FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Dec 28, 2014 12:36:27 GMT -5
8. Again, full credit to III for holding Josh out at the beginning of the second and to Josh for playing within the scope of the way the refs were calling the game when he came in. I'm surprised we're not playing this up more. Playing a ton of zone in the second half helped, but it wasn't like Josh didn't need to be active. Indiana still got into the lane on high screens, they still moved the ball enough to force some odd rotations. He did really well to contribute on defense without picking up the fourth foul. To the point that when he did commit his fourth in OT, it felt kind of random--like why all of sudden did you do a really obvious one? It still bears watching. I thought his second foul was an awful call--if you want to call it "Josh being big" that's fine. He gets one or two of those a game, and it's crap and unfair and all the Esherickian things. But he can't be getting the third foul right afterwards, and on an offensive foul he's been called for a ton this year for getting up in a guy's throat trying to establish position. It wasn't the worst example, but he's gotta know better by now. His first foul was him taking the punishment for the team completely botching a defensive rotation--he had to fly out to contest a three pointer. So yeah, three fouls out of four were some degree of "ugh, that really shouldn't be happening". And he played well! So yeah, small margin for error.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Dec 28, 2014 12:38:40 GMT -5
Othella spent a LOT of time with Josh 1-on-1 during timeouts. A lot. Have to think it was stressing all of that. And you're right - his 1st and 4th fouls were of the "really, you just did that?" variety.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 28, 2014 12:43:05 GMT -5
7. I, among others, felt like a technical foul late in the first half when several blatantly wrong foul calls were made would have been the right move. Not surprisingly, it did not come. However, III worked the officials HARD all game - a couple of times through almost an entire timeout. I think it paid off late in the game when grabbing Hoya cutters and some other defensive fouls were finally called. Of course, you could argue that Aaron Bowen being called for a foul when the IU guy jumped and landed on top of him or when Josh got a foul called because he stood in defensive position and the IU guy ran by him and flopped were evidence to the contrary. I'm pretty surprised JT3 didn't get at least a couple of technicals last night. After a few of those technical calls ESPN showed JT3 clearly cursing quite a bit. My brother (who is a season ticket holder in the 100s) was surprised that JT3 even had that in him.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 28, 2014 12:52:14 GMT -5
General Thoughts: - I enjoyed at halftime how the the Hall of Fame Coach kept bringing the conversation back to the Hoyas and how we'd be leading if we could make a lay-up while the annoying Syracuse-bred announcer and the not-Hall of Fame Coach kept talking about how pretty Indiana was. Who do you listen to? The guy with three national titles or Seth Greenberg?
- Once again, this game demonstrated how different our team is with Smith on the floor. He may not be the best player on the team; he still misses too many bunnies and fumbles the ball too much; he could still lose some weight. But man, the ENTIRE defense changes when he's in and completely opens everything up. Just incredible the difference. Two things I'd like him to do: don't foul; and pass the ball back out when double or triple teamed! We know he can do the former -- he spent the whole second half doing it great -- including coming out on a 3pt shooter in a key position and not fouling! And we know we can do the latter because it did it well until the very end when he got a little black hole.
- There needs to be more Bowen love. He may still press his luck a bit and he's not a primary scorer in the sense of "give him the ball and create", but he's learned to shoot from the outside, he's got a great first step/sense of when his opponent is vulnerable and he can FINISH at the rim. When no one else on the team can, that's hugely valuable, especially when he grabs a steal or three a game to start his own fast break. DSR had the highest O efficiency in the game, but Bowen's 9-11 is fantastic and reminiscient in some ways of how the 2007 team played -- that team converted a ton of good shots at the rim. Bowen's our dude that does that, and he does it really well. Offensively, he's leaps and bounds above Ewing, Jr. now. Given his height, I doubt he's going to b quite the defender, but he's still been crazy good this year. I love a player like Bowen -- he generates points without dominating the ball.
- I don't get the amount of upset over the final shot. It was a good play and we got a shot at the rim. When we force it to Smith or DSR and they are defended well, everyone complains it is too obvious. Peak got a good shot -- maybe he didn't make it, but I can't complain.
