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Post by professorhoya on Mar 14, 2015 16:19:37 GMT -5
Funny that someone mentioned Nikita. He left Georgetown (after shooting 26.2% on threes) and proceeded to shoot 33.3% and then 23.4% on threes his last season at Wake Forest. So essentially, he had no improvement at all, even though he spent 3 years at another program. If this was some innate problem with Georgetown's staff, wouldn't he have improved substantially? It's too early to know if Domingo will have the same fate. Same could be said for Moses. he can't even get PT at Nebraska even though he's in a "conventional" offense. I think with Moses he was just never the same after his knee injury. oldhoyafan had a really good post on why Moses' athleticsm wasn't the same. |
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Post by matersammich on Mar 14, 2015 16:19:51 GMT -5
Peak needs to tether himself to DSR this summer. LJ has a ton of natural talent but needs to learn how to focus it and develop as a shooter. If he develops, Peak could be one of the best offensive players we've seen in this program in a long time.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 16:25:10 GMT -5
He played 14 minutes last night Imho I think the board and on most boards in General there’s an overemphasis on what a guy does on offense. He needs to be able to hit a 15-18 footer especially if he's in a line up without DSR and Ike or if smith is in foul trouble. . Thankfully Trawick has had a better shooting season and that has helped. Can't win if you can't score. If the teams are packing it in on him he has not been that effective. No Xavier packed it in. And they did it on the whole team not just Peak. Bril in particular passed up a bunch of open jumpers. Also Peak can score but I don’t expect Peak to be the zone buster nor should I. I expect DSR, Bril, Ike others to be… LJ Peak going 0-2 from the field didn’t hurt us. Starting 1-10 from 3 did. Campbell 0-2 Tray 1-3 Dsr 1-6 Ike 1-1 25% and all 3 makes came in the last 10 minutes of play. Hard to win when the guys you expect to hit 3’s start the game 0-9 and that has little to do with Peak.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 16:30:50 GMT -5
Cameron isn’t dared to shoot.. lol Coaches know he can do (Or is supposed to be able to do) 1 thing well and that’s shoot. The kid is just slow so he hears footsteps, looks like he rushes every shot. Domingo going back to HS had poor mechanics. Watch an old highlight real and watch his feet. They always drifted as they did at GTown and he gets off balance/fades on jumpers also. Domingos recruitment is really a result of playing good at the right time and a cautionary tale on basing evaluations solely on AAU play. Watch the tape. I actually rewatch the games to see if our 3s were good shots, where was the nearest defender, shot clock status, etc... Where you around when I used to do the breakdown of every 3-point shot? It's true. At the beginning, they covered him, but by the BE he was not. Domingo was effective in high school and was a national team selection... for his shooting. If he makes his shot, no one looks at his mechanics. There's plenty of proof of unconventional shooters. You make it sound as if he was good during a short spell. Think we all re-watch the games here. Imho He has been guarded… Are they in his face all game like Kellen Dunham? No but they don’t dare him shoot either like Nate Lubick.. History of unconventional shooters is why the staff probably looked past it but it doesn’t take away from the fact that: 1) It did exist 2) His performance in AAU did not match what he did on his HS team 3) There’s more of a history of conventional shooting excellence than unconventional |
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Post by hoyacane11 on Mar 14, 2015 16:31:12 GMT -5
Bottom line and sad truth is, since 2007 III has done nothing but underachieve year after year. That seems to be fine for some, and if that's the case for you, then so be it.
As far as the ignorant troll comment, go back and look at the game threads from earlier in the season, I'm there for the wins and losses, sorry that didn't work out for you.
