Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 10, 2015 16:10:34 GMT -5
Let me preface this my statement by saying I am huge fan of this kid and think that Bracey would do great things in the Hoyas Blue & Gray uniform but I think he has possibly been given horrible advice but he is far from the only prospect out there to be given bad advice. Bracey for example, considered to be a huge Hoya lean (but no one really knows for certain) and by all reports the staff is still pursuing, set a commitment date for Sept. 9, 2015 back in January. While his reason's and intentions (Mother's BDay I believe) for setting a date 9 months out is honorable, it really doesn't work in the business of high major college basketball recruiting. If he is really leaning towards committing to the Hoyas but is not 100% then he has every right to take his time to make the right decision for himself and his family. But if he already knows where he is going to commit, has known for a while (which setting a date 9 months out may imply) and is really just waiting for his mothers BDay is irresponsible and dangerous to his future and the coaches recruiting him. Let's say Bracey sits tight to his commitment date and wants to join the Hoyas family and then Mosely commits to us tomorrow and Curtis Jones commits Sept. 3 on his visit or DeAndre Hunter visits unofficially and pops in our favor or all 3 commit before Bracey's commitment date. That could leave this kid without a seat at the table because we will be out out of scholarships unless the staff absolutely knows that Copeland or Peak are definitely leaving early. That would put tremendous pressure on which ever sophomore is leaving early knowing that the decision is made before the season has started and could lead to pressure and playing out of character causing poor play and destroying team chemistry. Maybe Mosely commits tomorrow and that speeds up the process for Bracey and he commits shortly after making my earlier point moot. Otherwise Bracey is playing a dangerous game. I truly respect prospects like Copeland, Govan, Campbell, White, Kaleb Johnson, and future Hoya Tyler Foster who all made their decision while on a visit or shortly after visiting. The sad part of this process is that when a prospect comes on a visit like a Tyler Foster, gets an offer while on the visit and then commits a few days later, you here a lot of people start questioning whats wrong with the kid when he does it the right way. But if a kid holds out to the 25th hour but knows pretty much from Day 1 where they are going to go, no one says a thing about whats wrong with the kid. Maybe the kids aren't to blame and its the parents and coaches who get caught up in the hype. In some cases, I'm sure it is but that just makes it this whole process even sadder. Once a prospect knows what they want to do, they need to make their decision. Nowadays a lot of prospects are confused. They truly believe that recruiting process is all about them and don't realize that their decision or non decision effects peoples jobs. Don't get me wrong, I understand that for most high school recruits, this is the most important decision and probably their first major decision of their lives and it should be handled with care. But these kids (I purposely call them kids because their method of how a lot of them make these decisions is extremely immature and naive) are making decisions that effect careers and families. I know coaches are extremely well paid and being fired is par of the course for most coaches but this recruiting process has lost its way. These kids that know where they are going to go and purposely put off their decisions, holding coaches from several schools hostage spending man hours continuing to recruit them when that time could be better applied to other recruits, future classes or current team members. I will give Bracey more credit then other kids because his reason is better then other kids who cut their future schools logo on their head and go on National TV, or have 20 people giving speeches on why this kid is the best thing since the discovery of fire before the prospect sits at table full of hats and begins to play 3 card molly making a spectacle of themselves. I know some of you may think that last part of the description with hats may describes LJ Peak but his circumstances were different in the fact, it wasn't on National TV and he didn't wait until the early or late signing period to make his decision and most importantly YES he picked Georgetown! For those of you who made it to the end of this diatribe, I apologize if you found all this pointless. If you agree or disagree I welcome hearing your thoughts. Not trying to hijack Bracey's thread but it was his recruitment which sparked these thoughts. Meh... I think your thinking way to deeply about this, It's not that serious. The people around him are very good people and no matter where he ends up he will be fine. He's a good kid and he will be successful no matter where he ends up because of his support system not in spite of it... It's not about what we think is best for him or best for Gtown, it's his life, his decision. He can handle it in any manor he wants. Honestly like a lot of your posts but think this one is way off base, just let the process play out. I think what I was trying