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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 10:05:48 GMT -5
Ehhh Marquette runs the same 1-3-1 and Providence as well…. Obviously the guys know what to do against that look and have been coached on it. Bottom line when X made their run in the first half the guys played petrified. Unsure passing, holding the ball to long, not stepping into jumpers. Everybody was waiting for somebody else to make a play.
It’s a make or miss game theirs no magic Coaching strategy to fix 1-10 from three and a 26-15 Rebound disadvantage which were our stats at about the 10min mark 2nd half. Guys missed a couple shots and got gun shy, as soon as they saw some shots fall the sky opened up and we had a game...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 10:09:13 GMT -5
Just to defend the Bowen usage real quick. You can break a zone in different way other then just passing, especially when a team plays such an extended 1-3-1 as last night. If you drive into the teeth of the zone, you can cause the wing, point, and even C to collapse on the driver. Nothing else at the time was working, so I was fine with giving Bowen a shot. The comeback came about because Copeland realized his job is zone killer but he wasn't doing his job early on when X showed the 1-3-1. JT3 made adjustments and tried different things, the players just couldn't execute until the last 8 minutes. That just as much them getting tired after their late OT game as it was JT3 making changes. Hell for people complaining JT3 didn't try anything, he put Smith and Hop out there together for a little bit. We haven't seen that in months, but JT3 was trying ANYTHING to get the team going. But Bowen does not have the handle to go though the 1-3-1. Xavier had the late night OT game against a tougher opponent. If our players were tired, then it's on conditioning. We have had a super schedule to not be tired, plus we have a bigger rotation. I believe in tired legs (as opposed to others here), but that should not be a problem this year. |
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Air Jordan
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Post by Air Jordan on Mar 14, 2015 10:10:41 GMT -5
I think LJ Peak needs to let his hair grow back. He has n0t been the same since he got his hair cut. I keep saying last night we have a run in us, we have a run in us. Very very proud of this team, I think they know what they can do, we need to execute nobody in the NCAA scares me because we are as we were last night a few bad shots away from winning. Im ready for next week, its time for us to put it together all 100% no more excuses. LJ Let your hair grow back.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Mar 14, 2015 10:19:58 GMT -5
From the Postgame presser:
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 10:20:47 GMT -5
Ehhh Marquette runs the same 1-3-1 or Providence as well…. Obviously the guys know what to do against that look and have been coached on it. Bottom line when X made their run in the first half the guys played petrified. Unsure passing, holding the ball to long, not stepping into jumpers. Everybody was waiting for somebody else to make a play. It’s a make or miss game theirs no magic Coaching strategy to fix 1-10 from three and a 26-15 Rebound disadvantage wich were our stats at about the 10min mark 2nd half. Guys missed a couple shots and got gun shy, as soon as they saw some shots fall the sky opened up and we had a game... That is when coaching coaching comes in. Call a timeout and get their confidence up, let them know how it's looking from outside, have an aside 1on1 with DSR to get him to shoot more, etc... Nine shots from DSR in an elimination game? I'm one of DSR's biggest fans from the beginning, but 9 shots?! From the camera shots, DSR was clearly frustrated and became gun shy. No sense in banging your head at the bench or clapping your hands to get yourself going. Just shoot, shooter. The coaches are there to remind him and they should have been on him all second half. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2015 10:29:18 GMT -5
Ehhh Marquette runs the same 1-3-1 or Providence as well…. Obviously the guys know what to do against that look and have been coached on it. Bottom line when X made their run in the first half the guys played petrified. Unsure passing, holding the ball to long, not stepping into jumpers. Everybody was waiting for somebody else to make a play. It’s a make or miss game theirs no magic Coaching strategy to fix 1-10 from three and a 26-15 Rebound disadvantage wich were our stats at about the 10min mark 2nd half. Guys missed a couple shots and got gun shy, as soon as they saw some shots fall the sky opened up and we had a game... That is when coaching coaching comes in. Call a timeout and get their confidence up, let them know how it's looking from outside, have an aside 1on1 with DSR to get him to shoot more, etc... Nine shots from DSR in an elimination game? I'm one of DSR's biggest fans from the beginning, but 9 shots?! From the camera shots, DSR was clearly frustrated and became gun shy. No sense in banging your head at the bench or clapping your hands to get yourself going. Just shoot, shooter. The coaches are there to remind him and they should have been on him all second half. Well I’m willing to bet all of that happened but at some point all the talk and motivation in the world means little if guys don’t execute and are passing up open shots because they’re scared to miss.. Brill ended up with a nice game but he was passing up a lot of open jumpers. Even in the 1-3-1 X was packing it in so if you pass up an open 3 to go 1-3 in the lane it’s not going to work often. Especially when you’re kicking it out to shooters who are also gun shy. Credit to him though he was one of the few desperately trying to make something happen and he was 0 for the tournament from 3 before he stepped into one late in the game so he had reason to be hesitant. Still guys have to shoot the ball with confidence. When we score from the outside we win when we don’t we tend to lose. |
