KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Jan 3, 2015 22:21:32 GMT -5
The perfect early January medicine this team needed--bounce back conference win and freshmen get serious minutes with serious impact that bodes well for the next two months. By the way, 2 games in, and the 2 remaining undefeated BE teams are Seton Hall and Depaul?
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 3, 2015 22:22:50 GMT -5
Not as many as there were in the first half, but still way too many. A lot had to do with Campbell being comfortable with the rotations. If he's going to do that and be a threat from 3, he should be starting. Gonna need a few of these before we get to that point. Still pretty undisciplined on defense, to be expected from a freshman. And we are kinda small at guard with Tre and DSR. But he can be a big contributor with his quickness and an outside shot. Looking for more big things from Mr. Campbell. He was mm-mm-good today.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Jan 3, 2015 22:29:26 GMT -5
Great day. Lunch at Jaleo was wonderful as usual. My expectation that the freshmen would step up was fulfilled. And the stink of the Xavier game was removed. Folks, Tre Campbell had his coming out today and it is huge for this team. Finally we have a true point guard who can play D and shoot. He allows DSR to play his true shooting guard position and makes the offense so much more dynamic. This team will go as far as Tre and the other frosh take them.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 3, 2015 22:40:31 GMT -5
The perfect early January medicine this team needed--bounce back conference win and freshmen get serious minutes with serious impact that bodes well for the next two months. By the way, 2 games in, and the 2 remaining undefeated BE teams are Seton Hall and Depaul? Same goes for the fans of the team. I can't drink nearly as much as I could in college and now I get these things called hangovers that last a minimum of 2 days. WTH? Winning is much better!
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jan 3, 2015 22:43:02 GMT -5
Not as many as there were in the first half, but still way too many. A lot had to do with Campbell being comfortable with the rotations. If he's going to do that and be a threat from 3, he should be starting. Gonna need a few of these before we get to that point. Still pretty undisciplined on defense, to be expected from a freshman. And we are kinda small at guard with Tre and DSR. But he can be a big contributor with his quickness and an outside shot. Looking for more big things from Mr. Campbell. He was mm-mm-good today. With regard to the size in the backcourt, I wonder if Tre initially got more minutes because he's a better matchup with Chatman who, unlike most of the other guys, looks smaller in person.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by dreamhoya on Jan 3, 2015 23:19:01 GMT -5
First post on this board... My sister and I are both big hoya fans since the 80's..been viewing hoyatalk for years...especially love following recruiting...glad to see this team bounce back from a tough Xavier game and inconsistant first half vs. Creighton
Good to see that Jt3 gave Tre a chance..nice to see a guard with a little bounce to his game both offensively and defensively. Even tough DSR numbers weren't great...having him off the ball is better overall for this team..
Freshman need to continue to get mintues..College hoops is all about guard play...hopefully Tre will continue to get big minutes..
In terms of backing off Jt3.. ..no doubt love JT3 as a person and a leader...but not a big fan of his offensive system...bottom line until he gets post season success again..people will continue to doubt his system.
bottom line good win for this team.
... HOYA SAXA HOYA!
Nice first post. Nothing wrong with having criticisms or negative opinions about III. The problem is those that feel the need to throw out the same criticism every single time. I find some of their analysis very insightful, but it's hard to read them anymore. It's like reading a legitimate GOP criticism...and inevitably getting Bengazi. It's just too much. I KID! JTIII's "system" - his system in pretty different than even 2 years ago. Remember mostly Freshman are playing. They need time.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Jan 3, 2015 23:19:11 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2015 23:19:18 GMT -5
Some Thoughts... - I'm not sure we played that much better today than against Xavier, aside from shooting much better. We shot 70% from 2 and 40+% from three ... and that, more than anything, opened up everything else. Some of that was probably Creighton not defending as well as Xavier, some of that was probably being at home, some of that was who was getting the minutes and much of was probably a hot shooting day or two. We got beat badly on the boards, which I didn't even notice because we were too busy not missing shots once the game got going.
- Similarly, I thought that we defended the three better against Xavier than against Creighton. I didn't think we were awful today or anything, but Xavier's 6-12 were mostly on covered looks and Creighton's 1-17 to finish the game was quite a bit lucky no matter how good the defense you are playing.
- It'd be really nice if our big men would only be whistled for fouls they actually commit. They foul enough on their own -- they don't need the "oh, he must have fouled him even though I didn't have any view of the play" fouls.
