jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 28, 2014 16:25:47 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk. I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. Perhaps, Rock....but when your 6'9" big man shoots 37% from the field on the season when 55-60% would be the expectation, the missed dunk is not an unreasonable narrative.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 28, 2014 16:28:50 GMT -5
Haha...Jabril's twitter handle...Brill Clinton!
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 28, 2014 16:34:39 GMT -5
Seeing the game live just highlighted how terrible the freshman are defensively at this point. They are thinking every time the ball moves and it is making them at least a step or two behind. They are also lost on rotations and constantly confused on switching schemes. That is why our zone was so effective in the second half, we were only playing one freshman and he is the furthest along defensively. White went in and they scored a 3 right away. The good news is that it is expected that it will take the freshman a while to acclimate defensively and we should get much better defensively once they do. The bad news is that until the do they are going to keep negating most of their offensive contributions with terrible defense.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 28, 2014 16:46:05 GMT -5
hey rock, i'm not hating, i used to be a big fan of his game; i'm still rooting for him but in my opinion he looks unnatural doing center type moves. smh Maybe there's just a disconnect between expectations and realistic expectations then. On both field goals in the first half both moves looked like makes from the second he decided to initiate them. There isn't any more natural those two moves could've looked, tbh. If you disagree then maybe it's because of where your expectations are at. Both field goals were textbook (the running hook better than textbook because it's not an easy shot, similar to Markel's runner) and looked as if they were executed just as he had practiced them time and time again. Just giving him credit where it's due, you make it seem like they were fluke finishes and something that he was unconscious of even doing. His finishing problem isn't that he doesn't have the repertoire of moves, rather it's that he telegraphs his movements and lacks and adequate counter-moves to prevent the defense from capitalizing on the fact that they know exactly what is coming. Either way you're entitled to your opinion. And the phrasing of your post insinuates that, to you, he hasn't played any games above stellar. And you even refused to call this game stellar, even though he was largely the only reason we matched their intensity in the first few minutes. If that's not hate then we just have different definitions of stellar, but I like to use the Meriam-Webster version so who knows. Well IN MY OPINION he has played some good games but "stellar" i just don't agree with that. Nothing against you or Hopkins.
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aristides
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Post by aristides on Dec 28, 2014 16:51:36 GMT -5
Don't have much to add except that I wore a hole in my carpet pacing back and forth like Crean during this game. What a thriller. I love this team. They are so much fun to watch.
DSR with 42 minutes played with 0 turnovers. Not bad for a converted shooting guard.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 28, 2014 16:51:56 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk. I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. Hopkins played well yesterday and when he plays within himself which he has as of late he's a big asset to the team.. I agree with you that Purplefilms use of the word "unnatural" when describing Hopkins making shots is odd or over the top but you have to admit Hopkins hasn't been an efficient offensive player over his career at G'town. He's missed a lot of chip shots where he hasn't been fouled.. I fully admit I cringe when he goes to make a move with the ball, this is not a perception I've gotten from reading the board.. It has come from watching him for 3+ years
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 28, 2014 16:54:41 GMT -5
Seeing the game live just highlighted how terrible the freshman are defensively at this point. They are thinking every time the ball moves and it is making them at least a step or two behind. They are also lost on rotations and constantly confused on switching schemes. That is why our zone was so effective in the second half, we were only playing one freshman and he is the furthest along defensively. White went in and they scored a 3 right away. The good news is that it is expected that it will take the freshman a while to acclimate defensively and we should get much better defensively once they do. The bad news is that until the do they are going to keep negating most of their offensive contributions with terrible defense. Which play are you referring to Sleepy?
