DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 28, 2014 9:24:56 GMT -5
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 28, 2014 10:14:02 GMT -5
A couple of more positive stats would be only 11 turnovers for the HOYAS and 13 steals. On the negative side the much smaller Hoosiers out rebounded the Hoyas by 5 and as has been noted the Hoyas continue to sink to new depths in FT shooting. Most encouraging is that the Hoyas played a strong second half and overtime despite generally little contribution from the heralded freshmen class. Another comment on the final minutes and criticism of the defense played by Bowen on the last 3 made to send it to overtime. A coaching buddy of mine was at the game and said that the Hoya bench was yelling to the perimeter players throughout the last two minutes not to foul the 3 point shooters. I think that the way the officials called the game yesterday it made guard play difficult. Bowen was called for a foul on a rebound when the Indiana player literally fell on him. Also, in the overtime a couple of the so-called bump fouls had the bench going nuts as DSR and Peak sent Hoosiers to the line with the clock stopped. Even at the high school level we are seeing this new emphasis on calling the bump or hand check in an effort to promote the offense. What it has done though is create a parade to the foul line and often taken teams' best or most athletic players out of the game. The calls against Smith have garnered attention but just as ridiculous is the second consecutive year of calling bumps and checks on guards even when there is little or no impact from the play.
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Talos
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Post by Talos on Dec 28, 2014 10:17:59 GMT -5
A couple random thoughts:
- When I first tuned in and saw Calhoun was announcing the game, I groaned, muttered a few expletives, and considered muting the sound. However, I'm glad I didn't. I thought he actually had a number of good insights, and showed a lot of love for the team, the program, and JTIII. And as others have mentioned, I'm so glad he pointed out we can and do push the ball on offense. It's not only good to debunk that myth, I think it's really good for recruiting. Let's face it, at this point a lot more recruits are tuning in to ESPN than Fox to watch basketball. We have very few opportunities on ESPN now, so it was great to hear those comments during this game.
- I think Jay Bilas still has had some of the best analysis of this team. During Atlantis, he mentioned we were pretty good now, but will be exceptionally good come March. We've shown a lot of flashes so far, but have lacked consistency. However, by March, the freshmen will be better acclimated to our offensive and defensive philosophies, and will be meshing well with the upperclassmen.
- Bilas also repeatedly pointed out how officials just don't know how to officiate Josh Smith. After the first 11 games, that's painfully obvious to all of us. And unfortunately, the way the refs officiate Smith will perhaps dictate the course of our season. When he's in the game, it's not just the points he scores but the double/triple teams which lead to open looks for others. He's so big, the refs are constantly focused on him. It reminds me of Hibbert; both of them were constantly the focus of overzealous officials.
- I should have asked for an AED for Christmas....I don't think I'm going to make it through the season with these types of games...
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 28, 2014 10:19:48 GMT -5
The crowd sounded good but the attendance figure (8,651) reads as disappointing, given the location and the number of Indiana fans in attendance. There were e-mails going out on Friday offering 100-level seats, so it was apparent that tickets were not moving.
Georgetown has committed to multiple non-conference games in the NYC area for the next few years in addition to St. John's, Seton Hall, and the BE Tournament, which could be as many as six games a season. Is the NYC fan base overextended to show up for these games, or has the overall Georgetown fan base simply plateaued? (It's not like Georgetown fans were sitting at the Pinstripe Bowl instead.)
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Dec 28, 2014 10:23:14 GMT -5
IU got two free throws from their bench - that is it on the day from their bench.
Thankfully we didn't need those two free throws DSR missed at the end.
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vv83
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Post by vv83 on Dec 28, 2014 10:33:25 GMT -5
The crowd sounded good but the attendance figure (8,651) reads as disappointing, given the location and the number of Indiana fans in attendance. There were e-mails going out on Friday offering 100-level seats, so it was apparent that tickets were not moving. Georgetown has committed to multiple non-conference games in the NYC area for the next few years in addition to St. John's, Seton Hall, and the BE Tournament, which could be as many as six games a season. Is the NYC fan base overextended to show up for these games, or has the overall Georgetown fan base simply plateaued? (It's not like Georgetown fans were sitting at the Pinstripe Bowl instead.) I'm not sure if this has been noted elsewhere - but the 200-400 sections of MSG were not sold - completely empty. You may not have been able to see this on TV. it actually created a pretty good environment, since all the fans were packed into the 100s right around the court. So it was a loud and fairly intense game experience. But really disappointing that a Georgetown-Indiana game could sell so few tickets that they shut down half the seating in the Garden.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Dec 28, 2014 10:39:58 GMT -5
The crowd sounded good but the attendance figure (8,651) reads as disappointing, given the location and the number of Indiana fans in attendance. There were e-mails going out on Friday offering 100-level seats, so it was apparent that tickets were not moving. Georgetown has committed to multiple non-conference games in the NYC area for the next few years in addition to St. John's, Seton Hall, and the BE Tournament, which could be as many as six games a season. Is the NYC fan base overextended to show up for these games, or has the overall Georgetown fan base simply plateaued? (It's not like Georgetown fans were sitting at the Pinstripe Bowl instead.) The lower bowl was mostly filled, but the upper levels were completely empty. Right after Christmas for two out of town teams might be a tough sell. The crowd that was there was very loud though. From Crean's comments after the game, it sounded like MSG asked Indiana to play in this game first, and then Georgetown was selected from some group of teams as the opponent. I assume ESPN is involved in setting these games up too. Don't know the business side of all this, but I'd guess all parties involved made money on this and were satisfied.