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 14, 2015 10:37:18 GMT -5
Ehhh Marquette runs the same 1-3-1 or Providence as well…. Obviously the guys know what to do against that look and have been coached on it. Bottom line when X made their run in the first half the guys played petrified. Unsure passing, holding the ball to long, not stepping into jumpers. Everybody was waiting for somebody else to make a play. It’s a make or miss game theirs no magic Coaching strategy to fix 1-10 from three and a 26-15 Rebound disadvantage wich were our stats at about the 10min mark 2nd half. Guys missed a couple shots and got gun shy, as soon as they saw some shots fall the sky opened up and we had a game... That is when coaching coaching comes in. Call a timeout and get their confidence up, let them know how it's looking from outside, have an aside 1on1 with DSR to get him to shoot more, etc... Nine shots from DSR in an elimination game? I'm one of DSR's biggest fans from the beginning, but 9 shots?! From the camera shots, DSR was clearly frustrated and became gun shy. No sense in banging your head at the bench or clapping your hands to get yourself going. Just shoot, shooter. The coaches are there to remind him and they should have been on him all second half. How do you know what III and staff is or is not saying to DSR? You are reaching a conclusion with no facts, we have no idea what III us telling DSR. You cannot physically force him to shoot the ball if he has gone gun shy. Copeland started passing up looks against the zone early in the 2nd half because he missed his first couple, then he made one and it built on top of that. I give the credit to the coaches for putting Cope in position to make the play, but they cannot make him take the shot. At some point it is on the players. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 14, 2015 10:54:06 GMT -5
Xavier did a great job of denying DSR yesterday, especially when no one else was making shots.
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 14, 2015 10:57:57 GMT -5
Well said. I dont know how, after 2 games where we got it handed to us against the 1-3-1, that we continued to try to run "the offense" against it. The 1-3-1 is perfect against a team that does handoffs at the top of the key and refuses to make skip passes. Copeland is the only guy on our roster who seems to have any idea how to beat a zone - catch the ball in the middle of it, quickly turn and shoot and crash the boards. And its not because JT3 told him to do that - its his innate ability and knowledge of the game. We got down by 20 with Bowen in there for "defense" and Jabril trying to plow through the zone with his head down. Having a guy like Bowen in there against the zone is honestly mind boggling. I still dont have confidence in this team because of the comeback. I like the onions of the guys, but in game coaching and making adjustments when things are going wrong is a major weak spot. I do not disagree with everything you write, I agree 100% about Bowen's usage vs a zone. However, this is a classic example of giving all the credit to the player (Copeland) for being in position against the zone and discrediting the staff as having nothing to do with it. Ever since the Marquette game where they stymied us with the 2-3 zone III has used Copeland as the guy along the baseline and at the elbow to take that 12 footer. Incredible to think the coaches have nothing to do with the strategy against the zone which was missing prior to that MU game and appeared in the following game. Are we to believe that it was Copeland watching the film and coming up with this strategy on his own in spite of III? Now, even when players are put in position to succeed, it is the players not the coaches who deserve the credit? - this is amazing. And if you were paying attention just 2 games ago, III goes to a zone defense against Creighton and turns the entire game upside down on them. That counts as in game coaching - even if it does not fit your narrative. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Mar 14, 2015 11:13:42 GMT -5
That is when coaching coaching comes in. Call a timeout and get their confidence up, let them know how it's looking from outside, have an aside 1on1 with DSR to get him to shoot more, etc... Nine shots from DSR in an elimination game? I'm one of DSR's biggest fans from the beginning, but 9 shots?! From the camera shots, DSR was clearly frustrated and became gun shy. No sense in banging your head at the bench or clapping your hands to get yourself going. Just shoot, shooter. The coaches are there to remind him and they should have been on him all second half. How do you know what III and staff is or is not saying to DSR? You are reaching a conclusion with no facts, we have no idea what III us telling DSR. You cannot physically force him to shoot the ball if he has gone gun shy. Copeland started passing up looks against the zone early in the 2nd half because he missed his first couple, then he made one and it built on top of that. I give the credit to the coaches for putting Cope in position to make the play, but they cannot make him take the shot. At some point it is on the players. Don't get me wrong. I have no idea what he says or does not. I was saying what should be going on, not that the staff is not doing it. What we have seen when the cameras come into their huddle is a very calm JT3 saying stuff like: "continue to play your game", "what are you guys seeing out there?", and not much more. Don't get me wrong again: I bet he plays to the camera and you're not going to see more of him than what he wants to show. As to DSR, he needs to shoot the team out of trouble even if he's the focus. He's that good. |