- If the FT shooting doesn't kill the Hoyas, at some level it is going to kill me. Even for our team we left 6 or so points on the table -- thankfully, DSR was unconscious from 3. We complain about Indiana hitting 41% over 30 attempts, but we shot 7-12. That's not normal, either.
- Once again, this team wins a game partially because we took more shots. This time, we won the turnover battle pretty handily, thanks to the sneaky good 2-3 zone. The huge steals differential was key in both getting more shots and getting a ton of fast break points. We were up 12-5 on fast break points and 20-11 off turnovers.
- Once again, we came back from a big deficit. Once again, mid game everyone bitches that we never come back from big deficits. Once again, people will forget this game the next time we are down. I look forward to this totally unsubstantiated claim once again.
- I don't think III is getting enough credit for moving to a 2-3 zone. Sciambi was confused and for us amateurs of the game, I think rightly so. The 2-3 zone is supposedly to be taken apart by good outside shooting; it's supposed to clog the middle but Indiana didn't have any big men; it doesn't generate a lot of turnovers like tough in your face man. Instead, it generated a decent chunk of turnovers and while it didn't slow down Indiana a lot, it did enough.
- But the key after halftime, other than the shooting, was committing only 2 second half turnovers. That's amazing for this team! Amazing. And it made it so that we scored 47 points in about 39-40 possessions while holding them to 37.
- I don't think the freshmen had a bad game at all. White had people screw up 2-3 assists and picked up 7 rebounds in 20 minutes. Yeah, he missed some shots, but he did well overall. Peak just missed a lot of lay-ups. Copeland and Campbell got little time. I think their time was much more a function of Bowen's explosion playing the small 4 and III wanting Peak and Trawick to be on the floor to guard the 3.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 28, 2014 13:18:04 GMT -5
I think the biggest complaint (in my eyes) with the last play of regulation was that III called the time out to begin with. The D was scrambling back and DSR had beaten his man. I was furious when he called it. We got a good look, but the armchair coach in me thinks it would have been better to let them go in that situation. With more time on the clock, sure call the TO so we assure ourselves to getlast shot,
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kchoya
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Post by kchoya on Dec 28, 2014 13:39:00 GMT -5
I think the biggest complaint (in my eyes) with the last play of regulation was that III called the time out to begin with. The D was scrambling back and DSR had beaten his man. I was furious when he called it. We got a good look, but the armchair coach in me thinks it would have been better to let them go in that situation. With more time on the clock, sure call the TO so we assure ourselves to getlast shot, There are lots of times where he lets the play go on and doesn't call a TO. I doubt we would've gotten a better shot if there was no TO.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Dec 28, 2014 13:44:11 GMT -5
I think the biggest complaint (in my eyes) with the last play of regulation was that III called the time out to begin with. The D was scrambling back and DSR had beaten his man. I was furious when he called it. We got a good look, but the armchair coach in me thinks it would have been better to let them go in that situation. With more time on the clock, sure call the TO so we assure ourselves to getlast shot, There are lots of times where he lets the play go on and doesn't call a TO. I doubt we would've gotten a better shot if there was no TO. But DSR was guaranteed to have the ball in his hands for the last shot which is the best case scenario for G'town.. I agree with Hungry, it was a bad time to call a TO
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Dec 28, 2014 13:50:29 GMT -5
I think the biggest complaint (in my eyes) with the last play of regulation was that III called the time out to begin with. The D was scrambling back and DSR had beaten his man. I was furious when he called it. We got a good look, but the armchair coach in me thinks it would have been better to let them go in that situation. With more time on the clock, sure call the TO so we assure ourselves to getlast shot, There are lots of times where he lets the play go on and doesn't call a TO. I doubt we would've gotten a better shot if there was no TO. Yeah not saying in all cases its a bad move to call time out, but in that instance I think it was. DSR was by his man in the lane for his signature pull up jumper which is automatic
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 28, 2014 14:42:40 GMT -5
