GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 8, 2015 8:48:55 GMT -5
Just admit it. You're wrong. Not at all. I think my take is the more obviously intuitive approach to the situation which is, generally speaking, "do the right thing." Anyway, I think i laid out my reasons above pretty clearly so it's not just reactionary anti-jt3 or anti-jabril screed. If anyone needs to just admit it and say they're wrong it's the people acting like it's no big deal. I understand the desire to want to say our program is in the right but pretty much all social norms dictate otherwise. Now having said that, i respect that you're entitled to your own opinion. You might have different concepts of etiquette, fair play or just what amounts to sportsmanship. (The Larry David avatar makes me think that's what's going on here. God knows he'd never have given them a free basket.) Or maybe you just defend what the program does no matter what. Honestly any of those are fine but we are just worlds apart on assessing what went down and i don't think your comment will change anyone's mind. If someone buys you a beer and you didn't ask them to buy you a beer, it is probably common courtesy to return the favor. However, if you don't immediately buy them a beer, it doesn't mean you are wrong or not classy. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road, III returns the favor. Maybe, in the first game next year. This is all also ridiculous because as GIGA said, to think that Willard would expect something in return defeats the whole purpose of the gesture.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:21:28 GMT -5
Not at all. I think my take is the more obviously intuitive approach to the situation which is, generally speaking, "do the right thing." Anyway, I think i laid out my reasons above pretty clearly so it's not just reactionary anti-jt3 or anti-jabril screed. If anyone needs to just admit it and say they're wrong it's the people acting like it's no big deal. I understand the desire to want to say our program is in the right but pretty much all social norms dictate otherwise. Now having said that, i respect that you're entitled to your own opinion. You might have different concepts of etiquette, fair play or just what amounts to sportsmanship. (The Larry David avatar makes me think that's what's going on here. God knows he'd never have given them a free basket.) Or maybe you just defend what the program does no matter what. Honestly any of those are fine but we are just worlds apart on assessing what went down and i don't think your comment will change anyone's mind. If someone buys you a beer and you didn't ask them to buy you a beer, it is probably common courtesy to return the favor. However, if you don't immediately buy them a beer, it doesn't mean you are wrong or not classy. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road, III returns the favor. Maybe, in the first game next year. This is all also ridiculous because as GIGA said, to think that Willard would expect something in return defeats the whole purpose of the gesture. If somebody buys me a beer, it's during a social situation not during a competition to see who will have the most beers. This was still a game -- and an important one for league standings at that -- and the final score was in doubt the entire way through. Might have been even closer had SHU been down 3 late instead of 5. Maybe Gtown tightens up in that spot. In soccer, when one team stops play and kicks the ball out because an opponent is hurt, the other team ALWAYS plays the ball back to them because they respect the initial gesture and want to try to balance out the competitive aspect of the game. That's what we shoulda done, end of story. It would been doing right by everyone. And yes, when I buy somebody a beer, I never expect that person to buy me one. But when somebody buys me a beer, I sure as hell get the next round.... Look, all the sentimental stuff with Tyler is wonderful for him and the program at large. I don't want to lose sight at the forest-- it was a great day for everyone involved including SHU. And I'm even willing to give a little latitude because it seems like they were caught off guard about what to do after the dunk, as if they weren't expecting. Personally, I think JT3 should have discussed the possibility, and, absent that, given them a bucket after halftime. But am I going to say the moment was a stain on the program? No. It was just something I expected our team to do given the level of class I typically associate with them. Anyway, life will go on and this will be forgotten-- I've already written more about this than I wanted to, and it's mostly just a shame it gets any attention given the special moment Tyler had out there. Now, Jabril's dunk at the end is a different story. That, I have absolutely no explanation for.... Anyway, people can go on arguing this. I think I've made my points and am ready to move on, whoever responds can have the last word....