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 14, 2015 11:19:28 GMT -5
Just to defend the Bowen usage real quick. You can break a zone in different way other then just passing, especially when a team plays such an extended 1-3-1 as last night. If you drive into the teeth of the zone, you can cause the wing, point, and even C to collapse on the driver. Nothing else at the time was working, so I was fine with giving Bowen a shot. The comeback came about because Copeland realized his job is zone killer but he wasn't doing his job early on when X showed the 1-3-1. JT3 made adjustments and tried different things, the players just couldn't execute until the last 8 minutes. That just as much them getting tired after their late OT game as it was JT3 making changes. Hell for people complaining JT3 didn't try anything, he put Smith and Hop out there together for a little bit. We haven't seen that in months, but JT3 was trying ANYTHING to get the team going. no there is little defense for Bowens usage given the strategy you propose in attacking the 1-3-1. If you are going to attack it you need the talent to dribble have vision and the ability to execute a pass to an open shooter or to attack baseline which was open the entire game. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Mar 14, 2015 11:26:41 GMT -5
Just to defend the Bowen usage real quick. You can break a zone in different way other then just passing, especially when a team plays such an extended 1-3-1 as last night. If you drive into the teeth of the zone, you can cause the wing, point, and even C to collapse on the driver. Nothing else at the time was working, so I was fine with giving Bowen a shot. The comeback came about because Copeland realized his job is zone killer but he wasn't doing his job early on when X showed the 1-3-1. JT3 made adjustments and tried different things, the players just couldn't execute until the last 8 minutes. That just as much them getting tired after their late OT game as it was JT3 making changes. Hell for people complaining JT3 didn't try anything, he put Smith and Hop out there together for a little bit. We haven't seen that in months, but JT3 was trying ANYTHING to get the team going. no there is little defense for Bowens usage given the strategy you propose in attacking the 1-3-1. If you are going to attack it you need the talent to dribble have vision and the ability to execute a pass to an open shooter or to attack baseline which was open the entire game. The edefense for the Bowen usage is simple: defense. I would not have had him out there, but I imagine that JTIII wanted his defense and possible transition offense that could come from a Bowen steal. |
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 14, 2015 11:32:50 GMT -5
Well said. I dont know how, after 2 games where we got it handed to us against the 1-3-1, that we continued to try to run "the offense" against it. The 1-3-1 is perfect against a team that does handoffs at the top of the key and refuses to make skip passes. Copeland is the only guy on our roster who seems to have any idea how to beat a zone - catch the ball in the middle of it, quickly turn and shoot and crash the boards. And its not because JT3 told him to do that - its his innate ability and knowledge of the game. We got down by 20 with Bowen in there for "defense" and Jabril trying to plow through the zone with his head down. Having a guy like Bowen in there against the zone is honestly mind boggling. I still dont have confidence in this team because of the comeback. I like the onions of the guys, but in game coaching and making adjustments when things are going wrong is a major weak spot. I do not disagree with everything you write, I agree 100% about Bowen's usage vs a zone. However, this is a classic example of giving all the credit to the player (Copeland) for being in position against the zone and discrediting the staff as having nothing to do with it. Ever since the Marquette game where they stymied us with the 2-3 zone III has used Copeland as the guy along the baseline and at the elbow to take that 12 footer. Incredible to think the coaches have nothing to do with the strategy against the zone which was missing prior to that MU game and appeared in the following game. Are we to believe that it was Copeland watching the film and coming up with this strategy on his own in spite of III? Now, even when players are put in position to succeed, it is the players not the coaches who deserve the credit? - this is amazing. And if you were paying attention just 2 games ago, III goes to a zone defense against Creighton and turns the entire game upside down on them. That counts as in game coaching - even if it does not fit your narrative. Exactly - the anti-JTIII agenda of euro leaps off the page. If we don't break the zone it is 100% the coach's fault. If we do, it is 0% on the coach - it is the "innate ability and knowledge of the game" of Ike. Silly, ludicrous and intellectually dishonest post. |
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Mar 14, 2015 11:39:35 GMT -5
For what it's worth. . .plus/minus from last night's game, per guhoyas.com:
White +9, Copeland +6, Smith-Rivera +3, Trawick +1, Bowen even, Smith -3, Hopkins -4, Peak -7, Campbell -13.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Mar 14, 2015 11:50:51 GMT -5
To beat 1-3-1 you need forwards/big guards to make shots from the corner/baseline. That is the most vulnerable spot in the 1-3-1. In years past that was where Summers, Freeman, Hollis, Otto burned zones.
