BET Semis 3/14/15: Georgetown - Xavier Discussion

[HometownHoya]

Mar 14, 2015 0:15:02 GMT -5 WVHoyasfan said:

Can you guys honestly tell me that you have been happy with our success or lack of in the Big East tourney and mainly in the Ncaa tourney by these Gtown teams under JT3?

That's not what you've said in your previous posts though.

Of course no one is happy with NCAA results. But it is a single elimination tournament and happens. We've been very unlucky with how often it has happened. If there is a way to lose in the tournament, we've done it. Now I don't think that is an institutional problem stemming from JTIII. He's done a ton of different things every year and has adapted. Yes many things are still the same because he's not going to become a new person.

Like many others on here, I don't judge based on one games performance (or at least try not to). Look at the big picture: we're getting top recruiting classes, we're making the NCAA (necessary to even have a chance to win or lose), and our program off the court is a standard of the basketball world. Can you honestly tell me that you are that unhappy with JT3?

[mfk24]

Mar 14, 2015 0:15:02 GMT -5 WVHoyasfan said:

Can you guys honestly tell me that you have been happy with our success or lack of in the Big East tourney and mainly in the Ncaa tourney by these Gtown teams?

Of course not, I want to win! But its certainly not because JTIII doesn't "fire them up" or "get mad". It's a single elimination tournament and it's all about match-ups. We've lost 2 early games we shouldn't have, Ohio and FGCU, but the VCU game without Chris, losing to a solid NC State team in the second round, losing to Davidson with Curry who is one of the best players in the NBA right now, really can't or at least shouldn't be thrown into the same conversation. We obviously need to win a few tournaments games and this year we have as good a chance as any.

[SaxaCD]

Mar 14, 2015 0:20:45 GMT -5 tashoya said:

Mar 14, 2015 0:15:02 GMT -5 WVHoyasfan said:

Can you guys honestly tell me that you have been happy with our success or lack of in the Big East tourney and mainly in the Ncaa tourney by these Gtown teams under JT3?

What makes this a ridiculous question is its complete lack of context with your fairly transparent agenda behind it. No one is psyched about how the postseason has gone but people disagree greatly as to why the "failures" have occurred. On top of that, anyone that says that it's all because of coaching is, frankly, wrong.

Worst part about the runner was that he got by the first line of defense, and had an easy short shot. The cope of the second half would have drilled that one.

[HoyaChris]

Mar 14, 2015 0:03:43 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

It was nice to see Copeland step up after having been MIA offensively for the last 4 and a half games. He's really the key to the post season because he gives us that 3rd offensive weapon that can open up the offense. He really needs to aggressively keep shooting and scoring and take alot of shots.

White hitting the key three hopefully that will help his confidence.

As far as the alleyoop I thought that was a rookie mistake by White at a key juncture in the game. It was a five point lead with a chance to cut it to three with plenty of time. An alleyoop, especially from that far away is just such a risky play at that point in the game because not connecting is basically a turnover which is what happened. That basically put us back and lost us about 30-45 seconds as it took about that long to bring the score back down to five.

I vehemently disagree that the alley-oop represented a rookie mistake by Paul White. DSR huddled with White and Copeland at midcourt before the play, the play was wide open and if the pass is 6 inches lower we probably win and spend the next 20 years talking about the play.

[SaxaCD]

Mar 14, 2015 0:37:51 GMT -5 HoyaChris said:

Mar 14, 2015 0:03:43 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

It was nice to see Copeland step up after having been MIA offensively for the last 4 and a half games. He's really the key to the post season because he gives us that 3rd offensive weapon that can open up the offense. He really needs to aggressively keep shooting and scoring and take alot of shots.

White hitting the key three hopefully that will help his confidence.

As far as the alleyoop I thought that was a rookie mistake by White at a key juncture in the game. It was a five point lead with a chance to cut it to three with plenty of time. An alleyoop, especially from that far away is just such a risky play at that point in the game because not connecting is basically a turnover which is what happened. That basically put us back and lost us about 30-45 seconds as it took about that long to bring the score back down to five.

I vehemently disagree that the alley-oop represented a rookie mistake by Paul White. DSR huddled with White and Copeland at midcourt before the play, the play was wide open and if the pass is 6 inches lower we probably win and spend the next 20 years talking about the play.

I agree, that play worked to perfection, but White just tossed it a bit high. Maybe rookie execution on that one, but the play itself was perfect, and caught Xavier napping 100%.