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
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Post by hoyainspirit on Dec 28, 2014 16:59:25 GMT -5
Rock, you can pretend people are hatin' on Hop all you want, but the bottom line is that he is awful as a finisher and scorer. To see him do it successfully a couple times in a game is, as purp said, unnatural, or if not unnatural, definitely unusual. No one is more overjoyed than I am to see Hop have a game where he hits a few shots. Love the other things he brings to the game, especially when he is not turning it over. But Hop's game yesterday was far better than his norm in terms of finishing. Let's hope he continues to improve as the season progresses.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Dec 28, 2014 17:02:54 GMT -5
Seeing the game live just highlighted how terrible the freshman are defensively at this point. They are thinking every time the ball moves and it is making them at least a step or two behind. They are also lost on rotations and constantly confused on switching schemes. That is why our zone was so effective in the second half, we were only playing one freshman and he is the furthest along defensively. White went in and they scored a 3 right away. The good news is that it is expected that it will take the freshman a while to acclimate defensively and we should get much better defensively once they do. The bad news is that until the do they are going to keep negating most of their offensive contributions with terrible defense. Which play are you referring to Sleepy? I don't remember at what point in the second half it was but White was on the bottom of the 2-3, the IU guard penetrated towards his side but was still covered by whichever Georgetown guard was at the top, White needlessly over-committed to help, the IU guard passed it out for a wide open 3 which I believe was hit, White came out the next time the stopped ball. I believe he went back in a few minutes later but they all 4 of them have huge lapses like this defensively every game. It's not unexpected issue and is typical for almost all of our freshman in the first half of the season, it is just tricky since we are playing more freshman this year than previously which probably isn't helping their learning curve. I think they will get it eventually, but the defensive instincts aren't there yet.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 17:06:52 GMT -5
I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you saren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. Perhaps, Rock....but when your 6'9" big man shoots 37% from the field on the season when 55-60% would be the expectation, the missed dunk is not an unreasonable narrative. You realize that's just irrational thinking right?
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 17:09:01 GMT -5
I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. Perhaps, Rock....but when your 6'9" big man shoots 37% from the field on the season when 55-60% would be the expectation, the missed dunk is not an unreasonable narrative. And not to mention that the expectation shouldn't be 55-60%....that's where you're going wrong. That's not a reasonable expectation for any starting college PF (it's a very high percentage) much less one who telegraphs his moves as frequently as Mikael.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 17:13:27 GMT -5
Maybe there's just a disconnect between expectations and realistic expectations then. On both field goals in the first half both moves looked like makes from the second he decided to initiate them. There isn't any more natural those two moves could've looked, tbh. If you disagree then maybe it's because of where your expectations are at. Both field goals were textbook (the running hook better than textbook because it's not an easy shot, similar to Markel's runner) and looked as if they were executed just as he had practiced them time and time again. Just giving him credit where it's due, you make it seem like they were fluke finishes and something that he was unconscious of even doing. His finishing problem isn't that he doesn't have the repertoire of moves, rather it's that he telegraphs his movements and lacks and adequate counter-moves to prevent the defense from capitalizing on the fact that they know exactly what is coming. Either way you're entitled to your opinion. And the phrasing of your post insinuates that, to you, he hasn't played any games above stellar. And you even refused to call this game stellar, even though he was largely the only reason we matched their intensity in the first few minutes. If that's not hate then we just have different definitions of stellar, but I like to use the Meriam-Webster version so who knows. Well IN MY OPINION he has played some good games but "stellar" i just don't agree with that. Nothing against you or Hopkins. I respect that opinion, but I'd argue that, objectively, Hop has been stellar in more games than one.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 17:32:36 GMT -5
Rock, you can pretend people are hatin' on Hop all you want, but the bottom line is that he is awful as a finisher and scorer. To see him do it successfully a couple times in a game is, as purp said, unnatural, or if not unnatural, definitely unusual. No one is more overjoyed than I am to see Hop have a game where he hits a few shots. Love the other things he brings to the game, especially when he is not turning it over. But Hop's game yesterday was far better than his norm in terms of finishing. Let's hope he continues to improve as the season progresses. I'm not pretending or trying to interpret any narrative, I'm simply reacting to what's being written. No one is saying he's been a good finisher, because that would be asinine. But you then have to go further and understand WHY he's not a good finisher, which many on here fail to do. He's not a bad finisher because he lacks an offensive repertoire, it's because he is terrible at feeling a defender's presence and allows them to easily predict where/when he will put up a shot, and at this level defenders are generally good enough to capitalize regularly on that. That being said, objectively, those moves didn't look unnatural (the very notion that I was contesting). He made them in rhythm, they were decisive, and they countered the defense's focus. Like I said in another post, they were pretty much textbook. You're right, unusual would've been a better word to use, but still not to describe what he actually executed. You would be able to express that it was unusual that he scored in the manner hat he did, but again, unnatural doesn't mean the same thing as unusual. At the end of the day the poster I was saying that Hop, played well, not stellar, and that the shots that he even made seemed unnatural. To me, it just seems an unfair assessment because the ONLY blunder he had was attempting an up and under in too much traffic while relying too heavily on drawing contact, and otherwise he played a good game where both of his shots looked calmed, confident, and as if he's been working on them. Again, they were textbook and reminiscent of the times when Hop actually showed glimpses of being able to contribute offensively, the type of moves that make you wonder "why can't he get that whenever he wants?". So yes, I guess you might say describing those moves as unnatural might be seen as hate by me. It's like why pick the time he's finally starting to get it right to criticize him, ya know? Doesn't make much sense to me
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MacHoya
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Post by MacHoya on Dec 28, 2014 17:59:38 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more (Responding to post comparing MSG to Verizon)
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 28, 2014 18:05:47 GMT -5
Rock, as a team we shoot 48.1%.