- The seniors didn't play poorly at all, but Tre brought to life why I've been a big proponent of more play by the freshmen -- when the offense stagnates, we need lineups out there where multiple players are threats. Tre isn't going to do that every game, but some other game it'll be White, or Copeland, or Bowen, or Trawick. I just think it's more likely to be a frosh on the offensive end.
- Once the team started clicking, everything stated dropping. Trawick making crazy layups, Campbell hitting from Anacostia, etc.
- It's worth noting that we used the three as an offensive weapon this game and with volume. We're going to need to keep doing it - it's just too important in college basketball.
- How did they shoot 29 FTs? I watched closely and I really didn't notice that many FTs. The number of fouls are still a massive issue.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 3, 2015 23:22:55 GMT -5
I agree with the issue Aleutian called out: DSR's lack of assertiveness, especially when the team is struggling, is a bit concerning. I kind of wished against Xavier, that DSR shot it about 50% of the time. Once we were up 15, I don't care ... but before that ... ugh.
He can get a decent 3pter any time. He needs to take more.
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BurgerMadness
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"Two (yes, two) quarter pounders..."
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Post by BurgerMadness on Jan 3, 2015 23:30:13 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those. I almost fell out of my seat when Smith hit a "jumper" from about five feet out in the paint in the second half. Don't think I've ever seen that from him before.
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drquigley
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by drquigley on Jan 3, 2015 23:34:56 GMT -5
To change the subject without changing the thread. Anyone else starting to think having Creighton in the BE is not such a good idea? How will this team compete when they run out of coaches sons? I noticed One of their best players is the assistant coaches son. I think the BE brings a hell of a lot more to them than they bring to the BE. I'm afraid that they could become perennial doormats.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jan 3, 2015 23:35:23 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those. Well.. conventional wisdom is he "can't shoot". All those missed chippies and layups would seem to reinforce that. But warming up for the second half v Indy at MSG last week, I saw him hit 6 in a row from the baseline, three point line. Swished every one. Dan said he saw 4, he must have missed the first couple. But he never shoots them in a game. How many remember Big Roy hitting his first Three as time ran out to win the game v UCONN?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 3, 2015 23:40:36 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those. They're not comfortable shooting 15-17ft jumpers.. Not to look past this season at all but this won't be an issue next season with Derrickson & Govan..
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FLHoya
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Proud Member of Generation Burton
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Post by FLHoya on Jan 4, 2015 0:01:47 GMT -5
To change the subject without changing the thread. Anyone else starting to think having Creighton in the BE is not such a good idea? How will this team compete when they run out of coaches sons? I noticed One of their best players is the assistant coaches son. I think the BE brings a hell of a lot more to them than they bring to the BE. I'm afraid that they could become perennial doormats. They'll be fine. They're probably in for the kind of down year you'd expect for a team that lost four starters, including a once-in-a-lifetime talent like McBuckets. We weren't so hot in a similar transition year in 2009. Importantly, Creighton's well coached and has an offensive system that generates good opportunities. To echo SFHoya's point: I'm not sure we played incredible defense or anything, Creighton just went ice cold from three in the second half and that's hard on them in that system. Even down double digits though, Chatman was able to penetrate the lane a ton, and they ran at least 4-5 textbook pick and rolls or drive and dish plays for easy looks in the second half. So it's not like this was some low-major school overwhelmed by superior talent. And FWIW, they had a good defensive approach in the first half: they clogged the lane to deny Smith, and if he or Hopkins ever got the ball at the elbow/three point line, their man immediately sagged into the paint to take away backcuts. It took an unexpected contribution from Tre Campbell to unlock it. My takeaway about Creighton today is they just don't have the horses right now, but I'm still not looking forward to playing in Omaha. BTW, the notion that it's a mistake to have such and such team in the BE (or that we should kick out a team) is a more annoying variant of "it's great for the conference if Team X is good!". Both speak to this weird insecurity about our conference--either we're desperate for teams to be good, or angry that a team isn't good enough. Just let somebody be in 9th place, ya know? And it's one thing to get on DePaul's basket case athletic department, but Creighton's been to more NCAA Tournaments than us in the past 15 years, for goodness sake.
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gujake
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Post by gujake on Jan 4, 2015 0:06:43 GMT -5
To change the subject without changing the thread. Anyone else starting to think having Creighton in the BE is not such a good idea? How will this team compete when they run out of coaches sons? I noticed One of their best players is the assistant coaches son. I think the BE brings a hell of a lot more to them than they bring to the BE. I'm afraid that they could become perennial doormats. I don't think there's any reason to worry about Creighton. They've been good for a long time now.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 4, 2015 0:36:30 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those. He may not show it in games, he used to take a lot more earlier in his career but Mikael can easily make that shot. He was almost automatic from 12-15 coming out of Dematha...
