Daquan Bracey 16 PG verbal to Louisiana Tech

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 11, 2015 15:44:56 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Peak is probably a good example of an ideal college shooting guard. 6-5, 6-9.5 wingspan.

As far as D1 numbers it's hard to find exact numbers because the averages I've seen on the net factor in 351 D1 basketball schools which will skew the average.

I think you really have to look at high majors, teams that make the, sweet 16, final 4 etc. It would be interesting to see what the averages are for more specific groups.

I agree that height like that is ideal for a shooting guard in college, but I also don't think it's common either. According to stats I saw online, the "average" height of a shooting guard in the NBA is 6'4.4 (without shoes) and 6'5.6 (with shoes).

So, you're essentially saying that NBA height for a shooting guard is ideal in college, which I completely agree with. I just think it's highly unrealistic in the college game to always have shooting guards of that height because there simply aren't that many who are actually good, and Georgetown historically hasn't been great about getting them, though Peak is a nice start.


EDIT: For reference, the average NBA point guard heights are: 6'.09 (without shoes) and 6'2.1 (with shoes).

[Deleted]

Last team that that started a 6'5 SG to win a title?

It's not some key to success..

[SFHoya99]

Aug 11, 2015 14:24:05 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Have you guys not been watching the same GTown team that I have been watching over the last 8 yrs? The only teams that have been able to score consistently was the CW, AFree, Monroe teams that had a 6'1" PG, a 6'3" SG, and a 6'2" Combo in their 8 man rotation. All of the long teams have been able to shut teams down but haven't been able to score the ball consistently. I'm tired of seeing 64-61 scores. Even after Greg went pro our boys hung 100 on Mizzou on a neutral court. When was the last time w scored 90 against a HM? Bracey is the type of player that makes scoring easy and he will be combo-ed with 6'4" and betters. Why are we so resistant to trying to play a different brand of O? If he does commit and it doesn't seem to be working than he will leave after 2 yrs of riding the pine. That still would leave us with a team of Tre, Jagan, Kaleb, Marcus, Tyler, PW, Trey, and maybe Jesse and whomever we recruit in 2016...........

While I don't disagree with the sentiment that Bracey would bring something different to the table and that the offense would allow a penetrator to shine ...

...the 2006 and 2007 teams both had offenses as effective as the 2010 team.

...we scored 90 versus a HM twice last year, though both were in OT (as was the Mizzou game). We also did it twice in the trainwreck of the 2014 season, both in regulation (Florida St. and Kansas St.).

So yeah, I mean, thought is right but not quite there on the backup.

[SFHoya99]

Aug 11, 2015 15:38:56 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

In the class of 2015 the staff went after a lot of top 25-75 guards (and a few top 25), and we didn't land anybody. That's not to say we shouldn't try to do that, but I think when it comes to guards, we do need to try to get some under the radar types (which means by default they won't be ranked high, etc.) until we can more successfully recruit the higher ranked guys.

Wright and Freeman's commitments happened around the Final Four era, so it's no shock that we pulled in higher ranked guards at that point. Until we do something similar (or have a good guard who is a lotto pick), I think getting those guys will be tough.

The great thing about guards is that it's not all too infrequent to get under-the-radar types who are really, really, good. That happens a lot less frequently among forwards and centers.

While we missed in 2015 until getting "just outside of the Top 100" Kaleb Johnson, and we definitely haven't done well with very highly ranked guards recently, we did just have #62 LJ Peak in 2014 and #37 DSR in 2012.

Markel was Top 100, and Trawick, Johnson and Tre Campbell were just right outside. So of the last six guards we signed, 1/3rd were in the Top 75, another Top 100, and half just outside. We'll wait on Foster and Jagan to see their ranking.

We're not hopeless with the mid-range players. Top 25 has been a struggle across all positions.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 11, 2015 15:55:47 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

We're not hopeless with the mid-range players. Top 25 has been a struggle across all positions.

I agree. I just think we need to go after a combination of top 75 type talent, and also the Trawick/Johnson/Campbell type talent on the fringes in the event the mid-level guys don't pan out.

[professorhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:48:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 11, 2015 15:44:56 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Peak is probably a good example of an ideal college shooting guard. 6-5, 6-9.5 wingspan.