Not so sure about "stellar" but its as good as i've seen him play. still looked unnatural for his shots to go in...he had a good, near-great game. sure hope he has that Dante Cunningham arc during the tourney.... Unnatural? He looked like he's practiced those shots thousands and thousands of times in his lifetime....smh the hate. hey rock, i'm not hating, i used to be a big fan of his game; i'm still rooting for him but in my opinion he looks unnatural doing center type moves. smh
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 15:06:38 GMT -5
Unnatural? He looked like he's practiced those shots thousands and thousands of times in his lifetime....smh the hate. hey rock, i'm not hating, i used to be a big fan of his game; i'm still rooting for him but in my opinion he looks unnatural doing center type moves. smh Maybe there's just a disconnect between expectations and realistic expectations then. On both field goals in the first half both moves looked like makes from the second he decided to initiate them. There isn't any more natural those two moves could've looked, tbh. If you disagree then maybe it's because of where your expectations are at. Both field goals were textbook (the running hook better than textbook because it's not an easy shot, similar to Markel's runner) and looked as if they were executed just as he had practiced them time and time again. Just giving him credit where it's due, you make it seem like they were fluke finishes and something that he was unconscious of even doing. His finishing problem isn't that he doesn't have the repertoire of moves, rather it's that he telegraphs his movements and lacks and adequate counter-moves to prevent the defense from capitalizing on the fact that they know exactly what is coming. Either way you're entitled to your opinion. And the phrasing of your post insinuates that, to you, he hasn't played any games above stellar. And you even refused to call this game stellar, even though he was largely the only reason we matched their intensity in the first few minutes. If that's not hate then we just have different definitions of stellar, but I like to use the Meriam-Webster version so who knows.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Dec 28, 2014 15:10:49 GMT -5
Hopkins's first half scoring was critical to keeping the Hoyas in the game, because no one else was contributing. I, for one, have very low expectations offensively for Hop, so I viewed it, at that time, as being a bonus. In retrospect, it proved imperative.
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Dec 28, 2014 15:15:41 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk.
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Dec 28, 2014 15:33:57 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk. I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year.
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sead43
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Post by sead43 on Dec 28, 2014 15:43:14 GMT -5
7. I, among others, felt like a technical foul late in the first half when several blatantly wrong foul calls were made would have been the right move. Not surprisingly, it did not come. However, III worked the officials HARD all game - a couple of times through almost an entire timeout. I think it paid off late in the game when grabbing Hoya cutters and some other defensive fouls were finally called. Of course, you could argue that Aaron Bowen being called for a foul when the IU guy jumped and landed on top of him or when Josh got a foul called because he stood in defensive position and the IU guy ran by him and flopped were evidence to the contrary. I'm pretty surprised JT3 didn't get at least a couple of technicals last night. After a few of those technical calls ESPN showed JT3 clearly cursing quite a bit. My brother (who is a season ticket holder in the 100s) was surprised that JT3 even had that in him. How could JTIII getting a T early in the game possibly have been the right move?? Sure you never really know how one thing affects another, but regulation ended in a tie...IU makes one or two technical free throws and this game is, in theory, an L for the Hoyas. I completely understand the emotional desire sometimes for the coach to get a T to make a point when calls are blantantly bad, and the potential for it to fire up a team, but, to me, 2 FTs and the ball makes it a very different calculation than a baseball manager has for getting tossed. This criticism of JTIII is mentioned often here by many different posters, so i readily acknowledge i may very well be in the minority, but a game like this, where every point mattered, reminds me why i appreciate JTIII's ability to (usually) stay away from the T. As was also mentioned, it is not like he does not know how to get his point across to the officials.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 15:49:25 GMT -5
Brill Clinton #R$ ش @jt55ive 2h2 hours ago Manhattan, NY I love wearing that Georgetown on my chest.. Right over my heart!! #BrillClinton #SHP #NWF #YaKnow @… http://instagram.com/p/xKT0-tP1tQ
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 28, 2014 16:00:06 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk. I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. Yeah, you can't count a missed dunk if he was fouled. Or missing a layup or shot if you are fouled.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Dec 28, 2014 16:00:17 GMT -5