[canissaxa]

Mar 14, 2015 0:15:02 GMT -5 WVHoyasfan said:

Can you guys honestly tell me that you have been happy with our success or lack of in the Big East tourney and mainly in the Ncaa tourney by these Gtown teams under JT3?

I can honestly tell you that I have been disappointed by the lack of a mute button on this board.

[guru]

Having now had the chance to have a few sorrows-drowning beers I think I net out tonight at this: I was appalled and embarrassed by what happened in the middle of the game. I was impressed and proud of the comeback. All in all not the disaster that it appeared to be 3/4 of the way through. But still, Xavier beat us three times this season. That amazes me. And we make Stainbrook look like Wilt fricking Chamberlain. We owe them big the next few years. Honestly, F Xavier.


Let's win a few in The tourney and forget tonight ever happened

[DanMcQ]

Stainbrook is the guy in the rec league who looks like a stiff but gets every rebound near him and hits pretty much every shot he takes because he almost never takes shots he can't make. He's better than 3 Plumlees combined. Loved his bullet pass over the press table though.

[WVHoyasfan]

Mar 14, 2015 0:57:11 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Stainbrook is the guy in the rec league who looks like a stiff but gets every rebound near him and hits pretty much every shot he takes because he almost never takes shots he can't make. He's better than 3 Plumlees combined. Loved his bullet pass over the press table though.

lol He looks nothing like a ball player but I got to give it to him.He can play!!

[sleepy]

Side note, I really don't understand how/why refs call that final foul on Xavier that sent Trawick to the line. It just benefits the team committing the foul because had they not called it we would have had Copeland open with a chance to shoot a 3. Same goes for the fouls that we committed they called that put Xavier at the line at the end that have us an advantage. If you are calling a foul and it ONLY benefits the team breaking the rules (aka it won't result in a turnover) DON'T call the foul. It's always boggled the mind that it's accepted behavior even though it flies in the face of the rules.

[blueandgray]

So glad the BET is over for the HOYAS. None of this matters. What matters is what happens this Thursday thru Sunday, and hopefully the weekend after that.

[SaxaCD]

Mar 14, 2015 0:57:11 GMT -5 DanMcQ said:

Stainbrook is the guy in the rec league who looks like a stiff but gets every rebound near him and hits pretty much every shot he takes because he almost never takes shots he can't make. He's better than 3 Plumlees combined. Loved his bullet pass over the press table though.

Easy to hate because he never seems to miss, but I can't hate him anyway -- he seems like an ok guy in pressers, and heck, I wore goggles when I played, too. But he was the one guy I hoped the Hoyas would foul at the end, because for all of his early heroics, he seemed to me to be falling apart the fastest on the floor at the end == the bullet pass to the 4th row, the dribble off the foot, and some really tentative moves down low with the ball in the last few minutes told me he was either spent or the nerves had got him, and I think both. Really wish the refs would have called the foul quicker (or we would have actually fouled him immediately) when he got the ball with 14. whatever seconds.

[KHoyaNYC]

Mar 14, 2015 0:23:28 GMT -5 sleepy said:

Mar 14, 2015 0:10:25 GMT -5 hoyajinx said:

To be fair, we took three 3's in the first half (2 from DSR at 7:48 and 6:22 left and one from Tre at 8:47 left) that were early in the shot clock and from well beyond the arc when Xavier was coming back. I'm not trying to be contentious, but those were bad shots.

In addition to those shots, Copeland had a terrible forced runner, Trawick took a similarly terrible contested three and had at least one bad forced drive that resulted in a contested lay-up. Those are six bad shots just off the top of my head in a ten minute period. I really don't know how you can defend our first half shot selection. DSR makes himself too one dimensional when he makes decisions like he did today.

The Campbell 3 and the trawick drive are two in the first half that I didn't love either but we're not going to agree on which half the shot selection was better overall. In particular, the first 10 mins of the first half we were shooting something like 63 pct and the shots were good! The second half until the 730 min mark, except for a few shots, was a horror show of numerous cruddy looks.

[KHoyaNYC]

Mar 14, 2015 0:39:55 GMT -5 SaxaCD said:

Mar 14, 2015 0:37:51 GMT -5 HoyaChris said:

I vehemently disagree that the alley-oop represented a rookie mistake by Paul White. DSR huddled with White and Copeland at midcourt before the play, the play was wide open and if the pass is 6 inches lower we probably win and spend the next 20 years talking about the play.

I agree, that play worked to perfection, but White just tossed it a bit high. Maybe rookie execution on that one, but the play itself was perfect, and caught Xavier napping 100%.