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hoyainspirit
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When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Mar 8, 2015 9:24:16 GMT -5
I may be in the minority, I don't know, but I liked the dunk at the end. Fitting punctuation to end his home court career.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 8, 2015 9:39:37 GMT -5
Considering "giving other team a free basket after they gave us a free basket" has pretty much never happened in the history of Gtown, I find it interesting that you have come to expect that level of class at Georgetown. But, I'm glad you are willing to give III a little latitude. That's kind of you.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 8, 2015 9:48:13 GMT -5
If someone buys you a beer and you didn't ask them to buy you a beer, it is probably common courtesy to return the favor. However, if you don't immediately buy them a beer, it doesn't mean you are wrong or not classy. Again, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road, III returns the favor. Maybe, in the first game next year. This is all also ridiculous because as GIGA said, to think that Willard would expect something in return defeats the whole purpose of the gesture. If somebody buys me a beer, it's during a social situation not during a competition to see who will have the most beers. This was still a game -- and an important one for league standings at that -- and the final score was in doubt the entire way through. Might have been even closer had SHU been down 3 late instead of 5. Maybe Gtown tightens up in that spot. In soccer, when one team stops play and kicks the ball out because an opponent is hurt, the other team ALWAYS plays the ball back to them because they respect the initial gesture and want to try to balance out the competitive aspect of the game. That's what we shoulda done, end of story. It would been doing right by everyone. And yes, when I buy somebody a beer, I never expect that person to buy me one. But when somebody buys me a beer, I sure as hell get the next round.... Look, all the sentimental stuff with Tyler is wonderful for him and the program at large. I don't want to lose sight at the forest-- it was a great day for everyone involved including SHU. And I'm even willing to give a little latitude because it seems like they were caught off guard about what to do after the dunk, as if they weren't expecting. Personally, I think JT3 should have discussed the possibility, and, absent that, given them a bucket after halftime. But am I going to say the moment was a stain on the program? No. It was just something I expected our team to do given the level of class I typically associate with them. Anyway, life will go on and this will be forgotten-- I've already written more about this than I wanted to, and it's mostly just a shame it gets any attention given the special moment Tyler had out there. Now, Jabril's dunk at the end is a different story. That, I have absolutely no explanation for.... Anyway, people can go on arguing this. I think I've made my points and am ready to move on, whoever responds can have the last word.... SInce they scored on the ensuing possession anyways(with an easy lay-up btw), and we gave up a foul, giving them a gimme basket after the half would have needlessly put us at a disadvantage. At the end of the day the game wasn't impacted at all by us not giving them an uncontested look. If they hadn't scored maybe things would have been different, but not giving them a freebe right after the Adams dunk meant the time had past. We also gave up a foul and were fulling intending on using a time out in that situation without knowing Seton Hall was going to do that, I don't think we went in with the ruthless mindset thinking it was going to benefit us with any points. Maybe III and the team were completely unwilling to concede 2 points to Seton Hall, but I think it's more likely they were more preoccupied with getting Adams in and out thinking they were going to already put themselves at a disadvantage with a loss of a timeout or a foul and in a hole because of the loss of DSR, and just missed the opportunity and then it was too late given how important this game was for our season. Didn't Seton Hall owe us two points anyways for that 6 men on the court fiasco?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:48:55 GMT -5
Considering "giving other team a free basket after they gave us a free basket" has pretty much never happened in the history of Gtown, I find it interesting that you have come to expect that level of class at Georgetown. But, I'm glad you are willing to give III a little latitude. That's kind of you. i know i promised not to respond but i just couldnt let this kind of nonsense go scot free. This has nothing to do with precedent -- of course this has never happened in the history of Gtown, because there's never been a situation quite like that -- but what the basic decency says is the right thing to do. It's a question of principles. Maybe we have different ideas of what constitutes the right thing to do here, and if so, that's fine, but there are enough people on this site and casual hoya that have posted being uncomfortable with how it went down. I think that knowing the class JT3 exemplifies in almost every other situation some of us woulda expected him to match the generosity demonstrated by Willard. I hate it when people put baseless attacks on the man and throw up dumb threads like the "hot seat" but this seems to be a genuine instance where he made a mistake. So save your invective for the posts that are truly trolling JT3. Again you might disagree this Gtown's actions yesterday were below standard, but people shouldn't get all defensive when more than a few people think there'a a very legitimate point to be made here about sportsmanship, especially with Jabril's dunk at the end as a pile-on. Finally, spare me the patronizing "how kind of you". I think Jt3 was in the wrong in this instance but I'm not sure it was a concerted decision to take advantage of Willard's kindness. I'm just not sure he was prepared for the situation or had the time in the heat of a game to think it through. That's all.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Mar 8, 2015 9:54:44 GMT -5
The official PBP shows Adams with a foul at 19:45 (as III was trying to call a timeout). And the box score shows Tyler with 1/1 shooting and 1 PF.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Mar 8, 2015 9:56:28 GMT -5
Okay, I'm officially willing to accept discussion of Bradley Hayes playing time if it means we stop whatever this is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 9:58:26 GMT -5
Okay, I'm officially willing to accept discussion of Bradley Hayes playing time if it means we stop whatever this is. People in the press are asking questions about this. It was a bad look for the school whatever the intentions or miscommunications. Nobody in the press has ever asked about Bradley Hayes
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NCHoya
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Post by NCHoya on Mar 8, 2015 9:58:33 GMT -5
I believe Willard told III his plan in the pre-game and III responded not to do it. That is why III was so effusive with his praise of Willard in the post-game. Willard went forward with it in spite of knowing III would not give him a free basket in kind. This reflects very well on Willard.