I'm just not as content as some others with our performance or lack thereof lately.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:33:57 GMT -5
Bottom line and sad truth is, since 2007 III has done nothing but underachieve year after year. That seems to be fine for some, and if that's the case for you, then so be it. As far as the ignorant troll comment, go back and look at the game threads from earlier in the season, I'm there for the wins and losses, sorry that didn't work out for you. I'm just not as content as some others with our performance or lack thereof lately. We have actually overachieved a lot in those years as far as preseason expectations go. So what you said is actually a sad lie. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 14, 2015 16:35:32 GMT -5
JT3's early staff of Johnson, Burke & Broadus was excellent.. They were good on the road and just as important they seem to be good X&O coaches as well as good teachers of fundamentals.. Kids like Ashanti, Bowman, Owens, Hibbert, Green, Wallace ect.. all improved under that staff.. 3 hasn't had a new asst as good as Johnson since he left imo.. Cameron & Domingo demonstrated the ability to shoot in HS, that's why they were recruited to G'town.. Domingo was supposed to replace Hollis remember? To say they never demonstrated much skill isn't accurate at all.. Talking up how highly rated players like Freeman, Monroe, Wright, Clark, Starks, DSR or Summers improved during their time at G'town isn't a huge endorsement imo.. Those players would have thrived at most any school.. Ditto for Otto & Jeff they were just late bloomers to the recruiting rankings.. What about Hop's offensive game? Nate? Moses? Aaron? Hayes? The question is what do guys like Othella, Hardy & Sutton bring to the table? I wouldn’t expect a coach to have every player become great but what about Markel or Hopkins overall game? What about Bril? You haven’t seen improvement from Bowen? When a kid comes in at the 150 range Rsci what type of contributions are you expecting from that type of player? D. Smith-Rivera - #37 (2012) Jabril Trawick - #125 (2011) Markel Starks - #90 (2010) Aaron Bowen - #141 (2010) Bradley Hayes – NR in 2012 Mikael Hopkins - #91 (2011) Nate Lubick - #44 (2010) They all have become better players during their careers but Hop & Bowen especially haven't gotten much better in the areas that would truly benefit the program.. After 3 or 4 seasons at G'town I would expect them to become serviceable offensive players to be honest.. The staff knows what it needs to have the system run at peak efficiency so if you like a player enough to offer him a scholarship then train him up to give you what you need.. Look at Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, he didn't take a 3 in his freshman season.. This year he's shooting 37.9% from 3.. Kills me to mention this dude but Hart went from 31% to 45% in a year which has helped Nova become an even better squad.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 16:38:13 GMT -5
Bottom line and sad truth is, since 2007 III has done nothing but underachieve year after year. That seems to be fine for some, and if that's the case for you, then so be it. As far as the ignorant troll comment, go back and look at the game threads from earlier in the season, I'm there for the wins and losses, sorry that didn't work out for you. I'm just not as content as some others with our performance or lack thereof lately. Bottom line is that’s the way you feel.. That’s fine, but it’s foolish to try and force your opinions on others. The only way you can make that claim is if you focus only on NCAA Tourney results. Here’s a simple and obvious example: In that time we’ve won the BE and in a year when we entered the season un-ranked. How can that be viewed as an underachievement? |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 16:42:30 GMT -5
Watch the tape. I actually rewatch the games to see if our 3s were good shots, where was the nearest defender, shot clock status, etc... Where you around when I used to do the breakdown of every 3-point shot? It's true. At the beginning, they covered him, but by the BE he was not. Domingo was effective in high school and was a national team selection... for his shooting. If he makes his shot, no one looks at his mechanics. There's plenty of proof of unconventional shooters. You make it sound as if he was good during a short spell. Think we all re-watch the games here. Imho He has been guarded… Are they in his face all game like Kellen Dunham? No but they don’t dare him shoot either like Nate Lubick.. History of unconventional shooters is why the staff probably looked past it but it doesn’t take away from the fact that: 1) It did exist 2) His performance in AAU did not match what he did on his HS team 3) There’s more of a history of conventional shooting excellence than unconventional Agree to disagree on Cameron and it's not just eye test. Why didn't the unconventional work for Domingo at the next level when shooting all alone? Deer-caught-in-headlights. Agree with you that conventional is better but an excellent 3-pt prospect is better yet. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 16:47:05 GMT -5
I wouldn’t expect a coach to have every player become great but what about Markel or Hopkins overall game? What about Bril? You haven’t seen improvement from Bowen? When a kid comes in at the 150 range Rsci what type of contributions are you expecting from that type of player? D. Smith-Rivera - #37 (2012) Jabril Trawick - #125 (2011) Markel Starks - #90 (2010) Aaron Bowen - #141 (2010) Bradley Hayes – NR in 2012 Mikael Hopkins - #91 (2011) Nate Lubick - #44 (2010) They all have become better players during their careers but Hop & Bowen especially haven't gotten much better in the areas that would truly benefit the program.. After 3 or 4 seasons at G'town I would expect them to become serviceable offensive players to be honest.. The staff knows what it needs to have the system run at peak efficiency so if you like a player enough to offer him a scholarship then train him up to give you what you need.. Look at Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, he didn't take a 3 in his freshman season.. This year he's shooting 37.9% from 3.. Kills me to mention this dude but Hart went from 31% to 45% in a year which has helped Nova become an even better squad.. Those are largely exceptions to the rule. And you are ignoring Trawick who made a significant jump in 3 point shooting. No, not every player is going to make enormous leaps in improvement and not in specific areas. I don't think there is a single coach in college basketball history that has a 100% improvement rate or even 90%. And certainly the average college basketball players isn't going to be making astronomical leaps of improvement or everyone would be playing in the NBA. So yea, if you compare other programs best improvement stories to our decent or worst ones, then yea, you won't feel too great about our development. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 16:48:06 GMT -5