As far as D1 numbers it's hard to find exact numbers because the averages I've seen on the net factor in 351 D1 basketball schools which will skew the average.

I think you really have to look at high majors, teams that make the, sweet 16, final 4 etc. It would be interesting to see what the averages are for more specific groups.

I agree that height like that is ideal for a shooting guard in college, but I also don't think it's common either. According to stats I saw online, the "average" height of a shooting guard in the NBA is 6'4.4 (without shoes) and 6'5.6 (with shoes).

So, you're essentially saying that NBA height for a shooting guard is ideal in college, which I completely agree with. I just think it's highly unrealistic in the college game to always have shooting guards of that height because there simply aren't that many who are actually good, and Georgetown historically hasn't been great about getting them, though Peak is a nice start.


EDIT: For reference, the average NBA point guard heights are: 6'.09 (without shoes) and 6'2.1 (with shoes).

Yeah that's what I'm saying. If you have NBA caliber players at each position in college not only does it make you a better college team but it gives our guys the best possible chance to succeed at the next level.

Peak likely can't make it at the next level at small forward. Too short. He will have to play shooting guard in the NBA. So why not develop him at the position that he will have to play in the NBA.

Same thing with Jagan Mosely. At 6-2/6-3 he probably won't make it as a shooting guard or even combo guard at the next level. But as a point guard he has elite measureables like John Wall/Westbrook/Derrick Rose/Steve Francis. Jagan's well aware of it himself as he's said in interviews that he knows he will have to play point guard if he were to make the NBA. So it's in his best interest and ultimately our best interest to play him alot at the point so he gets the experience and skill level of a point guard while he is here. Ultimately if he blows up into a Wall/Westbrook/Rose level PG in the NBA that helps our recruiting.

[prhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 12:00:23 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Thus, a lot of the hand-wringing about Bracey's height might be somewhat academic, at least for the next two seasons.

And he could have a growth spurt in college... Lic, check the plates...

[rockhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 16:00:05 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Aug 11, 2015 15:48:12 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

I agree that height like that is ideal for a shooting guard in college, but I also don't think it's common either. According to stats I saw online, the "average" height of a shooting guard in the NBA is 6'4.4 (without shoes) and 6'5.6 (with shoes).

So, you're essentially saying that NBA height for a shooting guard is ideal in college, which I completely agree with. I just think it's highly unrealistic in the college game to always have shooting guards of that height because there simply aren't that many who are actually good, and Georgetown historically hasn't been great about getting them, though Peak is a nice start.


EDIT: For reference, the average NBA point guard heights are: 6'.09 (without shoes) and 6'2.1 (with shoes).

Yeah that's what I'm saying. If you have NBA caliber players at each position in college not only does it make you a better college team but it gives our guys the best possible chance to succeed at the next level.

Peak likely can't make it at the next level at small forward. Too short. He will have to play shooting guard in the NBA. So why not develop him at the position that he will have to play in the NBA.

Same thing with Jagan Mosely. At 6-2/6-3 he probably won't make it as a shooting guard or even combo guard at the next level. But as a point guard he has elite measureables like John Wall/Westbrook/Derrick Rose/Steve Francis. Jagan's well aware of it himself as he's said in interviews that he knows he will have to play point guard if he were to make the NBA. So it's in his best interest and ultimately our best interest to play him alot at the point so he gets the experience and skill level of a point guard while he is here. Ultimately if he blows up into a Wall/Westbrook/Rose level PG in the NBA that helps our recruiting.

Reminds me a little bit of a less shifty Kris Dunn

[prhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 12:56:38 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 11:57:50 GMT -5 dungeon ball said:

Good shooters ain't good shooters if they don't have some space to shoot. Drive and kick. It took Markel four years to be able to do it, as well as Jabril. Am I missing anyone else recently that has remotely been able to? Are any of the guards we're on supposed to be as good as Bracey at penetrating? This is a valuable skill, that coupled with other strengths on the team, makes the team much better.

We have length at the guard position coming in now, I want someone that can create for others.

But JT3 doesn't play a drive & kick system, that has to matter some in this.. Pitino loves quick guards who press 94 feet.. Ollie loves the high screen/PnR stuff..

To me it's tough to compare how kids performed for Pitino & Ollie with how kids will perform for JT3..

No more standing around in our offense. Ever. You stand, you sit.

[prhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 14:24:05 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Why are we so resistant to trying to play a different brand of O?

It's our Height Czar Ranch...

[hoyaboy1]

I could live with Bracey's height but from what I've seen here he isn't a particularly good shooter either, and that isn't a great combo. Also doesn't seem like he'd pair that well with Mosely who needs to improve his shooting as well.

[prhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:38:56 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The great thing about guards is that it's not all too infrequent to get under-the-radar types who are really, really, good. That happens a lot less frequently among forwards and centers.

Exactly.

[FrazierFanatic]

Aug 11, 2015 16:37:51 GMT -5 hoyaboy1 said:

I could live with Bracey's height but from what I've seen here he isn't a particularly good shooter either, and that isn't a great combo. Also doesn't seem like he'd pair that well with Mosely who needs to improve his shooting as well.

This is more of a concern than the height issue to me. If you have no shot, they back off and make it harder to penetrate. Bril became a more effective driver when he became a threat from the perimeter.

[EtomicB]

Aug 11, 2015 14:42:49 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Aug 11, 2015 14:16:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that he adjusts but he doesn't change it fully.. All coaches should allow some freedom to their players..

Here's the thing though if a player like Jabril, a player who wasn't exactly nimble can drive & kick @ 6-5..

why can't Peak or Tre or Mosely or some other taller kid fill that role?

I do think Bracey is a good player but I don't think he fits that well..

I wouldn't take him before I see what's up with Brown, Jones and Myles Powell too..

There's a difference between someone whose elite at something already and somebody who may or may not be able to develop that skill.. It's a team it's not one player, he brings an element those kids do not possess currently. Could they develop that skill? Yes. They also Could Not develop that skill.

It's not argument for him over those kids it's an argument for supporting the philosophy. You guys were against him without those players even in the picture.

In order for the team to take advantage of the skills he has, it will require practice.. It's not as easy as rolling the ball out there and saying make it happen..

The other players are gonna have to know where to be & Bracey will have to learn all of the what if scenarios as well..

I don't see JT3 dedicating much practice time in this.. I still remember Bilas making the comment that G'town practices the fast break less than any team he's watched practice..

Earlier in the spring JT3 told Standig that only 2 players(Campbell & Govan) couldn't play multiple spots, Yesterday he said this years team is as versatile as he's had in awhile, how he can play kids in different spots and not "pigeonhole" kids into spots..

My thing is he's finally assembled a team that on paper can play the way the 05-06, 06-07 & 07-08 teams played so why not continue stacking the roster with kids who can integrate into the system more easily?

You're right in that it is a philosophy issue with me, Bracey is talented but I'm not sold at all on his fit..

[AvantGuardHoya]

Lord have mercy, my head's going to explode!

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 17:09:39 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 14:42:49 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

There's a difference between someone whose elite at something already and somebody who may or may not be able to develop that skill.. It's a team it's not one player, he brings an element those kids do not possess currently. Could they develop that skill? Yes. They also Could Not develop that skill.

It's not argument for him over those kids it's an argument for supporting the philosophy. You guys were against him without those players even in the picture.

In order for the team to take advantage of the skills he has, it will require practice.. It's not as easy as rolling the ball out there and saying make it happen..

The other players are gonna have to know where to be & Bracey will have to learn all of the what if scenarios as well..

I don't see JT3 dedicating much practice time in this.. I still remember Bilas making the comment that G'town practices the fast break less than any team he's watched practice..

Earlier in the spring JT3 told Standig that only 2 players(Campbell & Govan) couldn't play multiple spots, Yesterday he said this years team is as versatile as he's had in awhile, how he can play kids in different spots and not "pigeonhole" kids into spots..

My thing is he's finally assembled a team that on paper can play the way the 05-06, 06-07 & 07-08 teams played so why not continue stacking the roster with kids who can integrate into the system easily?

You're right in that it is a philosophy issue with me, Bracey is talented but I'm not sold at all on his fit..

Short memories, when CW and Free and Clark were here we did plenty of drive and kick.. That was half our offense. Chris creating off the bounce and kicking it to shooters in Clark Hollis and Free. Even last year when we beat Butler that was the exact play 3 drew up. Brill was to drive if he got stopped kick it out to shooters, he found Ike.