to say got misconstrued which is easy to understand given the lengthiness of my statement and the fact that I wrote it after 2am. My previous statement was meant to be hypothetical regarding Bracey because I have no insight in his recruiting process or if he has made a decision. I was not attacking Bracey in any way what so ever. I was discussing the recruiting process and stating that when a prospect (and their inner circle) hijacks the process and make it completely about them. I'm not accusing Bracey of this whatsoever as once again I have no insider information. I just used Bracey situation of announcing a date 9 months out as an example to start the conversation. I also stated that IF he knew 7 months or 4 months ago that no matter what he wants to be a Hoya but decided he wants to wait until Sept. 9 (without telling the Hoyas staff anything) it could be dangerous in terms of he could find himself without an opportunity at Georgetown if we have a run of consecutive commitments. Butler last week had 2 commitments on the same day. Florida State had a weekend where they received 3 commitments so its not out of the realm of possibilities. Also IF Seventh Woods was to unofficially visit tomorrow and commit to the Hoyas on the spot. I find it hard to believe the the staff is going to take a listed 6'1" guard in Woods and follow up with taking a commitment from a listed 5'11" guard in Bracey. Maybe they do! A better comparison would be IF Cassius Winston had committed to the Hoyas over the summer to the Hoyas and Bracey knew back in March he wanted to be a Hoya. I really find it hard that the staff would take two PG of similar size & stature. My statement was really meant to make a point of how some high level prospects nowadays can and will hijack the recruiting process for their selfish individual needs and to say to everyone look at me (not accusing Bracey of this). I agree and stated that parents and coaches are very much to blame as much as if not more then the prospect. Now the mothership ESPN is also to blame because they provide the national stage. I know it's a different sport but look at the ridiculous spectacle signing day has become in college football. College Basketball is not as bad as college football primarily because basketball a lot less elite recruits to put on that stage but if you think that some basketball recruits don't hold off making their decision to draw as much attention (locally or nationally) to themselves and holding coaching staffs at several colleges hostage instead of just making a decision in the appropriate time and manner is very naive. |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Aug 10, 2015 20:05:18 GMT -5
This is a highly risky signing, IMHO, if it comes to pass. Not sure how Da Da plays D D in an increasingly 3-point oriented game. He will need to be a special athlete to cover up the size disadvantage. This is not Bracey specific at all, but I'm seriously getting concerned about our lack of guys who can shoot at high percentages. We have DSR, Copeland, and Campbell, but otherwise we don't really have anybody who can shoot the three point shot that well. I do think there's a good chance Peak and White could improve, and Derrickson might shoot well too, but our lack of three point shooting has hurt. Granted, I don't want to be too dependent on threes (because then you can get very streaky depending on how well you're shooting - this happened in the Freeman/Wright/Clark years), but having virtually few guys who can shoot them is also a big problem. You forgot about Mr. Derrickson whom many said was our best shooter during Kenner. Between Marcus, Tre, and Paul we will be fine. And that is assuming that Kaleb or Trey doesn't improve......... |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 10, 2015 22:45:31 GMT -5
I didn't forget about Derrickson - I said "...and Derrickson might shoot well too." As I said, I believe he could definitely be a quality shooter (and by all accounts he is), but we've had other players with similar scouting who haven't lived up to it. I do think Derrickson will, but you never know until the guys get on the court.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 10, 2015 23:42:31 GMT -5
We know Da Da will struggle to guard shooters and to get his own shot off in tight coverage. I believe Chris Wright was listed at 6'1" and he struggled in those areas. Who has been a sub 6' PG for us? Kenny Brunner? Joey Brown? David Edwards? Who has been our tallest PGs? Fred Brown? Bobby Winston? Why will DB struggle to guard shooters? Why use what one previous player (Wright) did as a comparison of what another player will or will not do? CW was not a good defender when he got here (not because of height, but lack of effort) and he was bullish about penetrating. Those are not two traits that apply to all 6' guards. Heck, Austin was always a horrible defender of everything at 6'4". Why are you only picking GU guards? Why limit it to just GU players? |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 9:51:10 GMT -5
Da Da will struggle to guard shooters because he is 5'9", which is really short for college basketball. Take our own team, for example. Bracey would struggle to get a hand in DSR's face when guarding the 3-point line, not to mention Tre, LJ, Copeland, and White.
