Daquan Bracey 16 PG verbal to Louisiana Tech

[tashoya]

Aug 11, 2015 12:30:23 GMT -5 daymondmyles said:

So people were panicking about lack of guards. Then we land one and we can be extra picky?

Um.... yeah. Welcome to HoyaTalk!!

[EtomicB]

Aug 11, 2015 11:57:50 GMT -5 dungeon ball said:

Good shooters ain't good shooters if they don't have some space to shoot. Drive and kick. It took Markel four years to be able to do it, as well as Jabril. Am I missing anyone else recently that has remotely been able to? Are any of the guards we're on supposed to be as good as Bracey at penetrating? This is a valuable skill, that coupled with other strengths on the team, makes the team much better.

We have length at the guard position coming in now, I want someone that can create for others.

But JT3 doesn't play a drive & kick system, that has to matter some in this.. Pitino loves quick guards who press 94 feet.. Ollie loves the high screen/PnR stuff..

To me it's tough to compare how kids performed for Pitino & Ollie with how kids will perform for JT3..

[Hoyas4Ever]

Aug 11, 2015 10:59:31 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 10:38:23 GMT -5 Hoyas4Ever said:

I've seen Day Day play once and funny enough it was against future Hoya Tyler Foster as St. Francis and Gilman were playing. JT3 was there obviously watching Bracey and Rafus they reportedly had already been offered by Georgetown) as well obviously Foster. Tyler was the best player on the court that night as he was highly engaged and in attack mode finishing with a game high 27 that night leading to the upset win for his Gilman squad. What I took away from that night was regarding Dequan's game is that when he wants to, he can get into the paint at will and create for himself and his teammates. That's the dynamic I think JT3 and other coaches see in him. He could develop into a real weapon especially with shot clock finally being lowered to 30 seconds. You put the ball In this kids hands at the end of the shot clock and run pick n rolls and have him attack the paint area. He can become a major problem to stop because he will create positive opportunities out of nowhere for himself and teammates. The kid is ultra shifty and hard to guard going north and south.

If surround him with elite size and length in the other 4 players (6'6" and above) on the floor with him, then you don't have to worry so much defensively and you can let his quickness be a weapon that makes up for Day Day's overall height.

So you're saying Peak, Tre, Mosely & Foster will have a hard time playing with Bracey?

If that's the case then I definitely don't think he's a fit @ G'town

I think Peak will be heading to the NBA after this season so he won't play with Bracey. If Peak is still playing for us in 16-17, he and Mosely both have extremely long wingspans that make up for their overall height. They play bigger then their height. Foster is probably still growing and could very much be 6'6"-6'7" when he steps on campus in 2017. Even if Foster doesn't grow anymore he also has a very long wingspan as well. I don't think you will ever see Bracey and Campbell on the court together unless we are trying to play small ball. So so outside of Tre, (because they play same position) I think the others could easily play with Bracey because of their overall length.

All this is probably pointless because I don't think we are getting Bracey anymore. I have no insider information. Just a hunch!

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 12:56:38 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 11:57:50 GMT -5 dungeon ball said:

Good shooters ain't good shooters if they don't have some space to shoot. Drive and kick. It took Markel four years to be able to do it, as well as Jabril. Am I missing anyone else recently that has remotely been able to? Are any of the guards we're on supposed to be as good as Bracey at penetrating? This is a valuable skill, that coupled with other strengths on the team, makes the team much better.

We have length at the guard position coming in now, I want someone that can create for others.

But JT3 doesn't play a drive & kick system, that has to matter some in this.. Pitino loves quick guards who press 94 feet.. Ollie loves the high screen/PnR stuff..

To me it's tough to compare how kids performed for Pitino & Ollie with how kids will perform for JT3..

3 always adapts his system to his personnel. Bril drove and kicked plenty last year tbh we needed more of it

[calhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 13:23:05 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Aug 11, 2015 12:56:38 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

But JT3 doesn't play a drive & kick system, that has to matter some in this.. Pitino loves quick guards who press 94 feet.. Ollie loves the high screen/PnR stuff..

To me it's tough to compare how kids performed for Pitino & Ollie with how kids will perform for JT3..

3 always adapts his system to his personnel. Bril drove and kicked plenty last year tbh we needed more of it

Well I agree that JT III has learned to adapt his system to his personnel, but I don't think that has been his history until recently. My two cents on this are that bigger is always better if all things are relatively equal. However, if the smallish guard has a quality skillset and is more prepared to impact the team you go small.

[EtomicB]

Aug 11, 2015 13:23:05 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

Aug 11, 2015 12:56:38 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

But JT3 doesn't play a drive & kick system, that has to matter some in this.. Pitino loves quick guards who press 94 feet.. Ollie loves the high screen/PnR stuff..

To me it's tough to compare how kids performed for Pitino & Ollie with how kids will perform for JT3..