Agree as well. So close......

[KHoyaNYC]

Off topic, and this isn't much consolation, but I am very excited by our chances in the NCAA Tourney. We have the weapons to make a good if not great run.

[SSHoya]

This game is already in my rear view mirror. New season starts next week. I look for Ike and Paul to play with more confidence going forward. Go Hoyas!

[jwp91]

Of course, DSR doesn't get the foul on the same play that Arch does at the end of both games.....

[GPHoya]

It took far too long to get the right personnel and the right structure on the floor to attack the 1-3-1 which is a junk defense that should not be sustainable against a well-coached team with adequate talent. As noted, Copeland had a good shot against it from the short corner which he missed late in the first half, but after another miss of a good shot in the second half he sat long stretches of the second half while players without the skills to flash from high post to short corner for mid-range shots (like Bowen) frittered away crucial minutes. Copeland needs to just keep shooting and to be infused with a shooter's confidence that the next one will be good. Trawick somehow believes that putting his head down and driving into the pile will produce results in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary. If Copeland had the same belief system with his talents, we would have something. As it is, thank God that Bril has a pair.

Quick passes over the zone or dribble penetration into it are the formula which should have been engrained in III's head from the Beihlein days of 1-3-1 at WVU, but if he knew what to do and how to attack it, he forgot or failed to communicate it effectively until finally in the run which came too late when he placed Copeland and White on the floor together and achieved proper spacing with personnel capable of making mid-range shots. If Copeland were on the floor missing good shots for sustained periods, it is on the players. This was on the Coach and he must know it.

This doesn't make him a horrible coach, but he had a horrible game and had problems coaching against Mack and Cooley all year. Apart from Tyler Adams who inspires me and I sense his teammates, I have no clear idea of what III gets from his assistants to help him make tactical and substitution judgments. My guess is that there were 500 knowledgeable Georgetown fans in the building last night who could have told him to get Copeland in and have him flash and shoot, but if an assistant told him that, he didn't have the trust to listen until too frigging late. That DSR appeared not to be aware that he had committed his 4th foul until it was posted on the scoreboard gave me pause as to the communications flow.

Credit to Stainbrook and for that matter to Hop who played good defense most of the time and to the officials who let them bump without calling cheap fouls. DSR was bumped more significantly on his layup at 14 seconds than Arciadiacono was at the end of the Nova game, but Pat Driscoll is a good ref who doesn't call that for either player. Totally agree with HoyaChris on the White lob to Copeland which DSR called. A great play with an execution mistake. You live with that.

I will not miss watching Josh Smith. Sorry, but I won't. I will miss Hopkins because the effort is always there. Needed to use our 1st half timeout before Josh committed his second against Macura (he annoys me more than anyone in the league) when it was clear for three prior possessions that he was totally gassed. When DSR plays poorly, we lose. That we won as much as we have, is to his credit, but like Otto Porter and Jeff Green (who are more talented) he does not play great every game.

If DSR can play two great games next weekend, if Copeland can attack with confidence, if the match-ups are right, we can get through next weekend and feel ok about this season. I am not expecting it. If we are on to next year after the expected occurs, I sure hope that there is a Moses Ayegba type (better would be nice) looking to make a fifth year move so we have 10 fouls to spend at the 5 next year as one freshmen center and an unproven power forward transfer will create a deficiency that the other very nice pieces will be unlikely to surmount on a consistent and reliable basis (do not mention Bradley Hayes as anything more than evidence of the gravity of the looming problem). I would love to see DSR go out with a Big East title and a run into the Regionals, but we need help to make that a decent prospect.

I am tired on leaving town on Saturday mornings and the Big East Tournament still matters to me--right with a sweet 16 showing in terms of equivalent value.

[calhoya]

Disappointing performance overall in my opinion. Not unexpected considering the matchup but still disappointing. At the beginning of the season you look for moral or symbolic victories, like the loss to a very strong Wisconsin team. After 30+ games this team should expect more of itself. Not criticizing the shooting as that is a skill that is simply not a strength of this team. Similarly, rebounding against a big Xavier squad is going to be difficult. However, there are many problems that should have been corrected by now. Throughout the middle of the game there was a complete loss of composure by the team in running its offense and defense. Not just the freshmen, but everyone. Xavier was getting to all the loose balls and Hoya players stopped running the offense, passing up shots that they should take, forcing shots when there was no reason and reverting to passing the ball around the perimeter with no apparent idea what to do. The defense was just as bad.