No matter what we do on offense we have to practice it's never as easy as rolling the ball out there but let's be honest. Kids grow up playing that way more than they do running the Princeton. It's more natural for them to run Pnr and drive and kick sets than our offense, am I lying?

Neither one of us knows what goes on in a Gtown practice but if you have 10 kids that can play multiple spots and a playmaker to get them the ball in their spots, what's not to like? 3 isn't stupid every offense needs facilitators. Which kid on this roster is capable of averaging 4 assists a game?

If you have a bunch of kids that can only play in a system your offense will be predictable. At some point you have to be able to go outside of your offense and make a play. Having a guy or 2 like that on your team is perfectly fine. You guys are acting like he's slotted for 35min a game every night for the next 4 years. He's a change of pace guy likely a backup but a high quality one.

[RBHoya]

Aug 11, 2015 12:30:23 GMT -5 daymondmyles said:

So people were panicking about lack of guards. Then we land one and we can be extra picky?

Actually, yea. I wasn't among the handwringers myself, but I figure we're looking for 2 guards in this class. If we now have a solid one locked up in Mosely, and we've got a good few more with legitimate interest, why not aim high? It's not like it's the spring period and we have to try to round out the roster with any ballhandler we can get. Plenty of time left to sign rising seniors and we're in the mix for some good ones. Personally, I think a kid like Woods is probably a longshot and maybe Jones and Brown are too, but I would rather wait to see where those guys end up then rush into Bracey. I think Jones would be the perfect backcourt mate for Mosely because they could split the ballhandling duties and Jones can really put the ball in the basket. And a Brown/Mosely backcourt would be really, really fun to root for.

As far as Bracey goes, I share Etomic's viewpoint. And to some extent, RD's too. Being short for your natural position isn't insurmountable, but it's certainly a negative. And to compensate for that negative you need to be either very good at just about everything else, or unbelievable at one aspect of the game. I'm not quite sold yet on Bracey being either. Being a short point guard can be alright, but if you're a short point guard and not an excellent outside shooter, I think it can be an uphill battle at the college level. If a defense can back off of you a little, you have to be a pretty crazy athlete to drive past them anyway. And I hate to point to the rankings because I recognize that they're far from being the final authority, but I think a lot of other scouts are concerned about it too which is why he's nowhere to be found in any of the national rankings. Combine that with the fact that he only has us, Marquette and K State for high major offers, and I think you have to ask yourself whether or not we're seeing something in this kid that others aren't, or if we're overvaluing him a bit for whatever reason. Both are possible, it just doesn't seem like the national scouts or many high major coaches are seeing what we are, which makes me a little apprehensive.

On paper he reminds me of another local product from a few years ago:

-Listed alternatively at 5'9 or 5'10

-Ranked 126 in the country by Rivals, unranked 2 or 3 star everywhere else

-ESPNU described him as

• "Plays in attack mode
  
• Can score off the dribble by splitting defenders for pull up jumpers, floaters and acrobatic layups in the lane
  
• Can drive, draw and kick and get to the rim in transition
  
• He is small, but fearless
  
• He competes and plays with confidence

Sounds similar to the scouting report on Bracey, right?  Similiarly ranked, or ranked slightly higher.  But it's actually about Daryl Traynham, who committed to UMass and was an OK but unspectacular player for them before getting kicked out.  Basically a mediocre player in a mediocre mid-major setting.

I'm by no means saying Bracey is Traynham, because at this point who knows?  But on the surface there's a lot of similarity, which is something to consider alongside the Andre Barrets and the Peyton Siva's and the other really good small guards discussed in this thread.  I'm afraid some may be seeing him as what they want him to be rather than what he is simply because he seems to like Georgetown.

I actually think there's a decent chance we end up with him, and so I hope it works out.  But there are certainly some other options on the table at the moment that I'd prefer. 

[Deleted]

? Traynham played 10 games total for UMASS...


I encourage people to stop reading scouting reports and actually watch the kid play.. Whole lot of opinions based on ...

[EtomicB]

Aug 11, 2015 17:26:42 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Aug 11, 2015 17:09:39 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

In order for the team to take advantage of the skills he has, it will require practice.. It's not as easy as rolling the ball out there and saying make it happen..

The other players are gonna have to know where to be & Bracey will have to learn all of the what if scenarios as well..

