Jack
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Post by Jack on Mar 10, 2015 14:26:44 GMT -5
So that is a different story - I thought we were talking about how many people would buy the remaining available tickets depending on who is playing Saturday night, not who travels best overall. Because I am pretty sure those Creighton folks thronging the Affinia last year didn't fly in from Nebraska on Saturday morning on a wing and a prayer, regardless of whether their ticket strip came from the original Creighton allotment. And I don't know whether the Georgetown fan base has changed significantly, but it would be nice to test out our ardor by making a run - recent years have not provided a meaningful opportunity to replicate the type of crowd I saw in East Rutherford (or Atlanta) in 2007.
ETA: I am curious to see what kind of crowd Butler brings this year - they didn't have much to cheer about last year.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Mar 10, 2015 14:54:13 GMT -5
Maybe its just me, but I have never been less interested in the outcome of the BET. My sole concern is being rested and healthy for the NCAA's and I have little concern over whether we are a 6 seed or a 4 seed. Under JT3 there has been little to no correlation between a deep run in the BET and NCAA tourney success. Given that we are comfortably in the tourney, the risk of wearing ourselves out with 3 games in 2.5 days does nothing for me. Not sure about everyone else, but I would gladly trade and loss in the opening round of the BET for a single win in the NCAA's. I'm not sure if winning the BET would carry any weight in terms of how we are perceived nationally, getting to the 2nd weekend on the big tourney would however. Its "a good showing in the NCAA's, or bust" as far as I am concerned.
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Mar 10, 2015 15:10:23 GMT -5
My brain agrees but my heart would love to see us lift that BET trophy on Saturday night in the Garden. Especially if that's Nova on the sidelines. Also I don't think 3 games in 2.5 days will wear us down and just might tighten us up for a tourney run.
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HoyaChris
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Post by HoyaChris on Mar 10, 2015 15:12:39 GMT -5
I am pretty sure that the only time we won the BET under III we went to the Final Four. That feels like a pretty strong correlation
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 15:27:57 GMT -5
Maybe its just me, but I have never been less interested in the outcome of the BET. My sole concern is being rested and healthy for the NCAA's and I have little concern over whether we are a 6 seed or a 4 seed. Under JT3 there has been little to no correlation between a deep run in the BET and NCAA tourney success. Given that we are comfortably in the tourney, the risk of wearing ourselves out with 3 games in 2.5 days does nothing for me. Not sure about everyone else, but I would gladly trade and loss in the opening round of the BET for a single win in the NCAA's. I'm not sure if winning the BET would carry any weight in terms of how we are perceived nationally, getting to the 2nd weekend on the big tourney would however. Its "a good showing in the NCAA's, or bust" as far as I am concerned. This is basically the same post I wrote last week. The only thing that matters now is the NCAA tournament. It is the only way to repair the program's national reputation and to begin to rebuild on-campus and ticket-base enthusiasm. Win or lose in the BET, if we lose in the NCAAs, we cannot accomplish those things. No one is going to buy tickets to see DePaul at Verizon on Tuesday night next January because Georgetown carried home the BET trophy but failed again to meet expectations in the NCAA tournament (which will only go hope from here if in fact we do win the BET). But lose Thursday and make the Sweet Sixteen? Butts in the seats, my friend. Credibility restored. A first step towards erasing the Gtown-as-choker label. A related, though slightly different question is the one about what determines at least in the irrational mind of the fan and media, whether this season is a success or a failure. I could see a decent case for the idea that if we lose Thursday, then expectations (and seeding) will adjust such that simply being in the tournament will feel like an achievement, and any NCAA wins will be gravy (even as a 6 seed). On the other hand, if we get deeper into the BET with some victories and move up to a 5 seed or higher, then failing to win the first NCAA game would probably make the whole season feel like yet another failure. And of course if we get all the way up to a 4 seed by winning the BET, failing to go chalk and make the Sweet 16 would make the season feel like a failure. Given that the team that will play next week is the same one that will play on Thursday, but in light of the emotional power of perception, expectations, and the burden of seeds, it may be the case that the easiest path (not the best, not the highest-upside) to emotional happiness for all of us is two consecutive losses here. Just a thought.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 10, 2015 15:29:19 GMT -5
Maybe its just me, but I have never been less interested in the outcome of the BET. My sole concern is being rested and healthy for the NCAA's and I have little concern over whether we are a 6 seed or a 4 seed. Under JT3 there has been little to no correlation between a deep run in the BET and NCAA tourney success. Given that we are comfortably in the tourney, the risk of wearing ourselves out with 3 games in 2.5 days does nothing for me. Not sure about everyone else, but I would gladly trade and loss in the opening round of the BET for a single win in the NCAA's. I'm not sure if winning the BET would carry any weight in terms of how we are perceived nationally, getting to the 2nd weekend on the big tourney would however. Its "a good showing in the NCAA's, or bust" as far as I am concerned. Disagree completely, but for totally personal and local reasons. To each his own.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 15:32:27 GMT -5