3 always adapts his system to his personnel. Bril drove and kicked plenty last year tbh we needed more of it

I agree that he adjusts but he doesn't change it fully.. All coaches should allow some freedom to their players..

Here's the thing though if a player like Jabril, a player who wasn't exactly nimble can drive & kick @ 6-5..

why can't Peak or Tre or Mosely or some other taller kid fill that role?

I do think Bracey is a good player but I don't think he fits that well..

I wouldn't take him before I see what's up with Brown, Jones and Myles Powell too..

[hoyazeke]

Have you guys not been watching the same GTown team that I have been watching over the last 8 yrs? The only teams that have been able to score consistently was the CW, AFree, Monroe teams that had a 6'1" PG, a 6'3" SG, and a 6'2" Combo in their 8 man rotation. All of the long teams have been able to shut teams down but haven't been able to score the ball consistently. I'm tired of seeing 64-61 scores. Even after Greg went pro our boys hung 100 on Mizzou on a neutral court. When was the last time w scored 90 against a HM? Bracey is the type of player that makes scoring easy and he will be combo-ed with 6'4" and betters. Why are we so resistant to trying to play a different brand of O? If he does commit and it doesn't seem to be working than he will leave after 2 yrs of riding the pine. That still would leave us with a team of Tre, Jagan, Kaleb, Marcus, Tyler, PW, Trey, and maybe Jesse and whomever we recruit in 2016...........

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 14:16:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Aug 11, 2015 13:23:05 GMT -5 @yaboynyp said:

3 always adapts his system to his personnel. Bril drove and kicked plenty last year tbh we needed more of it

I agree that he adjusts but he doesn't change it fully.. All coaches should allow some freedom to their players..

Here's the thing though if a player like Jabril, a player who wasn't exactly nimble can drive & kick @ 6-5..

why can't Peak or Tre or Mosely or some other taller kid fill that role?

I do think Bracey is a good player but I don't think he fits that well..

I wouldn't take him before I see what's up with Brown, Jones and Myles Powell too..

There's a difference between someone whose elite at something already and somebody who may or may not be able to develop that skill.. It's a team it's not one player, he brings an element those kids do not possess currently. Could they develop that skill? Yes. They also Could Not develop that skill.

It's not argument for him over those kids it's an argument for supporting the philosophy. You guys were against him without those players even in the picture.

[EtomicB]

Aug 11, 2015 14:24:05 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Have you guys not been watching the same GTown team that I have been watching over the last 8 yrs? The only teams that have been able to score consistently was the CW, AFree, Monroe teams that had a 6'1" PG, a 6'3" SG, and a 6'2" Combo in their 8 man rotation. All of the long teams have been able to shut teams down but haven't been able to score the ball consistently. I'm tired of seeing 64-61 scores. Even after Greg went pro our boys hung 100 on Mizzou on a neutral court. When was the last time w scored 90 against a HM? Bracey is the type of player that makes scoring easy and he will be combo-ed with 6'4" and betters. Why are we so resistant to trying to play a different brand of O? If he does commit and it doesn't seem to be working than he will leave after 2 yrs of riding the pine. That still would leave us with a team of Tre, Jagan, Kaleb, Marcus, Tyler, PW, Trey, and maybe Jesse and whomever we recruit in 2016...........

They scored 91 against IU last season and scored over 90 @ Marquette too..

I think you're beating your head against a stonewall to think JT3 is gonna go away from his basketball philosophies, just in the same way it's crazy for L'ville fans to constantly want for more efficiency in the half court or UNC fans to want more defense ect..

Don't you see how interchangeable all the players you named were? They fit JT3's system so it's not a surprise to me they lit teams up..

Coaches have to coach to what they believe in, so I say recruit to it without fail..

[professorhoya]

What exactly is Bracey's ranking?

Rivals doesn't even rank him. Zero stars.

247Composite has him unranked.
247 Ranking is 3 stars, 182nd ranking.

I just don't get what all the buzz is on here about the guy when there really isn't that much interest on the guy among the big players. You would think he's a mini Iverson with the way he is being hyped up but if he was he would have national attention and 4-5 star ranking.

[hoyasaxa2003]

The fact is, the main reason people are giving Bracey trouble is his size. I can understand that, but John Thompson III and the staff have never been in the habit of recruiting smaller players. I can even remember a few years back, JT3 made a comment along the lines of recruiting bigger and more athletic players than he had been.

Given that Bracey is basically the ONLY player in memory that I can recall the staff recruiting, under 6'0, in the last several years, I have to think the staff sees something there they really like. Otherwise, they could easily turn to other guys. I will trust them if that's the case. As I said, it's not like the staff is out there recruiting a team of sub-6 feet guys.

[professorhoya]

We already have our future point guard in Jagan Mosely. Eric Harrield compares him to Russell Westbrook, who plays point guard. There really is not a need to have a 3rd point.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 15:23:51 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

What exactly is Bracey's ranking?