Hop shoots 39.1% while shooting almost all shots at the rim on 46 attempts. Josh shoots 63.6% on 88 attempts...while being fouled while shooting as or more often than Hop.
I like Hop and wish him the best, but the simple fact is that he is not presently an effective shooter/scorer.
The good news is that Hop is playing within himself this year. One exception was the up and under 1st shot of the game. That is not a shot I want to see him take.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Dec 28, 2014 18:13:29 GMT -5
Re watching - not enough has been said about White's full court outlet to LJ for the finger roll! Damn!
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 28, 2014 18:37:27 GMT -5
Maybe there's just a disconnect between expectations and realistic expectations then. On both field goals in the first half both moves looked like makes from the second he decided to initiate them. There isn't any more natural those two moves could've looked, tbh. If you disagree then maybe it's because of where your expectations are at. Both field goals were textbook (the running hook better than textbook because it's not an easy shot, similar to Markel's runner) and looked as if they were executed just as he had practiced them time and time again. Just giving him credit where it's due, you make it seem like they were fluke finishes and something that he was unconscious of even doing. His finishing problem isn't that he doesn't have the repertoire of moves, rather it's that he telegraphs his movements and lacks and adequate counter-moves to prevent the defense from capitalizing on the fact that they know exactly what is coming. Either way you're entitled to your opinion. And the phrasing of your post insinuates that, to you, he hasn't played any games above stellar. And you even refused to call this game stellar, even though he was largely the only reason we matched their intensity in the first few minutes. If that's not hate then we just have different definitions of stellar, but I like to use the Meriam-Webster version so who knows. Well IN MY OPINION he has played some good games but "stellar" i just don't agree with that. Nothing against you or Hopkins. Almost stellar!?
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 18:37:42 GMT -5
Rock, as a team we shoot 48.1%. Hop shoots 39.1% while shooting almost all shots at the rim on 46 attempts. Josh shoots 63.6% on 88 attempts...while being fouled while shooting as or more often than Hop. I like Hop and wish him the best, but the simple fact is that he is not presently an effective shooter/scorer. The good news is that Hop is playing within himself this year. One exception was the up and under 1st shot of the game. That is not a shot I want to see him take. You say that to say what? Im confused, nobody has tried to argue that he's an effective scorer, who's point are you trying to disprove? If you're just trying to tell me that we shoot 48.1% as a team, well then point well taken.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 28, 2014 18:46:05 GMT -5
There are lots of times where he lets the play go on and doesn't call a TO. I doubt we would've gotten a better shot if there was no TO. Yeah not saying in all cases its a bad move to call time out, but in that instance I think it was. DSR was by his man in the lane for his signature pull up jumper which is automatic It's a good question from a strategy POV--do you just let the play run with the ball in DSR's hands. FWIW though, I just re-watched the play on ESPN3, since I didn't have the greatest recollection seeing it live. I paused it at the moment the official blows the whistle/raises his hand, and JTIII actually called for timeout at least twice as the official jogged past, so it's really a tick or two after he intends to call it. DSR is 3-4 feet beyond the NBA three point line, just about to go into a move. Yogi Farrell has his left foot on the NBA three line, and he's leaning back, but he's definitely well in front of DSR. DSR gets by Farrell, well after the whistle, b/c Yogi stopped. Nobody else is open...Indiana was definitely "back on defense". Trawick and Peak are well beyond the three point line and have defenders in easy closeout range. Hopkins is being fronted in the paint. Bowen is in the far corner but his defender is staring at him, and with the length of the pass required, at best he's gonna recover and Bowen's gonna be closely guarded in the corner. Looks like JTIII intended to call the TO once we established possession in the front court unless something weird happened.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 28, 2014 18:59:04 GMT -5
[li]Once again, this game demonstrated how different our team is with Smith on the floor. He may not be the best player on the team; he still misses too many bunnies and fumbles the ball too much; he could still lose some weight. But man, the ENTIRE defense changes when he's in and completely opens everything up. How crazy was DSR's three pointer on the second possession of overtime? He got the ball outside the line on the same side as Smith in the post. He brought the ball over his head--didn't even sell a hard fake or anything--and Yogi Farrell jumped backwards 3-4 feet because Indiana was so freaked out about Smith in the post. And DSR just brought the ball down and rose up for an uncontested three. Go watch the thing, it's insane.
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