Maybe its just me, but I have never been less interested in the outcome of the BET. My sole concern is being rested and healthy for the NCAA's and I have little concern over whether we are a 6 seed or a 4 seed. Under JT3 there has been little to no correlation between a deep run in the BET and NCAA tourney success. Given that we are comfortably in the tourney, the risk of wearing ourselves out with 3 games in 2.5 days does nothing for me. Not sure about everyone else, but I would gladly trade and loss in the opening round of the BET for a single win in the NCAA's. I'm not sure if winning the BET would carry any weight in terms of how we are perceived nationally, getting to the 2nd weekend on the big tourney would however. Its "a good showing in the NCAA's, or bust" as far as I am concerned. Disagree completely, but for totally personal and local reasons. To each his own. I can totally see if you have tickets in hand and live in the area, you are really pumped for this weekend. I would share that feeling. But I think if you take that component away and look at the objective big picture, the games this weekend mean little, and can be erased easily by a contrary performance (good or bad) in the NCAAs.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 10, 2015 15:40:36 GMT -5
Disagree completely, but for totally personal and local reasons. To each his own. I can totally see if you have tickets in hand and live in the area, you are really pumped for this weekend. I would share that feeling. But I think if you take that component away and look at the objective big picture, the games this weekend mean little, and can be erased easily by a contrary performance (good or bad) in the NCAAs. Oh I don't disagree with the larger point about perception of the program. I was merely saying that personally, I prefer winning the BET to advancing to the second week in the NCAAs, even the sweet 16...just because of the actual experience of attending the BET. There is nothing like experiencing in person a deep run in that tournament that results in the Hoyas cutting down the nets.
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Locker
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Post by Locker on Mar 10, 2015 15:43:00 GMT -5
I was just randomly thinking this week about the 2007 BET tournament semi against Notre Dame -- Russell Carter with his stupid wagging tongue, and Jeff Green with the tough game winner. Hadn't thought of that game for a while. I remember how crazy fun it was to watch, and to root for the Hoyas that night.
It would be awesome to play in a similar kind of game this week. Maybe we will, maybe we won't -- but hope springs eternal.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 10, 2015 15:43:46 GMT -5
We make a sweet sixteen run, and next year we are a final four contender, just like 2006-07. Or maybe next year's team is an updated version of 1981-82, with a senior scoring guard and a hyped up freshman center.
We bow out in the first / second round? It's "JT3 can't win in the tournament" all off season, and next year is, once again, all about whether we can win against a lower seeded team.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 15:57:24 GMT -5
I can totally see if you have tickets in hand and live in the area, you are really pumped for this weekend. I would share that feeling. But I think if you take that component away and look at the objective big picture, the games this weekend mean little, and can be erased easily by a contrary performance (good or bad) in the NCAAs. Oh I don't disagree with the larger point about perception of the program. I was merely saying that personally, I prefer winning the BET to advancing to the second week in the NCAAs, even the sweet 16...just because of the actual experience of attending the BET. There is nothing like experiencing in person a deep run in that tournament that results in the Hoyas cutting down the nets. I have attended NCAA tournament games--though only one Hoyas game--and I suspect you could get a similar feeling from spending the weekend in the first round city and seeing 2 wins to get to the Sweet Sixteen. People who were in Boise in 2001 or wherever we were in 2007, weigh in.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 15:58:16 GMT -5
We make a sweet sixteen run, and next year we are a final four contender, just like 2006-07. Or maybe next year's team is an updated version of 1981-82, with a senior scoring guard and a hyped up freshman center. We bow out in the first / second round? It's "JT3 can't win in the tournament" all off season, and next year is, once again, all about whether we can win against a lower seeded team. If we lose in the 2nd round to a higher seed, those complaints would be really stupid.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 15:59:08 GMT -5
I was just randomly thinking this week about the 2007 BET tournament semi against Notre Dame -- Russell Carter with his stupid wagging tongue, and Jeff Green with the tough game winner. Hadn't thought of that game for a while. I remember how crazy fun it was to watch, and to root for the Hoyas that night. It would be awesome to play in a similar kind of game this week. Maybe we will, maybe we won't -- but hope springs eternal. That was awesome. I will be interested to hear whether the "new" BET is capable of matching that intensity.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 10, 2015 16:03:15 GMT -5
We make a sweet sixteen run, and next year we are a final four contender, just like 2006-07. Or maybe next year's team is an updated version of 1981-82, with a senior scoring guard and a hyped up freshman center. We bow out in the first / second round? It's "JT3 can't win in the tournament" all off season, and next year is, once again, all about whether we can win against a lower seeded team. Hard to argue this, well put.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Mar 10, 2015 16:06:27 GMT -5