Xavier had a simple strategy of making players other than DSR shoot jumpers. Once we made a few threes last night and they had to shade and close out on the corner then the passes and drives into the paint opened up. Made jumpers are the magic ingredient in any offensive strategy.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 14, 2015 12:06:43 GMT -5
I just keep getting the feeling in these tournament games that we too often "are bringing a knife to a gunfight". The 3 point shot is HUGE and you must have at least 2 guys on the floor who can make at least 35-40% of them. Even if they have an off night it opens up the paint. Feinstein pointed out that the 3 point shot is the reason it's taken 40 years to have another undefeated team. For whatever reason we seem to recruit guys who supposedly can shoot 3s (Reggie?) but flame out when they put on a Hoya jersey. Maybe its the Big Man philosophy and we spend too much time trying to get it to the big man. But when we take 15 -20 3s and hit 7-8 we are such a better team. Nova hit 17 the other night. Their big men aren't that good but when you can shoot the 3 it makes them so much more effective. Every year we come up against teams who crush us with 3 point shooters. Next year I expect Tre and Copeland to complement DSR and give us that kind of capability. It would be nice if we saw it next week. Otherwise I'm afraid we may have another early exit.
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Mar 14, 2015 12:10:27 GMT -5
Not a new sentiment by any means, but yesterday was a microcosm of the season---we have all the pieces, but they don't always seem to click. But when they do...hoo boy...
At this point all we should expect from White on offense is to play simple, not turn the ball over, and hit a couple open threes when he gets then
From Tre, good harrying defense, to provide some spacing, and hit a few shots
From LJ, get into the lane a few times to keep them honest
From Ike, if we want to go deep? We need the MAN who almost single handedly went on a 15-1 run yesterday.
I think we know more or less what we will get from DSR, Jabril, Hop and Josh.
We don't need the best game of all time from every player, but to make a run, we need pretty much everyone contributing. Will we do it? Dunno. But can we?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Mar 14, 2015 12:49:56 GMT -5
To beat 1-3-1 you need forwards/big guards to make shots from the corner/baseline. That is the most vulnerable spot in the 1-3-1. In years past that was where Summers, Freeman, Hollis, Otto burned zones. Xavier had a simple strategy of making players other than DSR shoot jumpers. Once we made a few threes last night and they had to shade and close out on the corner then the passes and drives into the paint opened up. Made jumpers are the magic ingredient in any offensive strategy. Ike is pretty much the only guy with that baseline jumper. We got him the open 15 footer on our first possession of the second half, but he missed it, and seemed to lose his confidence for the next 10 minutes. |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 14, 2015 12:52:02 GMT -5
Well actually I think that the problem is that we do not have all the pieces. We do not have enough shooters to run our offense. We have two incomplete posts--one who cannot play offense but rebounds and defends well and one who cannot play defense or stay out of foul trouble. We have a streaky star guard without a shooter's mentality. Jabril is all heart and sometimes not enough head. Bowen runs, jumps and scores from within 5 feet but struggles from the outside.Freshmen with great potential but still young and still learning and still erratic. Talent? Yes, no question. But the real issue is whether our talent "fits" the system and is complementary.
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Post by hibbertfor3 on Mar 14, 2015 13:00:19 GMT -5
please where can I find a box score and a newspaper account if the game. thanks |
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