made that seemed to help him come out of that "slump" he was in to start the year. Peak certainly isn't a defensive stopper, but he is strong enough to give DSR a break. One can make the argument that you can insert TRE in and sit peak. TRE would lighten the ball handling load and add more shooting to the lineup. Tre is a pretty horrible defender so that is why that wouldn't work. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 16:04:47 GMT -5
During this season Cameron was dared to shoot by other teams or he shot wide open and still he didn't make them. Same goes for Domingo. I don't see what that has to do with the level of competition. Sorry... a great mystery in the halls of McD... Cameron isn’t dared to shoot.. lol Coaches know he can do (Or is supposed to be able to do) 1 thing well and that’s shoot. The kid is just slow so he hears footsteps, looks like he rushes every shot. Domingo going back to HS had poor mechanics. Watch an old highlight real and watch his feet. They always drifted as they did at GTown and he gets off balance/fades on jumpers also. Domingos recruitment is really a result of playing good at the right time and a cautionary tale on basing evaluations solely on AAU play. Watch the tape. I actually rewatch the games to see if our 3s were good shots, where was the nearest defender, shot clock status, etc... Where you around when I used to do the breakdown of every 3-point shot? It's true. At the beginning, they covered him, but by the BE he was not. Domingo was effective in high school and was a national team selection... for his shooting. If he makes his shot, no one looks at his mechanics. There's plenty of proof of unconventional shooters. You make it sound as if he was good during a short spell. |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 16:05:00 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong I think he will be terrific. I just see that he starts and plays major minutes. There was pre season and early season hype with regards to LJ and I have not seen the same progression Isaac and TRE have, even white to a lesser extent. I didn't know if anyone felt the same way. He played 14 minutes last night Imho I think the board and on most boards in General there’s an overemphasis on what a guy does on offense. He needs to be able to hit a 15-18 footer especially if he's in a line up without DSR and Ike or if smith is in foul trouble. . Thankfully Trawick has had a better shooting season and that has helped. Can't win if you can't score. If the teams are packing it in on him he has not been that effective. |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 16:06:23 GMT -5
One can make the argument that you can insert TRE in and sit peak. TRE would lighten the ball handling load and add more shooting to the lineup. Tre is a pretty horrible defender so that is why that wouldn't work. Yes- he's quick and will learn to get to the right spot. He will be ok. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 16:10:10 GMT -5
Funny that someone mentioned Nikita. He left Georgetown (after shooting 26.2% on threes) and proceeded to shoot 33.3% and then 23.4% on threes his last season at Wake Forest. So essentially, he had no improvement at all, even though he spent 3 years at another program.
If this was some innate problem with Georgetown's staff, wouldn't he have improved substantially? It's too early to know if Domingo will have the same fate.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:11:52 GMT -5
Tre is a pretty horrible defender so that is why that wouldn't work. Yes- he's quick and will learn to get to the right spot. He will be ok. Eventually, maybe, though we have had plenty of athletic guards never make progress defensively (see Clark, Jason). But this season he is a liability defensively which is a huge reason why his minutes have been limited. He isn't too bad on the ball because his speed makes up for his poor decisions, but off the ball he his caught sleeping and ball watching too frequently. It's too late for him defensively and Peak has made significant strides on that side of the court. Offensively he has to get it going though. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 16:14:06 GMT -5
Talking up how highly rated players like Freeman, Monroe, Wright, Clark, Starks, DSR or Summers improved during their time at G'town isn't a huge endorsement imo.. Those players would have thrived at most any school.. Ditto for Otto & Jeff they were just late bloomers to the recruiting rankings.. What about Hop's offensive game? Nate? Moses? Aaron? Hayes? So, essentially, you are stating that the staff's ability to help players improve should be judged solely on the players who aren't already talented and skilled when they come into the program? Hopkins' offensive game has not improved substantially, and I am confident that is Hopkins' own limitation, and nothing the staff can fix. Don't you think they (and Hopkins) have tried? As far as Bowen, he has improved a lot. He isn't a star or top player, but he's turned into a nice contributor which could not be said for his first couple of years. As far as Otto Porter, he was very good as a freshman, but he became elite as a sophomore. His three point shooting skyrocketed. I find it hard to believe that the coaching staff had nothing to do with that, and it was all Otto. |
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richfame
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Post by richfame on Mar 14, 2015 16:15:44 GMT -5
Yes- he's quick and will learn to get to the right spot. He will be ok. Eventually, maybe, though we have had plenty of athletic guards never make progress defensively (see Clark, Jason). But this season he is a liability defensively which is a huge reason why his minutes have been limited. He isn't too bad on the ball because his speed makes up for his poor decisions, but off the ball he his caught sleeping and ball watching too frequently. It's too late for him defensively and Peak has made significant strides on that side of the court. Offensively he has to get it going though. Fair enough sleepy. |
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