The out-of-control forced bull rushes into the lane by Trawick and Peak in particular are not something to be touted, even if they result in a basket or foul. I know that Trawick got to the line last night at the end and did well, but that has been the exception more than the rule this year. Often there are charging fouls and wild ,contested shots that have no chance of going in. Not targeting Trawick who is the heart and soul of this team. Just saying that as a senior, he cannot always "will" the team to victory with his heart. As for DSR, I would rather lose with him shooting his way out of a slump than deferring to others who are not accurate from deep. Smith--what can you say at this point? Hoya fans and coaches look at him and see the incredible potential, but potential has not equalled production because of his conditioning problems. Like others, I have been angered by some of the fouls called against him, but this does not mask the reality that most fouls are legitimate and his body renders him a liability on defense and limits his playing time in almost every game.

This team is limited and a work in progress. The payoff may come in a year or two if they all stay. However, that does not make a performance like last night (or the night before) any less frustrating. They are currently capable of much more and should be expected to perform at a more consistent level. If they do not we will be writing about next season about this time next week.

[KHoyaNYC]

Mar 14, 2015 8:03:42 GMT -5 GPHoya said:

It took far too long to get the right personnel and the right structure on the floor to attack the 1-3-1 which is a junk defense that should not be sustainable against a well-coached team with adequate talent. As noted, Copeland had a good shot against it from the short corner which he missed late in the first half, but after another miss of a good shot in the second half he sat long stretches of the second half while players without the skills to flash from high post to short corner for mid-range shots (like Bowen) frittered away crucial minutes. Copeland needs to just keep shooting and to be infused with a shooter's confidence that the next one will be good. Trawick somehow believes that putting his head down and driving into the pile will produce results in the face of substantial evidence to the contrary. If Copeland had the same belief system with his talents, we would have something. As it is, thank God that Bril has a pair.

Quick passes over the zone or dribble penetration into it are the formula which should have been engrained in III's head from the Beihlein days of 1-3-1 at WVU, but if he knew what to do and how to attack it, he forgot or failed to communicate it effectively until finally in the run which came too late when he placed Copeland and White on the floor together and achieved proper spacing with personnel capable of making mid-range shots. If Copeland were on the floor missing good shots for sustained periods, it is on the players. This was on the Coach and he must know it.

This doesn't make him a horrible coach, but he had a horrible game and had problems coaching against Mack and Cooley all year. Apart from Tyler Adams who inspires me and I sense his teammates, I have no clear idea of what III gets from his assistants to help him make tactical and substitution judgments. My guess is that there were 500 knowledgeable Georgetown fans in the building last night who could have told him to get Copeland in and have him flash and shoot, but if an assistant told him that, he didn't have the trust to listen until too frigging late. That DSR appeared not to be aware that he had committed his 4th foul until it was posted on the scoreboard gave me pause as to the communications flow.

Credit to Stainbrook and for that matter to Hop who played good defense most of the time and to the officials who let them bump without calling cheap fouls. DSR was bumped more significantly on his layup at 14 seconds than Arciadiacono was at the end of the Nova game, but Pat Driscoll is a good ref who doesn't call that for either player. Totally agree with HoyaChris on the White lob to Copeland which DSR called. A great play with an execution mistake. You live with that.

I will not miss watching Josh Smith. Sorry, but I won't. I will miss Hopkins because the effort is always there. Needed to use our 1st half timeout before Josh committed his second against Macura (he annoys me more than anyone in the league) when it was clear for three prior possessions that he was totally gassed. When DSR plays poorly, we lose. That we won as much as we have, is to his credit, but like Otto Porter and Jeff Green (who are more talented) he does not play great every game.

If DSR can play two great games next weekend, if Copeland can attack with confidence, if the match-ups are right, we can get through next weekend and feel ok about this season. I am not expecting it. If we are on to next year after the expected occurs, I sure hope that there is a Moses Ayegba type (better would be nice) looking to make a fifth year move so we have 10 fouls to spend at the 5 next year as one freshmen center and an unproven power forward transfer will create a deficiency that the other very nice pieces will be unlikely to surmount on a consistent and reliable basis (do not mention Bradley Hayes as anything more than evidence of the gravity of the looming problem). I would love to see DSR go out with a Big East title and a run into the Regionals, but we need help to make that a decent prospect.

I am tired on leaving town on Saturday mornings and the Big East Tournament still matters to me--right with a sweet 16 showing in terms of equivalent value.

Hop had a great second half on defense. Kept his arms up, forced Stainbrook away from middle, really nice work.