Rivals doesn't even rank him. Zero stars.

247Composite has him unranked.
247 Ranking is 3 stars, 182nd ranking.

I just don't get what all the buzz is on here about the guy when there really isn't that much interest on the guy among the big players. You would think he's a mini Iverson with the way he is being hyped up but if he was he would have national attention and 4-5 star ranking.

Buzz?? Just think your arguments against him are very silly, including the one above..

[professorhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:28:25 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The fact is, the main reason people are giving Bracey trouble is his size. I can understand that, but John Thompson III and the staff has never been in the habit of recruiting smaller players. I can even remember a few years back, JT3 made a comment along the lines of recruiting bigger and more athletic players than he had been.

Given that Bracey is basically the ONLY player in memory that I can recall the staff recruiting, under 6'0, in the last several years, I have to think the staff sees something there they really like. Otherwise, they could easily turn to other guys. I will trust them if that's the case. As I said, it's not like the staff is out there recruiting a team of sub-6 feet guys.

It's size plus ranking. If he was a 5 star then I can overlook the size but he's not really ranked by alot of services and the service that has him ranked has him rated at 182nd which is low 3 star.

[Deleted]

Aug 11, 2015 15:30:25 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Aug 11, 2015 15:28:25 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The fact is, the main reason people are giving Bracey trouble is his size. I can understand that, but John Thompson III and the staff has never been in the habit of recruiting smaller players. I can even remember a few years back, JT3 made a comment along the lines of recruiting bigger and more athletic players than he had been.

Given that Bracey is basically the ONLY player in memory that I can recall the staff recruiting, under 6'0, in the last several years, I have to think the staff sees something there they really like. Otherwise, they could easily turn to other guys. I will trust them if that's the case. As I said, it's not like the staff is out there recruiting a team of sub-6 feet guys.

It's size plus ranking. If he was a 5 star then I can overlook the size but he's not really ranked by alot of services and the service that has him ranked has him rated at 182nd which is low 3 star.

You don't think they've factored size into the ranking? You're gonna dock him again for being short?

Also - Jagan is ranked 196 on 24/7.

[professorhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:32:25 GMT -5 @nychoya94 said:

Aug 11, 2015 15:30:25 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

It's size plus ranking. If he was a 5 star then I can overlook the size but he's not really ranked by alot of services and the service that has him ranked has him rated at 182nd which is low 3 star.

You don't think they've factored size into the ranking? You're gonna dock him again for being short?

Also - Jagan is ranked 196 on 24/7.

They didn't dock Tyler Uliis, who is shorter. So I have to believe there is more to it than he's just short.

[hoyasaxa2003]

In the class of 2015 the staff went after a lot of top 25-75 guards (and a few top 25), and we didn't land anybody. That's not to say we shouldn't try to do that, but I think when it comes to guards, we do need to try to get some under the radar types (which means by default they won't be ranked high, etc.) until we can more successfully recruit the higher ranked guys.

Wright and Freeman's commitments happened around the Final Four era, so it's no shock that we pulled in higher ranked guards at that point. Until we do something similar (or have a good guard who is a lotto pick), I think getting those guys will be tough.

The great thing about guards is that it's not all too infrequent to get under-the-radar types who are really, really, good. That happens a lot less frequently among forwards and centers.

[professorhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:32:25 GMT -5 @nychoya94 said:

Aug 11, 2015 15:30:25 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

It's size plus ranking. If he was a 5 star then I can overlook the size but he's not really ranked by alot of services and the service that has him ranked has him rated at 182nd which is low 3 star.

Also - Jagan is ranked 196 on 24/7.

That's probably about right for Jagan as a shooting guard. He's undersized for shooting guard. Most of his upside comes from him being able to play point guard where he has elite measureables.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Does anybody know the average starting point and shooting guard heights in Division I or high-majors in Division I? My sense is that somebody like Jagan is average height for a shooting guard. I realize he might bring more of an advantage at PG, but if he plays SG I don't think it is necessarily fair to say he is "undersized" - how big is he supposed to be?

[professorhoya]

Aug 11, 2015 15:41:24 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Does anybody know the average starting point and shooting guard heights in Division I or high-majors in Division I? My sense is that somebody like Jagan is average height for a shooting guard. I realize he might bring more of an advantage at PG, but if he plays SG I don't think it is necessarily fair to say he is "undersized" - how big is he supposed to be?

Peak is probably a good example of an ideal college shooting guard. 6-5, 6-9.5 wingspan.

As far as D1 numbers it's hard to find exact numbers because the averages I've seen on the net factor in 351 D1 basketball schools which will skew the average.

I think you really have to look at high majors, teams that make the, sweet 16, final 4 etc. It would be interesting to see what the averages are for more specific groups.