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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 11:55:49 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard... Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court.. Peyton Siva is 6-1 in shoes (5-11.5 barefoot), 6-3 wingspan, insane 41.5 inch vertical. www.draftexpress.com/profile/Peyton-Siva-5282/Russ Smith is 6-.75 in shoes (5-11.5 barefoot), 6-3.5 wingspan, 37 vertical. www.draftexpress.com/profile/Russ-Smith-19043/stats/Neither guy is tiny for a college point. They are probably about average height or slightly below average for an elite level D1 college program. I mean Starks is 6-1.5 in shoes (6-.75 barefoot), 6.4.5 wingspan Chris Wright 6-1.5 in shoes (6-.5 barefoot), 6-4 wingspan and I didn't think they were short at the college level. The range I see for Bracey is between 5-9 to 5-11. The 5-11 is likely his in shoes height. He could still grow but as it is now he's roughly 2 inches shorter than Siva/Smith/Starks/Wright who are considered average height/or "short". |
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Post by dungeon ball on Aug 11, 2015 11:57:50 GMT -5
Good shooters ain't good shooters if they don't have some space to shoot. Drive and kick. It took Markel four years to be able to do it, as well as Jabril. Am I missing anyone else recently that has remotely been able to? Are any of the guards we're on supposed to be as good as Bracey at penetrating? This is a valuable skill, that coupled with other strengths on the team, makes the team much better.
We have length at the guard position coming in now, I want someone that can create for others.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 11:59:25 GMT -5
Regardless, now that we have Jagan Mosely, I'd pass on Bracey. Because the point guards next year will be Tre Cambell and Mosely (with Mosely splitting time between there and shooting guard).
If you have Jagan Mosely, Bracey and Tre Campbell it basically forces Jagan Mosely out of the point guard position which makes us short at two positions (PG and SG) and also retards Mosely's development at point guard. (which is the position Jagan would have to play in the NBA).
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 11, 2015 12:00:23 GMT -5
Thinking about this last night, what type of role do we envision Bracey playing? I imagine Campbell will play a lot this year - perhaps even be the main point guard, if DSR plays more of a shooting guard role at times - and Campbell should easily be the starting PG the next two years. Thus, you're looking at junior year before Bracey is the starting PG (and it doesn't seem he would fit any other role).
Thus, are we really thinking Bracey would be a key player with 30-35 minutes anyway, at least before his junior year? I would be shocked if Campbell doesn't get 30-35 minutes his junior and senior years, unless we bring in a top flight PG (unlikely). I don't see Bracey taking all those minutes from Campbell. Thus, a lot of the hand-wringing about Bracey's height might be somewhat academic, at least for the next two seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 12:02:10 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard... Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court.. Peyton Siva is 6-1 in shoes (5-11.5 barefoot), 6-3 wingspan, insane 41.5 inch vertical. www.draftexpress.com/profile/Peyton-Siva-5282/Russ Smith is 6-.75 in shoes (5-11.5 barefoot), 6-3.5 wingspan, 37 vertical. www.draftexpress.com/profile/Russ-Smith-19043/stats/Neither guy is tiny for a college point. They are probably about average height or slightly below average for an elite level D1 college program. I mean Starks is 6-1.5 in shoes (6-.75 barefoot), 6.4.5 wingspan Chris Wright 6-1.5 in shoes (6-.5 barefoot), 6-4 wingspan and I didn't think they were short at the college level. The range I see for Bracey is between 5-9 to 5-11. The 5-11 is likely his in shoes height. He could still grow but as it is now he's roughly 2 inches shorter than Siva/Smith/Starks/Wright who are considered average height/or "short". You nor I know this kids true height but Bruh not much difference between 5'11 in shoes and 6ft/ 6'1 in shoes... Lol Those extra two inches isn't what made them difference makers in College, it's their ability to create and make the game easier for others.. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 12:02:52 GMT -5
Sorry about that - it was simply the top return on my google search and so I went with it.
It would appear there is a discrepancy as I have now seen other sites that list him at 5'10".
Let's split the difference -- the revised challenge is to think of 5'10" and under successful Big East PGs who led their teams to the NCAAs.