My point in raising this is that, for the Hoyas to offer a scholarship, the staff must see great stuff (high major+ talent) in other parts of his game necessary to overcome a distinct height disadvantage.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 10:25:46 GMT -5
Da Da will struggle to guard shooters because he is 5'9", which is really short for college basketball. Take our own team, for example. Bracey would struggle to get a hand in DSR's face when guarding the 3-point line, not to mention Tre, LJ, Copeland, and White. My point in raising this is that, for the Hoyas to offer a scholarship, the staff must see great stuff (high major+ talent) in other parts of his game necessary to overcome a distinct height disadvantage. Cmon man there's ways for shorter players to compensate and the kid is not 5'9 anyways... You mentioned earlier that he will struggle with contested jumpers for instance. Why would he be taking contested jumpshots when he's drive and kick player? If defenders play him up he's going to drive past. On defense you just play kids tight and get into their bodies. It's not as big an issue as you make it seem. Plus in a game that's leverage based those kids have to guard hm as well.. |
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 11, 2015 10:38:23 GMT -5
I've seen Day Day play once and funny enough it was against future Hoya Tyler Foster as St. Francis and Gilman were playing. JT3 was there obviously watching Bracey and Rafus they reportedly had already been offered by Georgetown) as well obviously Foster. Tyler was the best player on the court that night as he was highly engaged and in attack mode finishing with a game high 27 that night leading to the upset win for his Gilman squad. What I took away from that night was regarding Dequan's game is that when he wants to, he can get into the paint at will and create for himself and his teammates. That's the dynamic I think JT3 and other coaches see in him. He could develop into a real weapon especially with shot clock finally being lowered to 30 seconds. You put the ball In this kids hands at the end of the shot clock and run pick n rolls and have him attack the paint area. He can become a major problem to stop because he will create positive opportunities out of nowhere for himself and teammates. The kid is ultra shifty and hard to guard going north and south.
If you surround him with elite size and length in the other 4 players (6'6" and above) on the floor with him, then you don't have to worry so much defensively and you can let his quickness be a weapon that makes up for Day Day's overall height.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 10:52:30 GMT -5
All I am saying is that, at 5'9', you have to be really special to make it in the Big East as a productive starting PG. Doesn't happen very often, maybe once every 5-8 years. The Hoyas have never had one.
I'm glad that Foster and Mosely have better size. Brown and Jones have decent size too.
If it were me, I'd lean toward height at the guard positions and be leery of a short PG, especially in this era when offenses are being designed to create 3-point shooing chances.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 11, 2015 10:59:31 GMT -5
I've seen Day Day play once and funny enough it was against future Hoya Tyler Foster as St. Francis and Gilman were playing. JT3 was there obviously watching Bracey and Rafus they reportedly had already been offered by Georgetown) as well obviously Foster. Tyler was the best player on the court that night as he was highly engaged and in attack mode finishing with a game high 27 that night leading to the upset win for his Gilman squad. What I took away from that night was regarding Dequan's game is that when he wants to, he can get into the paint at will and create for himself and his teammates. That's the dynamic I think JT3 and other coaches see in him. He could develop into a real weapon especially with shot clock finally being lowered to 30 seconds. You put the ball In this kids hands at the end of the shot clock and run pick n rolls and have him attack the paint area. He can become a major problem to stop because he will create positive opportunities out of nowhere for himself and teammates. The kid is ultra shifty and hard to guard going north and south. If surround him with elite size and length in the other 4 players (6'6" and above) on the floor with him, then you don't have to worry so much defensively and you can let his quickness be a weapon that makes up for Day Day's overall height. So you're saying Peak, Tre, Mosely & Foster will have a hard time playing with Bracey? If that's the case then I definitely don't think he's a fit @ G'town |
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dense
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Post by dense on Aug 11, 2015 11:06:15 GMT -5
I think this concern over his height is overblown. I think judging by what JT3 is been recruiting, he is concerned with the 30 sec shot clock and not having guys who can't create their own shots or shots for others. I think Bracey he is looking at as a ball handler and floor general who will make sure we got something out of possessions when the offense stagnates. He is making a philosophical decision.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 11:14:26 GMT -5
I've seen Day Day play once and funny enough it was against future Hoya Tyler Foster as St. Francis and Gilman were playing. JT3 was there obviously watching Bracey and Rafus they reportedly had already been offered by Georgetown) as well obviously Foster. Tyler was the best player on the court that night as he was highly engaged and in attack mode finishing with a game high 27 that night leading to the upset win for his Gilman squad. What I took away from that night was regarding Dequan's game is that when he wants to, he can get into the paint at will and create for himself and his teammates. That's the dynamic I think JT3 and other coaches see in him. He could develop into a real weapon especially with shot clock finally being lowered to 30 seconds. You put the ball In this kids hands at the end of the shot clock and run pick n rolls and have him attack the paint area. He can become a major problem to stop because he will create positive opportunities out of nowhere for himself and teammates. The kid is ultra shifty and hard to guard going north and south. If you surround him with elite size and length in the other 4 players (6'6" and above) on the floor with him, then you don't have to worry so much defensively and you can let his quickness be a weapon that makes up for Day Day's overall height. On point... |