Oh I don't disagree with the larger point about perception of the program. I was merely saying that personally, I prefer winning the BET to advancing to the second week in the NCAAs, even the sweet 16...just because of the actual experience of attending the BET. There is nothing like experiencing in person a deep run in that tournament that results in the Hoyas cutting down the nets. I have attended NCAA tournament games--though only one Hoyas game--and I suspect you could get a similar feeling from spending the weekend in the first round city and seeing 2 wins to get to the Sweet Sixteen. People who were in Boise in 2001 or wherever we were in 2007, weigh in. There is something different about beating your conference rivals and doing it in MSG. As a Bostonian, I don't buy into a Manhattan-centric world view, but I have seen Georgetown win plenty of tournament games in places like Providence and Hartford and I am certain that those did not have the same feeling as celebrating a victory deep into a Saturday night in NYC. I will confess that it may be a bit different now that the conference rivals are no longer quite so hated, and I will also allow the possibility that alcohol sales inside the Garden (and lack thereof at NCAA venues) may have contributed to the celebratory feel of those games. Finally, the feeling after the win against UNC at the Meadowlands in 2007 was even sweeter.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 16:08:34 GMT -5
I have attended NCAA tournament games--though only one Hoyas game--and I suspect you could get a similar feeling from spending the weekend in the first round city and seeing 2 wins to get to the Sweet Sixteen. People who were in Boise in 2001 or wherever we were in 2007, weigh in. There is something different about beating your conference rivals and doing it in MSG. As a Bostonian, I don't buy into a Manhattan-centric world view, but I have seen Georgetown win plenty of tournament games in places like Providence and Hartford and I am certain that those did not have the same feeling as celebrating a victory deep into a Saturday night in NYC. I will confess that it may be a bit different now that the conference rivals are no longer quite so hated, and I will also allow the possibility that alcohol sales inside the Garden (and lack thereof at NCAA venues) may have contributed to the celebratory feel of those games. Finally, the feeling after the win against UNC at the Meadowlands in 2007 was even sweeter. Jack, you are so on to something here with the alcohol point. It actually makes a huge difference.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Mar 10, 2015 16:13:16 GMT -5
I have attended NCAA tournament games--though only one Hoyas game--and I suspect you could get a similar feeling from spending the weekend in the first round city and seeing 2 wins to get to the Sweet Sixteen. People who were in Boise in 2001 or wherever we were in 2007, weigh in. There is something different about beating your conference rivals and doing it in MSG. As a Bostonian, I don't buy into a Manhattan-centric world view, but I have seen Georgetown win plenty of tournament games in places like Providence and Hartford and I am certain that those did not have the same feeling as celebrating a victory deep into a Saturday night in NYC. I will confess that it may be a bit different now that the conference rivals are no longer quite so hated, and I will also allow the possibility that alcohol sales inside the Garden (and lack thereof at NCAA venues) may have contributed to the celebratory feel of those games. Finally, the feeling after the win against UNC at the Meadowlands in 2007 was even sweeter. Couldn't have put it better myself.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Mar 10, 2015 16:16:48 GMT -5
We make a sweet sixteen run, and next year we are a final four contender, just like 2006-07. Or maybe next year's team is an updated version of 1981-82, with a senior scoring guard and a hyped up freshman center. We bow out in the first / second round? It's "JT3 can't win in the tournament" all off season, and next year is, once again, all about whether we can win against a lower seeded team. If we lose in the 2nd round to a higher seed, those complaints would be really stupid. True. But if we lose in the second round to a higher (or equal seed) we'll still get the "JT3 can't win in the tournament without Jeff Green" all season and the season will be overshadowed by these kinds of questions. Sweet 16 and we can enjoy the ride next year. No Sweet 16 and we get to have these conversations again all next season. And an off season of "what can we change so we can win in the tournament"
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 10, 2015 16:30:14 GMT -5
Ive changed my tune about the BET partly because of what you guys are saying about the NCAAs, not in spite of it. I just think more and more that the NCAAs are an absurd crap shoot. No matter what we do, it's easily possible that we will play exactly the wrong team in the first or second round. At least, the BET feels like a true, fair tourney and teams are seeded exactly because of what they did against the same teams. I will really enjoy the BET this year if we can take care of business.
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog on Mar 10, 2015 16:34:10 GMT -5
Ive changed my tune about the BET partly because of what you guys are saying about the NCAAs, not in spite of it. I just think more and more that the NCAAs are an absurd crap shoot. No matter what we do, it's easily possible that we will play exactly the wrong team in the first or second round. At least, the BET feels like a true, fair tourney and teams are seeded exactly because of what they did against the same teams. I will really enjoy the BET this year if we can take care of business. I agree with this 100% as well. I am over caring what uninformed outsiders (or irrational HoyaTalk insiders!) think of III. But recruit perception and potential ticket-buyer perception do matter and can impact future success. So I'd like to see us remedy that. The problem is this may not be the year to do it regardless, because this is not an elite team.
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