I can't think of many off-hand. Sherman Douglas was listed at 6'.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 12:08:49 GMT -5
Thinking about this last night, what type of role do we envision Bracey playing? I imagine Campbell will play a lot this year - perhaps even be the main point guard, if DSR plays more of a shooting guard role at times - and Campbell should easily be the starting PG the next two years. Thus, you're looking at junior year before Bracey is the starting PG (and it doesn't seem he would fit any other role). Thus, are we really thinking Bracey would be a key player with 30-35 minutes anyway, at least before his junior year? I would be shocked if Campbell doesn't get 30-35 minutes his junior and senior years, unless we bring in a top flight PG (unlikely). I don't see Bracey taking all those minutes from Campbell. Thus, a lot of the hand-wringing about Bracey's height might be somewhat academic, at least for the next two seasons. Yup that's the luxury we have now. Jagan's already stated that he knows that he will have to play point guard at the next level (NBA) so that's where he wants to be. Along with Campbell that locks up all the minutes at point. Now Jagan can also combo a bit at shooting guard with Peak (if he stays) and Kaleb Johnson but Bracey can't do that. So it's essentially a wasted scholarship for two years since Bracey can realistically only play one position. Another combo guard with good measureables would make more sense or using the scholarships on other positions. |
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 12:10:46 GMT -5
Sorry about that - it was simply the top return on my google search and so I went with it. It would appear there is a discrepancy as I have now seen other sites that list him at 5'10". Let's split the difference -- the revised challenge is to think of 5'10" and under successful Big East PGs who led their teams to the NCAAs. I can't think of many off-hand. Sherman Douglas was listed at 6'. Yeah but that was eons ago. And players overall were much shorter. That was an era when you had some of the shooting guard who were 6-2. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 12:12:26 GMT -5
Sorry about that - it was simply the top return on my google search and so I went with it. It would appear there is a discrepancy as I have now seen other sites that list him at 5'10". Let's split the difference -- the revised challenge is to think of 5'10" and under successful Big East PGs who led their teams to the NCAAs. I can't think of many off-hand. Sherman Douglas was listed at 6'. Listed at? So you're saying if Douglas was listed at or actually 5'10 he wouldn't be able to play at this level? That's silly in my view his skill is what made him special not his height... |
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Post by bicentennial on Aug 11, 2015 12:14:49 GMT -5
To quote Lic, are his growth plates open. Kids grow early, grow late and some in between. He has elite skills at his height and does well despite great competition. He's entering his senior year so he could be anywhere from 16-18 this summer. With all his skill if he still has a growth spurt ahead of him he could be a great get!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 12:16:08 GMT -5
Sorry about that - it was simply the top return on my google search and so I went with it. It would appear there is a discrepancy as I have now seen other sites that list him at 5'10". Let's split the difference -- the revised challenge is to think of 5'10" and under successful Big East PGs who led their teams to the NCAAs. I can't think of many off-hand. Sherman Douglas was listed at 6'. Yeah but that was eons ago. And players overall were much shorter. That was an era when you had some of the shooting guard who were 6-2. Utah just beat us with a 5'10 shooting guard (Brandon Taylor) starting playing 30+ minutes. Russ Smith and Bazz didn't play SG for their teams? |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Aug 11, 2015 12:18:18 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard... Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court.. Dude, Shabazz and Kemba are both listed at 6'1". At least give us legit comparisons. Find me a couple 5'9" starting Big East PGs who successfully ran teams that made the NCAA tournament. Andre Barrett? Scottie Reynolds? Bryce Cotton? |
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Aug 11, 2015 12:19:28 GMT -5
Clearly, we need shoes with thicker soles. Problem solved.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 12:22:05 GMT -5
Yeah but that was eons ago. And players overall were much shorter. That was an era when you had some of the shooting guard who were 6-2. Utah just beat us with a 5'10 shooting guard (Brandon Taylor) starting playing 30+ minutes. Russ Smith and Bazz didn't play SG for their teams? That's semantics. You have 6-5 Delon West playing shooting guard/point guard the other spot. So basically Brandon Taylor is the de facto point. I think if you look at the numbers and not the exceptions and outliers you will see that height of the shooting guard has gone up significantly. Michael Jordan basically forced the movement for the big shooting guard because the smaller shooting guards had no chance defending him. |
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 12:24:51 GMT -5
Anyway we have our two points in Tre Cambell and Jagan Mosely. Why get greedy and try to bring in Bracey and have a Noah Dickerson type situation where someone could decommit because there's less playing time at the position that would get him into to the league.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 12:25:33 GMT -5
Utah just beat us with a 5'10 shooting guard (Brandon Taylor) starting playing 30+ minutes. Russ Smith and Bazz didn't play SG for their teams? That's semantics. You have 6-5 Delon West playing shooting guard/point guard the other spot. So basically Brandon Taylor is the de facto point. I think if you look at the numbers and not the exceptions and outliers you will see that height of the shooting guard has gone up significantly. Michael Jordan basically forced the movement for the big shooting guard because the smaller shooting guards had no chance defending him. So basically our situation in a nutshell, no? Smallish guard surround by bigger longer players. Worked fine for them against us What about the other 2 guys who started at SG and are National Champions? Russ is listed at 6'1 in Shoes, Bazz 6'2.. This isn't the NBA so while true relatively insignificant... |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 12:27:24 GMT -5
Dude, Shabazz and Kemba are both listed at 6'1". At least give us legit comparisons. Find me a couple 5'9" starting Big East PGs who successfully ran teams that made the NCAA tournament. Andre Barrett? Scottie Reynolds? Bryce Cotton? Andre Barrett is a great comp. Well done. He was listed at 5'10" and had success in his 2 years at Seton Hall, including an NCAA appearance in 2004. Scottie Reynolds and Bryce Cotton were both listed at 6'1". |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Aug 11, 2015 12:28:39 GMT -5
God Shammgod killed us!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 12:30:19 GMT -5
Andre Barrett? Scottie Reynolds? Bryce Cotton? Andre Barrett is a great comp. Well done. He was listed at 5'10" and had success in his 2 years at Seton Hall, including an NCAA appearance in 2004. Scottie Reynolds and Bryce Cotton were both listed at 6'1". Ranch you're killing me with this "listed at" stuff..haha Cotton Measured 5'11 at the NBA combine.. |
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Post by daymondmyles on Aug 11, 2015 12:30:23 GMT -5
So people were panicking about lack of guards. Then we land one and we can be extra picky?
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