I wouldn’t expect a coach to have every player become great but what about Markel or Hopkins overall game? What about Bril? You haven’t seen improvement from Bowen? When a kid comes in at the 150 range Rsci what type of contributions are you expecting from that type of player? D. Smith-Rivera - #37 (2012) Jabril Trawick - #125 (2011) Markel Starks - #90 (2010) Aaron Bowen - #141 (2010) Bradley Hayes – NR in 2012 Mikael Hopkins - #91 (2011) Nate Lubick - #44 (2010) They all have become better players during their careers but Hop & Bowen especially haven't gotten much better in the areas that would truly benefit the program.. After 3 or 4 seasons at G'town I would expect them to become serviceable offensive players to be honest.. The staff knows what it needs to have the system run at peak efficiency so if you like a player enough to offer him a scholarship then train him up to give you what you need.. Look at Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, he didn't take a 3 in his freshman season.. This year he's shooting 37.9% from 3.. Kills me to mention this dude but Hart went from 31% to 45% in a year which has helped Nova become an even better squad.. I mean the simple answer to this is Not every player develops at the rate of the above examples… They will be touted because it strengthens your point but what about the players that don’t progress as much you would like or go in the opposite direction? What about Pinkston, he was a Burger boy, Corey Stokes, Ty Johnson, Armwood, and Cheek another top 20 kid.. Heck Mouph was 12 RSCI Every coach has those as well.. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 16:51:54 GMT -5
Think we all re-watch the games here. Imho He has been guarded… Are they in his face all game like Kellen Dunham? No but they don’t dare him shoot either like Nate Lubick.. History of unconventional shooters is why the staff probably looked past it but it doesn’t take away from the fact that: 1) It did exist 2) His performance in AAU did not match what he did on his HS team 3) There’s more of a history of conventional shooting excellence than unconventional Agree to disagree on Cameron and it's not just eye test. Why didn't the unconventional work for Domingo at the next level when shooting all alone? Deer-caught-in-headlights. Agree with you that conventional is better but an excellent 3-pt prospect is better yet. Domingo lit up Pangos his Soph Season. Obviously it’s a huge stage and it you go for 30 on 6-7 from 3 your rep is pretty much solidified in AAU ranks. It’s really that easy. In HS in a weak conference he averaged like 13 or 14ppg. Definitely looked like a deer in headlights probably originally a result of his youth (17) and then that probably led to him being totally unsure of himself and having 0 Confidence |
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Mar 14, 2015 17:06:25 GMT -5
Bottom line and sad truth is, since 2007 III has done nothing but underachieve year after year. That seems to be fine for some, and if that's the case for you, then so be it. As far as the ignorant troll comment, go back and look at the game threads from earlier in the season, I'm there for the wins and losses, sorry that didn't work out for you. I'm just not as content as some others with our performance or lack thereof lately. That's just the thing. No one is content. We just have a difference of opinion on what the root cause is. You think it's III, I think it's not that simple. If you look strictly at wins and losses and completely ignore the circumstances of those losses then there's nothing else to say. There are 2 (maybe 3 cause we should've beat NC State), absolute NCAA failures since '07, Ohio and FGCU. If you cluster those other losses in with those 2, it makes you less credible as a poster, hence the troll comments. Sucks that these have all happened so close together (despite coming after sweet 16 and final 4 appearances) but you know what, happens to the best of 'em, Duke, Kansas, UCLA, UNC, OSU, the list goes on. We need some NCAA success, we all agree on that, but I don't think hiring a new coach is the way to get there. Honestly, there's a chance we take a few steps backwards if we do that. |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 17:13:50 GMT -5
I wouldn’t expect a coach to have every player become great but what about Markel or Hopkins overall game? What about Bril? You haven’t seen improvement from Bowen? When a kid comes in at the 150 range Rsci what type of contributions are you expecting from that type of player? D. Smith-Rivera - #37 (2012) Jabril Trawick - #125 (2011) Markel Starks - #90 (2010) Aaron Bowen - #141 (2010) Bradley Hayes – NR in 2012 Mikael Hopkins - #91 (2011) Nate Lubick - #44 (2010) They all have become better players during their careers but Hop & Bowen especially haven't gotten much better in the areas that would truly benefit the program.. After 3 or 4 seasons at G'town I would expect them to become serviceable offensive players to be honest.. The staff knows what it needs to have the system run at peak efficiency so if you like a player enough to offer him a scholarship then train him up to give you what you need.. Look at Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, he didn't take a 3 in his freshman season.. This year he's shooting 37.9% from 3.. Kills me to mention this dude but Hart went from 31% to 45% in a year which has helped Nova become an even better squad.. Unless there is something off-court that we don't know, Hart is the one player whose recruitment by GU was apparently botched. He's a local kid and I think he would have been a perfect fit on this team. We'll get to see him remind us of that failure for another two years. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 17:17:57 GMT -5
As I noted earlier today, Otto Porter went from shooting threes at a rate of 22.6% as a freshman to 42.2% as a sophomore. That's a pretty huge improvement. I realize Porter was always a very good player, but I don't think anybody thought Porter would explode as much as he did sophomore year.