Hop had a very good game in limited (<20) minutes. He made several nice offensive moves. He only had a few head scratchers....the first offensive play of the game and I believe a missed dunk. I agree. And I don't want to keep sounding like a Hop apologist or a broken record put when you go up strong for a dunk, and are hacked and don't finish the dunk and are sent to the line, that IS NOT the same thing as a missed dunk. It becomes confusing for those who base their perceptions largely based off of what is said on this board. He didn't miss a dunk yesterday, he was hacked in the process of attempting one, yet you aren't the first poster to suggest that he did in this thread. I wouldn't be surprised to see similar inconsistencies across most game threads this year. This is exactly the point of my post yesterday on agendas! It seems we have a "find a fault with Hop agenda" on this board even when he has a good game. If this exact play were Peak or Smith or Copeland or Trawick, i'm not sure we would have multiple posts suggesting it was a missed dunk. It's like saying Reggie Cameron's 3 point shot is off if he were to get fouled on his only 3 point attempt of the game. It's just ridiculous!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 16:05:51 GMT -5
Skylar Diggins @skydigg4 Dec 27 This tempo of this Indiana/Georgetown game is insane! Exciting to watch
@jeffeisenberg: If Georgetown-Indiana isn't the most entertaining game of the day, then UK-Louisville is going to be phenomenal.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 28, 2014 16:05:56 GMT -5
I'm pretty surprised JT3 didn't get at least a couple of technicals last night. After a few of those technical calls ESPN showed JT3 clearly cursing quite a bit. My brother (who is a season ticket holder in the 100s) was surprised that JT3 even had that in him. How could JTIII getting a T early in the game possibly have been the right move?? Sure you never really know how one thing affects another, but regulation ended in a tie...IU makes one or two technical free throws and this game is, in theory, an L for the Hoyas. I completely understand the emotional desire sometimes for the coach to get a T to make a point when calls are blantantly bad, and the potential for it to fire up a team, but, to me, 2 FTs and the ball makes it a very different calculation than a baseball manager has for getting tossed. This criticism of JTIII is mentioned often here by many different posters, so i readily acknowledge i may very well be in the minority, but a game like this, where every point mattered, reminds me why i appreciate JTIII's ability to (usually) stay away from the T. As was also mentioned, it is not like he does not know how to get his point across to the officials. More time than not coach getting a T just backfires because it gives the other team free points. I'm sure there's a statistic on it somewhere but people only seem to focus on when that stratagem actually works and even then it's hard to discern whether it was because the coach fired them up with a T or if the players just played better or had better matchups when they went on a run. I also think if it does work it only real works for certain coaches who seem to have alot of personality and charisma like Pitino or Pat Riley or a Jose Mourinho type who are bigger than life. For the majority of coaches who aren't Pitino, the half hearted befuddled attempt to get a technical just ends up giving free points to the opposing team.
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Post by HometownHoya on Dec 28, 2014 16:15:11 GMT -5
I'm pretty surprised JT3 didn't get at least a couple of technicals last night. After a few of those technical calls ESPN showed JT3 clearly cursing quite a bit. My brother (who is a season ticket holder in the 100s) was surprised that JT3 even had that in him. How could JTIII getting a T early in the game possibly have been the right move?? Sure you never really know how one thing affects another, but regulation ended in a tie...IU makes one or two technical free throws and this game is, in theory, an L for the Hoyas. I completely understand the emotional desire sometimes for the coach to get a T to make a point when calls are blantantly bad, and the potential for it to fire up a team, but, to me, 2 FTs and the ball makes it a very different calculation than a baseball manager has for getting tossed. This criticism of JTIII is mentioned often here by many different posters, so i readily acknowledge i may very well be in the minority, but a game like this, where every point mattered, reminds me why i appreciate JTIII's ability to (usually) stay away from the T. As was also mentioned, it is not like he does not know how to get his point across to the officials. I wasnt advocating that he should have gotten a T, I was just surprised that with the language that you could clearly lip-read through the TV that he did not.
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