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 4, 2015 1:42:51 GMT -5
To change the subject without changing the thread. Anyone else starting to think having Creighton in the BE is not such a good idea? How will this team compete when they run out of coaches sons? I noticed One of their best players is the assistant coaches son. I think the BE brings a hell of a lot more to them than they bring to the BE. I'm afraid that they could become perennial doormats. That's a pretty common recruiting tactic. DePaul has that same situation right now with one of their star players. And Larry Brown lured Danny Manning to Kansas by hiring his dad as an assistant coach.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 4, 2015 4:47:08 GMT -5
One complaint and this goes back many years. Why don't our bigs when they get the ball at the top of the key ever look to shoot? Tonight Hopkins and Smith could easily have taken a wide open shot from the foul line but only looked to pass. There were at least 3 instances where they were alone there and had a simple free throw. Granted Hopkins can't shoot but geez at least work on that shot. I think Smith can easily make 50% of those. They're not comfortable shooting 15-17ft jumpers.. Make them comfortable. Coach 'em up a bit. They probably aren't too comfortable guarding smaller players on the perimeter when they have to switch on defense and yet III still expects them to do so. He should expect them to take and make their share of open jumpshots too. Having bigs stand around on the perimeter on so many possessions is arguably the most useless part of this offense. In the case of Hopkins, like Lubick last season, it is clear the only thing he is looking to do is deliver a pass to a backdoor-cutting teammate. But when the backdoor cut is unavailable (as it tends to be in most possessions) our bigs become pretty much bystanders on the offensive front. They don't shoot enough from out there and they don't look to take the defense by surprise with a dribble-drive to the hoop. I'd rather see Hopkins take a shot rather than force a pass that ultimately leads to a turnover and a waste of a possession.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Jan 4, 2015 4:53:16 GMT -5
To change the subject without changing the thread. Anyone else starting to think having Creighton in the BE is not such a good idea? How will this team compete when they run out of coaches sons? I noticed One of their best players is the assistant coaches son. I think the BE brings a hell of a lot more to them than they bring to the BE. I'm afraid that they could become perennial doormats. Their recruiting has picked up a bit and they should be very good again next season. Heck, despite their personnel loss they still have managed to be more competitive this season than I would have expected. The coach is pretty good too. He just needs more to work with on offense. What Creighton does give the Big East is a very good fanbase and an incredible home court atmosphere that sadly most BE teams don't have. Also the school was valuable to the BE because it is a midwest school that allows the BE to have a nice balance between east coast schools and midwest ones (good for travel).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2015 5:15:16 GMT -5
They're not comfortable shooting 15-17ft jumpers.. Make them comfortable. Coach 'em up a bit. They probably aren't too comfortable guarding smaller players on the perimeter when they have to switch on defense and yet III still expects them to do so. He should expect them to take and make their share of open jumpshots too. Having bigs stand around on the perimeter on so many possessions is arguably the most useless part of this offense. In the case of Hopkins, like Lubick last season, it is clear the only thing he is looking to do is deliver a pass to a backdoor-cutting teammate. But when the backdoor cut is unavailable (as it tends to be in most possessions) our bigs become pretty much bystanders on the offensive front. They don't shoot enough from out there and they don't look to take the defense by surprise with a dribble-drive to the hoop. I'd rather see Hopkins take a shot rather than force a pass that ultimately leads to a turnover and a waste of a possession. MCI: I think you're right to an extent-- Hopkins (and Lubick in the past) needed to be able to hit that elbow jumper to punish defenses for sagging off and clogging the lanes for cutters. Can't entirely blame JT3 here because he recruited both players thinking they could hit the mid-range jump shot. In high school, Lubick's range even extended out to 3 point land. For whatever reason, they lost confidence in their shot and became entirely one dimensional players. I guess we can tell Hopkins to practice that elbow shot 1000 times in practice but if he can't hit it in the game he can't hit in the game. I mean the dude can barely make a freethrow from one foot over. The good news is that I don't see the problem continuing with White, Copeland or Derrickson in the forward positions so I am looking forward to EtomicB's other point about next year coming to fruition. Those guys will eat up defenses that sag. And as has been said, although Hopkins and Lubick seemed like the kind of personnel that would succeed in this system they weren't perfect fits. Showing hints of a shooting ability isn't enough of a guarantee. I think JT3 needes to be very careful recruiting that position since it's so key to the offense. Guys brought in to play the 3/4 need to already have mature mid-range and perimeter games. I do believe the current crop of freshman and recruits are much more tailored to the system.....
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