I don't see JT3 dedicating much practice time in this.. I still remember Bilas making the comment that G'town practices the fast break less than any team he's watched practice..

Earlier in the spring JT3 told Standig that only 2 players(Campbell & Govan) couldn't play multiple spots, Yesterday he said this years team is as versatile as he's had in awhile, how he can play kids in different spots and not "pigeonhole" kids into spots..

My thing is he's finally assembled a team that on paper can play the way the 05-06, 06-07 & 07-08 teams played so why not continue stacking the roster with kids who can integrate into the system easily?

You're right in that it is a philosophy issue with me, Bracey is talented but I'm not sold at all on his fit..

Short memories, when CW and Free and Clark were here we did plenty of drive and kick.. That was half our offense. Chris creating off the bounce and kicking it to shooters in Clark Hollis and Free. Even last year when we beat Butler that was the exact play 3 drew up. Brill was to drive if he got stopped kick it out to shooters, he found Ike.

No matter what we do on offense we have to practice it's never as easy as rolling the ball out there but let's be honest. Kids grow up playing that way more than they do running the Princeton. It's more natural for them to run Pnr and drive and kick sets than our offense, am I lying?

Neither one of us knows what goes on in a Gtown practice but if you have 10 kids that can play multiple spots and a playmaker to get them the ball in their spots, what's not to like? 3 isn't stupid every offense needs facilitators. Which kid on this roster is capable of averaging 4 assists a game?

If you have a bunch of kids that can only play in a system your offense will be predictable. At some point you have to be able to go outside of your offense and make a play. Having a guy or 2 like that on your team is perfectly fine. You guys are acting like he's slotted for 35min a game every night for the next 4 years. He's a change of pace guy likely a backup but a high quality one.

I am in need of Ginkoba no doubt cause all I remember is screaming about Vaughn holding the ball too long at the top of the key..

I get what you're saying Yaboy and I have no doubt what you're saying is true.. However with that line-up I can see JT3 going that route, the strength of the team was in it's back-court.. Front court kids like Vaughn or Sims or Benimon couldn't be a focal point..

That won't be the case next season even if Copeland breaks out and decides to go pro, next season's team will be built to play like 3's early teams which didn't run a lot of drive/kick stuff.. Not that I remember anyways..

It's all good though, if Bracey were to come to G'town I'll root like crazy for him..

Just like you'll do for Powell if he comes.. lol..

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 18:36:32 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 17:26:42 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Short memories, when CW and Free and Clark were here we did plenty of drive and kick.. That was half our offense. Chris creating off the bounce and kicking it to shooters in Clark Hollis and Free. Even last year when we beat Butler that was the exact play 3 drew up. Brill was to drive if he got stopped kick it out to shooters, he found Ike.

No matter what we do on offense we have to practice it's never as easy as rolling the ball out there but let's be honest. Kids grow up playing that way more than they do running the Princeton. It's more natural for them to run Pnr and drive and kick sets than our offense, am I lying?

Neither one of us knows what goes on in a Gtown practice but if you have 10 kids that can play multiple spots and a playmaker to get them the ball in their spots, what's not to like? 3 isn't stupid every offense needs facilitators. Which kid on this roster is capable of averaging 4 assists a game?

If you have a bunch of kids that can only play in a system your offense will be predictable. At some point you have to be able to go outside of your offense and make a play. Having a guy or 2 like that on your team is perfectly fine. You guys are acting like he's slotted for 35min a game every night for the next 4 years. He's a change of pace guy likely a backup but a high quality one.

I am in need of Ginkoba no doubt cause all I remember is screaming about Vaughn holding the ball too long at the top of the key..

I get what you're saying Yaboy and I have no doubt what you're saying is true.. However with that line-up I can see JT3 going that route, the strength of the team was in it's back-court.. Front court kids like Vaughn or Sims or Benimon couldn't be a focal point..

That won't be the case next season even if Copeland breaks out and decides to go pro, next season's team will be built to play like 3's early teams which didn't run a lot of drive/kick stuff.. Not that I remember anyways..

It's all good though, if Bracey were to come to G'town I'll root like crazy for him..

Just like you'll do for Powell if he comes.. lol..

Chris avg'd 5.3 assts that season..

I don't have to worry about that last part so we're good! Haha