We can debate whether III should have reciprocated, but then the basket would be diminished. I kind of liked the way it went down, Adams basket counted for something competitively speaking and that is all because of Willard. III said as much in his post-game.
As for Jabril's dunk, I am OK with it since it was his senior day and it was an exclamation point on his career day. I do not think it was at all intended to be a slight toward SHU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 10:03:03 GMT -5
If somebody buys me a beer, it's during a social situation not during a competition to see who will have the most beers. This was still a game -- and an important one for league standings at that -- and the final score was in doubt the entire way through. Might have been even closer had SHU been down 3 late instead of 5. Maybe Gtown tightens up in that spot. In soccer, when one team stops play and kicks the ball out because an opponent is hurt, the other team ALWAYS plays the ball back to them because they respect the initial gesture and want to try to balance out the competitive aspect of the game. That's what we shoulda done, end of story. It would been doing right by everyone. And yes, when I buy somebody a beer, I never expect that person to buy me one. But when somebody buys me a beer, I sure as hell get the next round.... Look, all the sentimental stuff with Tyler is wonderful for him and the program at large. I don't want to lose sight at the forest-- it was a great day for everyone involved including SHU. And I'm even willing to give a little latitude because it seems like they were caught off guard about what to do after the dunk, as if they weren't expecting. Personally, I think JT3 should have discussed the possibility, and, absent that, given them a bucket after halftime. But am I going to say the moment was a stain on the program? No. It was just something I expected our team to do given the level of class I typically associate with them. Anyway, life will go on and this will be forgotten-- I've already written more about this than I wanted to, and it's mostly just a shame it gets any attention given the special moment Tyler had out there. Now, Jabril's dunk at the end is a different story. That, I have absolutely no explanation for.... Anyway, people can go on arguing this. I think I've made my points and am ready to move on, whoever responds can have the last word.... SInce they scored on the ensuing possession anyways(with an easy lay-up btw), and we gave up a foul, giving them a gimme basket after the half would have needlessly put us at a disadvantage. At the end of the day the game wasn't impacted at all by us not giving them an uncontested look. If they hadn't scored maybe things would have been different, but not giving them a freebe right after the Adams dunk meant the time had past. We also gave up a foul and were fulling intending on using a time out in that situation without knowing Seton Hall was going to do that, I don't think we went in with the ruthless mindset thinking it was going to benefit us with any points. Maybe III and the team were completely unwilling to concede 2 points to Seton Hall, but I think it's more likely they were more preoccupied with getting Adams in and out thinking they were going to already put themselves at a disadvantage with a loss of a timeout or a foul and in a hole because of the loss of DSR, and just missed the opportunity and then it was too late given how important this game was for our season. Didn't Seton Hall owe us two points anyways for that 6 men on the court fiasco? I know you're kidding about the 6 men on the court, but I don't buy the we gave up a foul so it's even and they scored on an easy layup. We gave up the foul to get Adams out of the game which we were going to do anyway since it was our idea to get him for a possession. And easy layup or not, Seton Hall earned their first bucket. Game shoulda started 2-2, and there would have been absolutely no issue about this. OK, this really is my last point on this...
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Mar 8, 2015 10:16:57 GMT -5
You are "not sure whether this was a concerted effort to take advantage of Willard's kindness?" Really? Again, this is basically something that never happens ever. Yes, you can have an opinion but if you are going to keep saying III was wrong, I'm going to keep saying nope.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Mar 8, 2015 10:19:49 GMT -5
SInce they scored on the ensuing possession anyways(with an easy lay-up btw), and we gave up a foul, giving them a gimme basket after the half would have needlessly put us at a disadvantage. At the end of the day the game wasn't impacted at all by us not giving them an uncontested look. If they hadn't scored maybe things would have been different, but not giving them a freebe right after the Adams dunk meant the time had past. We also gave up a foul and were fulling intending on using a time out in that situation without knowing Seton Hall was going to do that, I don't think we went in with the ruthless mindset thinking it was going to benefit us with any points. Maybe III and the team were completely unwilling to concede 2 points to Seton Hall, but I think it's more likely they were more preoccupied with getting Adams in and out thinking they were going to already put themselves at a disadvantage with a loss of a timeout or a foul and in a hole because of the loss of DSR, and just missed the opportunity and then it was too late given how important this game was for our season. Didn't Seton Hall owe us two points anyways for that 6 men on the court fiasco? I know you're kidding about the 6 men on the court, but I don't buy the we gave up a foul so it's even and they scored on an easy layup. We gave up the foul to get Adams out of the game which we were going to do anyway since it was our idea to get him for a possession. And easy layup or not, Seton Hall earned their first bucket. Game shoulda started 2-2, and there would have been absolutely no issue about this. OK, this really is my last point on this... The game DID start 2-2. I agree we should have given them an uncontested basket, but I also understand why it didn't happen. At the end of the day it didn't put Seton Hall at any disadvantage and they got 2 extra free throws out of it. An uncontested basket after the initial play would have put us in a 4-2 and one foul disadvantage, it was too late. And I wasn't exactly saying we gave up a foul and it made us exactly even. I was saying it's not as if Seton Hall got nothing out of the deal and going in thinking you are putting yourself at a disadvantage with one less team foul(for a foul prone team) or one less time out AND without your best player affects your mindset. At the end of the day I haven't heard anyone but that one New Jersey reporter give Georgetown or Seton Hall and Willard anything but praise. It was a win/win for both schools.