We do have players that show substantial improvements. The problem is that if you discount these players (they were always good to begin with; it wasn't the coaching staff; he didn't play AAU), you are basically ignoring substantial players who have played huge roles in our success.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 17:21:12 GMT -5
For the record, I am extremely disappointed with our post-season success. I am not happy about it one bit and complain (to actual people - off this board) all the time. The thing is, your arguments are basically that if we defend the team or the coaching staff that we are apologists who are content with what has happened.
One can support the coaching staff and still be displeased with the way things go. I think the problem is that some people are reflexive and basically want to take drastic measures (like firing a coach) everytime something negative happens, which is silly in my view.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 14, 2015 17:23:19 GMT -5
Unless there is something off-court that we don't know, Hart is the one player whose recruitment by GU was apparently botched. He's a local kid and I think he would have been a perfect fit on this team. We'll get to see him remind us of that failure for another two years. I totally agree. I know at the time people in the Recruiting thread were down on him, but I think he really could have helped our team. |
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hoyajinx
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Post by hoyajinx on Mar 14, 2015 17:33:02 GMT -5
Unless there is something off-court that we don't know, Hart is the one player whose recruitment by GU was apparently botched. He's a local kid and I think he would have been a perfect fit on this team. We'll get to see him remind us of that failure for another two years. I totally agree. I know at the time people in the Recruiting thread were down on him, but I think he really could have helped our team. I remember reading this about "negative recruiting," but I don't know if Georgetown was involved in it. Given that Rutgers was one of the schools on his short list, I'm absolutely certain this applied to Mike Rice. zagsblog.com/articles/josh-hart-says-nova-is-only-school-that-didnt-negative-recruit-him/ |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 14, 2015 17:43:57 GMT -5
They all have become better players during their careers but Hop & Bowen especially haven't gotten much better in the areas that would truly benefit the program.. After 3 or 4 seasons at G'town I would expect them to become serviceable offensive players to be honest.. The staff knows what it needs to have the system run at peak efficiency so if you like a player enough to offer him a scholarship then train him up to give you what you need.. Look at Nigel Hayes from Wisconsin, he didn't take a 3 in his freshman season.. This year he's shooting 37.9% from 3.. Kills me to mention this dude but Hart went from 31% to 45% in a year which has helped Nova become an even better squad.. I mean the simple answer to this is Not every player develops at the rate of the above examples… They will be touted because it strengthens your point but what about the players that don’t progress as much you would like or go in the opposite direction? What about Pinkston, he was a Burger boy, Corey Stokes, Ty Johnson, Armwood, and Cheek another top 20 kid.. Heck Mouph was 12 RSCI Every coach has those as well.. Ok forget comparisons then.. In the end my question to you, Sleepy, 2003 or whomever are you satisfied with player development over the last few seasons? I'm not personally.. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 17:56:13 GMT -5
I mean the simple answer to this is Not every player develops at the rate of the above examples… They will be touted because it strengthens your point but what about the players that don’t progress as much you would like or go in the opposite direction? What about Pinkston, he was a Burger boy, Corey Stokes, Ty Johnson, Armwood, and Cheek another top 20 kid.. Heck Mouph was 12 RSCI Every coach has those as well.. Ok forget comparisons then.. In the end my question to you, Sleepy, 2003 or whomever are you satisfied with player development over the last few seasons? I'm not personally.. Recruiting? No, as far as the 2016 and 2017 classes go. Development? Heck yes. Starks, Porter, Trawick, Sims, Clark, and DSR have all been players that made huge strides the last few years. You aren't going to have every single guy on your roster turn into a great college player. Lubick is really the only guy that I haven't seen improve over four years. Compared to other programs, that is pretty impressive. Maybe your player development expectations at the college level are too high. |
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