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 11, 2015 11:16:29 GMT -5
Da Da will struggle to guard shooters because he is 5'9", which is really short for college basketball. Take our own team, for example. Bracey would struggle to get a hand in DSR's face when guarding the 3-point line, not to mention Tre, LJ, Copeland, and White. My point in raising this is that, for the Hoyas to offer a scholarship, the staff must see great stuff (high major+ talent) in other parts of his game necessary to overcome a distinct height disadvantage. Cmon man there's ways for shorter players to compensate and the kid is not 5'9 anyways... You mentioned earlier that he will struggle with contested jumpers for instance. Why would he be taking contested jumpshots when he's drive and kick player? If defenders play him up he's going to drive past. On defense you just play kids tight and get into their bodies. It's not as big an issue as you make it seem. Plus in a game that's leverage based those kids have to guard hm as well.. I'm going to have to go with Ranch on this one. I've never liked extremely short guys for their position or playing small ball. Contrary to my philosophy. Some programs make it work. UConn for example with their short point guards (Boatwright, Khalid El Amin) or Arizona when they had Damon Stoudemaire. But in general it puts you at an automatic disadvantage so the points skills have to be elite. I do think lack of length/height is a big issue. Whittington was valuable exactly because of his great length in being able to guard shooting guards. Length and height are a big factor on defense as well as getting good looks on offense. You would have to have Mugsey Bogues type muscularity, quickness, motor and lightning hands if you are going to body up on people. And even with Bogues, as good as he was he was often a liability, more so at the pro level. If the goal is to win the national championship, then somewhere along the line when you are trying to win 6 games, that shortcoming faces a severe mismatch that derails those championship aspirations. It also can starts a trickle effect. Right now we have Jagan Mosely penciled in as huge point guard (6-3, 6-9 wingspan) along with Tre Campbell. Bring in Bracey and then Jagan is forced to shooting guard where he's slightly undersized. So now you have two positions that are undersized. It's just not the way I would go about building a team for those reasons. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 11:21:30 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard...
Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court..
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Post by johnnysnowplow on Aug 11, 2015 11:29:44 GMT -5
Having an undersized team is a problem. Having one undersized player is not a problem.
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 11:31:38 GMT -5
Just to be clear, Boatwright is 6'2". El-amin was 5'10". Stoudemaire was 5'10". All taller than Day Day.
Two guys I thought of as undersized, but successful UNC PGs were Ed Cota and Ray Felton, 6' and 6'1", respectively.
The lack of height makes it tough to excel in college. But maybe Da Da is amazing in other facets of the game. But if so, why the lack of high ranking?
Call me Larry...her, I mean, leery...
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 11:34:04 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard... Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court.. Dude, Shabazz and Kemba are both listed at 6'1". At least give us legit comparisons. Find me a couple 5'9" starting Big East PGs who successfully ran teams that made the NCAA tournament. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 11:39:19 GMT -5
Just to be clear, Boatwright is 6'2". El-amin was 5'10". Stoudemaire was 5'10". All taller than Day Day. Two guys I thought of as undersized, but successful UNC PGs were Ed Cota and Ray Felton, 6' and 6'1", respectively. The lack of height makes it tough to excel in college. But maybe Da Da is amazing in other facets of the game. But if so, why the lack of high ranking? Call me Larry...her, I mean, leery... Boatright measured 5'11 in shoes at the NBA Camp... www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ryan-Boatright-6269/So yeah Bazz and Boat 2 6'0 and below guards who just won a Championship. Beat a Kentucky team full of Giants. Being able to create on the court is more important than height at the collegiate level. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 11:42:08 GMT -5
Louisville and Uconn both won Chips with 2 guards starting 6ft or below literally 2 and 3 years ago..SG and PG You guys you... Duke started 2 generously listed 6'2 players at guard... Being able to create for others and yourself is more important than height on the court.. Dude, Shabazz and Kemba are both listed at 6'1". At least give us legit comparisons. Find me a couple 5'9" starting Big East PGs who successfully ran teams that made the NCAA tournament. "Listed at?" LOL...I took their listed measurements from the NBA Draft Combine, so they're official. I was talking about the Bazz/Boatright backcourt but Thx for bringing up Kemba and Bazz backcourt though that further proves my point.... Btw Day Day is "listed at 5'11".... Kind of funny you would accept their measurements but routinely list Day Day below his "Listed height".... Interesting stuff |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Aug 11, 2015 11:45:49 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2015 11:51:44 GMT -5
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