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nathanhm
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Post by nathanhm on Dec 28, 2014 10:48:12 GMT -5
Let's not forget that the game was 2 days after Christmas, I didn't expect a good turnout based on date alone.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 28, 2014 10:50:27 GMT -5
Just got home from family holiday trip. Watched DVR replay. First let me apologize for badmouthing Josh earlier this year. He is getting better every game. Today, against smaller big men, he was a monster. Still loses the ball too easily down low but like I said is improving. Gotta play that 2-3 zone to protect Josh. We don't have good enough one on one defenders when we play man and it puts huge pressure on Josh and Hop when guys penetrate. With Traws, Bowen, and Peak pressuring the ball and Josh literally clogging middle that 2-3 will be a killer later this year. One question, why isn't Indiana ranked? This is one helluva team. Granted they lack abig man but they have at least 2 NBA first rounders. My thoughts exactly. Indiana is clearly one of the best teams in the country. However, because they are not ranked, our accomplishment is diminished a little bit.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Dec 28, 2014 10:53:56 GMT -5
Ok. I haven't seen much talk about this. We played extended time without Hop or Smith on the floor Apparently, the 3rd center conversation is irrelevant of Hayes is that far away. Also, the minute distribution was quite unusual. 8 saw meaningful minutes. Ike had 10, Hop had 17, White 20, and Smith 26. Peak, Trawick, DSR, and Bowen all played 34+ I imagine most of these result from IU's perimeter orientation....but still quite unusual. I think it was because of their lineup. At one point Indiana had 5 legitimate shooters on the floor together so I think III was trying to matchup so we could contest their outside shots. I guess Hop could have played with Smith when we went zone but maybe III wanted better scoring options with the pace of the game. Either way both 5's played great; we can be so good when Hop and Bril play under control. Now lets work on FTs Don't forget both Hops and Josh are prone to picking up fouls. The key was having them available come crunch time.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 11:24:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the report from the MSG. I envy you. You also mentioned something I also saw--albeit from a less advantageous position--Hopkins did play a great game. He oftentimes get attacked on the board for the slightest thing. However his stellar performance was overlooked today. Not so sure about "stellar" but its as good as i've seen him play. still looked unnatural for his shots to go in...he had a good, near-great game. sure hope he has that Dante Cunningham arc during the tourney.... Unnatural? He looked like he's practiced those shots thousands and thousands of times in his lifetime....smh the hate.
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chep3
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Post by chep3 on Dec 28, 2014 11:30:25 GMT -5
Let's not forget that the game was 2 days after Christmas, I didn't expect a good turnout based on date alone. I know this is anecdotal, but I and 9 other people I know missed this game because everyone was out of town. If this game was next weekend, we'd have had a much better turnout.