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 8, 2015 10:29:49 GMT -5
You are "not sure whether this was a concerted effort to take advantage of Willard's kindness?" Really? Again, this is basically something that never happens ever. Yes, you can have an opinion but if you are going to keep saying III was wrong, I'm going to keep saying nope. He's not kidding about that last part
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 8, 2015 10:31:04 GMT -5
I know you're kidding about the 6 men on the court, but I don't buy the we gave up a foul so it's even and they scored on an easy layup. We gave up the foul to get Adams out of the game which we were going to do anyway since it was our idea to get him for a possession. And easy layup or not, Seton Hall earned their first bucket. Game shoulda started 2-2, and there would have been absolutely no issue about this. OK, this really is my last point on this... The game DID start 2-2. I agree we should have given them an uncontested basket, but I also understand why it didn't happen. At the end of the day it didn't put Seton Hall at any disadvantage and they got 2 extra free throws out of it. An uncontested basket after the initial play would have put us in a 4-2 and one foul disadvantage, it was too late. And I wasn't exactly saying we gave up a foul and it made us exactly even. I was saying it's not as if Seton Hall got nothing out of the deal and going in thinking you are putting yourself at a disadvantage with one less team foul(for a foul prone team) or one less time out AND without your best player affects your mindset. At the end of the day I haven't heard anyone but that one New Jersey reporter give Georgetown or Seton Hall and Willard anything but praise. It was a win/win for both schools. True - in the final analysis, Seton Hall comes out of that game looking great. As does JT3.
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Post by strummer8526 on Mar 8, 2015 10:39:04 GMT -5
Didn't they hit a three after Jabril's dunk? So even if he did sort of pile on an extra two points, SH piled on an extra three. It's not like we succeeded in running up the score. I think it was just Jabril doing something to finish his Verizon career on a memorable note.
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Post by JohnnyJones on Mar 8, 2015 11:00:44 GMT -5
You are "not sure whether this was a concerted effort to take advantage of Willard's kindness?" Really? Again, this is basically something that never happens ever. Yes, you can have an opinion but if you are going to keep saying III was wrong, I'm going to keep saying nope. Ok so what would your reaction have been if we had given SH a free basket? You would have complained about it and said III was wrong, right? Of course not. You would have gushed about it and talked about it being all class. We all would have. And for those of you trying to come up with an explanation for us pressing (we were trying to foul, etc.), that is laughable. We were pressing (or guarding full court if those words matter), and that made the whole situation even that much weirder. I dont think this was part of any great plan on III / Georgetown's part to take advantage of anything - I think we were just not prepared to respond to what happened (a touch surprising in light of the conversation that Willard referred to between he and III before the game). The game plan was probably to press/pressure the first few posessions (it often is). No big deal. I worship III, but in the grand scheme of things, he made a tiny mistake on this. Nobody's perfect or always right. Except for me.
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 8, 2015 11:01:05 GMT -5
Didn't they hit a three after Jabril's dunk? So even if he did sort of pile on an extra two points, SH piled on an extra three. It's not like we succeeded in running up the score. I think it was just Jabril doing something to finish his Verizon career on a memorable note. Agreed. Also a good poster for his last game.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2015 11:02:23 GMT -5
Didn't they hit a three after Jabril's dunk? So even if he did sort of pile on an extra two points, SH piled on an extra three. It's not like we succeeded in running up the score. I think it was just Jabril doing something to finish his Verizon career on a memorable note. They threw up a 3/4 court shot at the buzzer. Jabril's dunk made it 9 against a team that had stopped playing defense and was already shaking hands. It's not the same thing. And 99/100 that shot doesnt go in and the team that was forced to throw it up to save face from the preceding play (the dunk) has to walk off the court with their tail between their legs. Jabril had already had a monster game to finish his Verizon career on a memorable note. He coulda just dribbled it out...
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Post by HometownHoya on Mar 8, 2015 11:04:54 GMT -5
What was his previous career high?
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