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MacHoya
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Post by MacHoya on Dec 28, 2014 11:35:24 GMT -5
A lot has been said about the attendance. I was at the game and was actually quite impressed with the number of fans given it was two days after Christmas. Also red shows up better than grey giving the impression there were more Indiana fans. However if you concentrated on seat count, I would say it was pretty close. In fact we may have had a slight edge. Regardless, we were much louder. Really fun game to be at, Indiana fans were very classy.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 28, 2014 11:47:18 GMT -5
I was surprised to read that there were only 8k fans there. Certainly seemed like there was more. Looks like they closed off the upper deck though which was great. Verizon should take notes
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 28, 2014 12:00:30 GMT -5
Ok. I haven't seen much talk about this. We played extended time without Hop or Smith on the floor Apparently, the 3rd center conversation is irrelevant of Hayes is that far away. Also, the minute distribution was quite unusual. 8 saw meaningful minutes. Ike had 10, Hop had 17, White 20, and Smith 26. Peak, Trawick, DSR, and Bowen all played 34+ I imagine most of these result from IU's perimeter orientation....but still quite unusual. I think it was because of their lineup. At one point Indiana had 5 legitimate shooters on the floor together so I think III was trying to matchup so we could contest their outside shots. I guess Hop could have played with Smith when we went zone but maybe III wanted better scoring options with the pace of the game. Either way both 5's played great; we can be so good when Hop and Bril play under control. Now lets work on FTs Something like this. At the time when Josh picked up his third foul, Mikael had just gone to the bench with his second. In fact, Josh replaced Mikael in the lineup after Mikael's second, and proceeded to pick up fouls 2 and 3 on the next defensive and offensive possession. So a little foul trouble there. We could get by w/ White and Copeland though b/c, like you said, Indiana's lineup/offensive game plan made it easier. You could probably count on one hand the number of times they tried to post anybody up on offense, so going without a true center...especially a third string 7 footer who ain't exactly mobile...wasn't a big deal.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Dec 28, 2014 12:03:03 GMT -5
A couple random thoughts: - When I first tuned in and saw Calhoun was announcing the game, I groaned, muttered a few expletives, and considered muting the sound. However, I'm glad I didn't. I thought he actually had a number of good insights, and showed a lot of love for the team, the program, and JTIII. And as others have mentioned, I'm so glad he pointed out we can and do push the ball on offense. It's not only good to debunk that myth, I think it's really good for recruiting. Let's face it, at this point a lot more recruits are tuning in to ESPN than Fox to watch basketball. We have very few opportunities on ESPN now, so it was great to hear those comments during this game. - I think Jay Bilas still has had some of the best analysis of this team. During Atlantis, he mentioned we were pretty good now, but will be exceptionally good come March. We've shown a lot of flashes so far, but have lacked consistency. However, by March, the freshmen will be better acclimated to our offensive and defensive philosophies, and will be meshing well with the upperclassmen. - Bilas also repeatedly pointed out how officials just don't know how to officiate Josh Smith. After the first 11 games, that's painfully obvious to all of us. And unfortunately, the way the refs officiate Smith will perhaps dictate the course of our season. When he's in the game, it's not just the points he scores but the double/triple teams which lead to open looks for others. He's so big, the refs are constantly focused on him. It reminds me of Hibbert; both of them were constantly the focus of overzealous officials. - I should have asked for an AED for Christmas....I don't think I'm going to make it through the season with these types of games... I agree about Calhoun. He was focusing on the game / made some interesting points. Seth Greenberg was awful though--seemed like everytime he opened his mouth he was sucking up to Calhoun / trying to get Calhoun to talk about himself/UConn.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 28, 2014 12:04:51 GMT -5
Regarding several issues from an on site perspective:
1. The attendance was likely pretty close to the announced attendance. There indeed was nobody in the upper level. As such, it felt pretty packed and was a great atmosphere in the second half and OT. It visually looked like there was much more red than not in the stands, but the crowd felt overall pro-Hoya especially during the comeback. I am uncertain how heavily the game was marketed outside of that done by the two schools. It's a tough date - in the middle of vacation season and it was a late-announced game so that may have affected things as well. I certainly would not use it as a harbinger of doom for college basketball games at MSG.
2. The last play in regulation happened right in front of us (we were low behind the Hoya bench). We all thought it was a good play, with options for Peak to dump it down low, drive to the hoop, or pass to DSR on top. From our angle, Indiana was denying the ball to DSR and the pass out would have had to be perfect. The lane to the rim opened wide (in part because of Smith screening his man) and Peak made the right decision to drive to the rim. In retrospect, he should have tried to dunk it athough it likely still might have been blocked - but it would have forced the refs to make a call. Aside from not scoring, that play was far from the worst OOB play after a timeout the Hoyas have run. If you want to quibble about the wrong guy taking a shot, how about Aaron Bowen launching an airball three the play after he had hit one from the right corner... with DSR wide open to his right in shooting position waiting for the pass.
3. Those "hand checks" called on Hoya guards late in the game were mostly fend-off elbows from the IU guards planted right into Hoya guard guts. Total BS calls - and they got away with it all game.
4. Hopkins can shoot. He just has trouble in games where he speeds himself up needlessly or allows himself to get bodied off balance as he is shooting. As I mentioned upthread, he sank 4 corner threes in a row in pre-second half warmups and looked good doing so. (No, I don't want him taking that shot in the game).
5. Hoyas had a number of deflections leading to steals especially from the zone in the second half. As others have mentioned, this IU team has what has recently been kryptonite to the Hoyas: quick guards who can shoot from deep and an athletic front line. A lot, but not all, of the over-rotations in the first half disappeared in the zone in the second half. Bowen and Peak are particularly prone to over-helping and leaving guys wide open.
6. People who say DSR cannot defend should re-watch his steal at the top of the key and layup to tie it with 9:36 in regulation. Yes, he gets beat off the dribble a lot by really quick guards, but his defensive instincts are way underrated.
7. I, among others, felt like a technical foul late in the first half when several blatantly wrong foul calls were made would have been the right move. Not surprisingly, it did not come. However, III worked the officials HARD all game - a couple of times through almost an entire timeout. I think it paid off late in the game when grabbing Hoya cutters and some other defensive fouls were finally called. Of course, you could argue that Aaron Bowen being called for a foul when the IU guy jumped and landed on top of him or when Josh got a foul called because he stood in defensive position and the IU guy ran by him and flopped were evidence to the contrary.
8. Again, full credit to III for holding Josh out at the beginning of the second and to Josh for playing within the scope of the way the refs were calling the game when he came in.
9. Copeland still looks a bit lost on both offense and defense, but he had a GREAT block in the second half which stopped a potential momentum changing IU hoop. It will come for him but it is clearly taking a bit longer than it is for Paul White.
10. Great to see Nate Lubick and John Caprio on the baseline - III made a point of going over to see both of them after the game.
11. I have not re-watched the game yet, but no surprise to me that Fagan is very good as a college hoops color guy. Say what you will about him: the guy knows his stuff.
12. All in all, aside from the queasy first half, a thoroughly enjoyable experience. Happy to see the game with Tarky and to run into another classmate and his Hoya sophomore daughter after the game in the concourse. As he said, "there isn't anything better than college basketball in the Garden."
Team still is not there yet - many issues to fix - but things are beginning to come together. Great to see Trawick and Bowen playing aggressively and for the most part within themselves. Best of all, the real DSR re-appeared at just the right time.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 28, 2014 12:09:13 GMT -5
You could probably count on one hand the number of times they tried to post anybody up on offense The one time they "posted up" in the second half, it was Yogi Ferrell at the foul line and the entry pass sailed a foot over his reach right into Josh Smith's hands, starting a Hoya fast break and leading to the thoroughly entertaining sight of Crean windmilling his fist into the press table.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 28, 2014 12:14:04 GMT -5
Not by me - I thought Hop had a great game - yes, he had the obligatory miss in close but defensively he was really a key. What WAS overlooked completely was Hop draining 4 consecutive corner 3s in the halftime warmup. When I saw that I had hope for good things to come in the second half. Shouldn't Hop be practicing dunks instead of 3's?? He hit 2 of those too, Wisenheimer. Seriously though, whatever gets the guys loose works. When he hit the first three, Smith started feeding him and they were both laughing.
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 28, 2014 12:15:15 GMT -5
The crowd sounded good but the attendance figure (8,651) reads as disappointing, given the location and the number of Indiana fans in attendance. There were e-mails going out on Friday offering 100-level seats, so it was apparent that tickets were not moving. Georgetown has committed to multiple non-conference games in the NYC area for the next few years in addition to St. John's, Seton Hall, and the BE Tournament, which could be as many as six games a season. Is the NYC fan base overextended to show up for these games, or has the overall Georgetown fan base simply plateaued? (It's not like Georgetown fans were sitting at the Pinstripe Bowl instead.) Remember that post a few pages ago where someone expressed annoyance about how too many posts have an obvious agenda? I don't normally make this a thing, but since it came up: I would take the 4,000 or however many Georgetown fans at MSG yesterday every day of the week over the 9,000-10,000 we get at Verizon Center on a game to game basis. I've been to the last four neutral site non-conf games at MSG (so Butler, Texas, MSU, and Indiana)--I don't think it's fair to compare BET games b/c that's a different format--and in every case with the possible exception of Texas, if you found an apples to apples comparison to a Verizon Center opponent from the same season, the NYC crowd was better. The Kansas game featured a double digit comeback, a decent sized scoring run, a good back and forth in the final minutes...it wasn't THAT different from yesterday, and from start to finish (so, I'm not saying this because I had fun at an exciting game that we won) the GU atmosphere (so, I'm not handing out bonus points b/c Hoosiers are loud too) was better. I'm not trying to make it personal or assign blame--I'm one of those Verizon fans and I'm a curmudgeonly grump during games, so I ain't helping things. There are perfectly reasonable explanations for why this is the case. Nor am I saying the Verizon Center crowds are bad--we do fine given the situation, and the Kansas game had a good atmosphere. But I do want to hammer home--in a deliberately provocative manner, I guess--that it was a darn good crowd yesterday.
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