Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 8, 2015 0:19:25 GMT -5
Glad he's playing well enough to make this debate occur especially since 99% of the board had him coming off the bench and playing maybe 10-20 min a game... My feeling is just enjoy it. Haha....how soon they forget! ✅em
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:27:03 GMT -5
But some dude at home on his couch, in the time it takes to order and receive delivery Chinese food, can see part of one game against a crap team and make an assessment of a player or pass an indictment on the staff that sees the guy every single day in practice against solid competition and chooses to give him the minutes they choose to give him. A staff, mind you, that are paid well to coach and evaluate talent for a living because, presumably, they sort of know what they're doing. This is the Magic Wand Theory. Although not used at all (or barely) throughout both seasons, JT3 was forced to play Bradley in two of GU's most important games of the season in his sophomore (against FSU in the NIT) and his junior year, and magically he played well, yet the rest of those seasons he sucked enough in practice that the coaching staff didn't use him in games throughout both seasons. Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:29:48 GMT -5
Good point. And, for his size, he moves well. Even today, Big Roy looks a bit clunky running down the court as do many guys his size. Bradley looks like a kid that was an athletic, coordinated kid that just shot up in height in HS and took a while to adjust. He's not a great leaper but he's a decent athlete. Add to that the fact that he's sort of doing a Reggie where he's learning where to be and what to do and it is helping him to worry less and to just play. At least that's the way it seems to me. I'm hoping that he goes out on a huge high note in his final season. The funny thing is, you can't really "win" this discussion. If he came along quicker and became a great player, he'd have left for a professional league in all likelihood. If he comes along too slowly, the coaching staff sucks and doesn't develop players or doesn't give guys enough time. If he got a bunch of time and he wasn't ready for the prime time, the coaches can't recruit well enough or didn't do enough to develop him. But some dude at home on his couch, in the time it takes to order and receive delivery Chinese food, can see part of one game against a crap team and make an assessment of a player or pass an indictment on the staff that sees the guy every single day in practice against solid competition and chooses to give him the minutes they choose to give him. A staff, mind you, that are paid well to coach and evaluate talent for a living because, presumably, they sort of know what they're doing. Also, what's often overlooked is he's simply a much bigger and stronger guy than even last years tournament game against Eastern Washington. Last year he was listed at 250 lbs and this year Georgetown has him listed at 275 lbs. He simply can't be pushed around like in the past and he can overpower people at 275 lbs. That's dedication in the weight room along with the development of his hook shot (which also wasn't there last year). Excellent point. Especially in his lower half even though he's been spotted flexing the upper half.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:32:34 GMT -5
This is the Magic Wand Theory. Although not used at all (or barely) throughout both seasons, JT3 was forced to play Bradley in two of GU's most important games of the season in his sophomore (against FSU in the NIT) and his junior year, and magically he played well, yet the rest of those seasons he sucked enough in practice that the coaching staff didn't use him in games throughout both seasons. Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. And, just for clarification, none of those opposing teams were any good. And an FSU game in the NIT doesn't qualify as "important" to anyone. It more qualifies as a "why not?" game.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:34:00 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. tas, I think you'll at least agree with me that getting him 5 mins per game would not have hurt when the pt competition was HopSmith. Btw, the Moo shu was terrific!
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dense
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B. Hayes
Dec 8, 2015 0:37:48 GMT -5
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Post by dense on Dec 8, 2015 0:37:48 GMT -5
Unless someone here has a time machine there's nothing that can be done about his minutes from yesteryear. Let's move on shall we? My question is can be continue to improve and develop into a player on the NBA radar? If prime Shaq were in the league yes, because you would need big bodies. I dunno hard to say because the league is moving to small ball at the center position and kind of those Euro 3pt guys like Porzingius. I guess you still have guys like the Lopez brothers and Asik. Hayes is your traditional big man but league has been moving away from that for quite some time now. His defense would have to improve. He doesn't block shots and I'm not sure if it's because he does or does not have elite wingspan (even Gortat has a 7-6 wingspan) or because he's still working on that part of his game. Then you need at least a mid range game like Asik or Gortat. He's shown a work ethic and dedication so you can't rule it out. Even getting a Brian Zoubec like NCAA run, I would take that but Zoubec never made the NBA and opened a candy store in New Jersey. Henry Sims who was probably more defensively advanced and could drive to the basket made it with the 76ers but now is out of the league. It's hard to say. I would just enjoy his development at this level now and worry about that stuff later. Porzingus is a whole nother category. There arent many 7'3 Dirk like player who can jump as well. I think B is definitely someone who a team might want to stash in the nbdl and see what happens.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:41:01 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. tas, I think you'll at least agree with me that getting him 5 mins per game would not have hurt when the pt competition was HopSmith. Btw, the Moo shu was terrific! pr, I'll agree with you that we're both excited about what he's doing right now. As for minutes per game? I'll leave that to the coaches. It's what they're good at. Reggie is great so far this year. Who is wondering why he didn't get more time last year? He was bad. No way to sugarcoat it. He figured it out. He had some good performances freshman year and then looked lost. Like Reggie, Bradley got in great shape and figured out the O and D this year. Kudos to both dudes. It doesn't mean anyone owed them more minutes prior to the respective revelations. Give it a month or two and we'll have the same "argument" over Trey. All I mean to say is that I know nothing and most of us know nothing and, in the absence of any knowledge, I'll take a bright dude like JT3 and his entire staff over our speculations. I couldn't be happier for Bradley. Should he have gotten more time? Maybe. If he did, however, there is certainly an argument to be made that he wouldn't have worked as hard as he did to get where he is right now where he can't be denied time.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:46:04 GMT -5
This is the Magic Wand Theory. Although not used at all (or barely) throughout both seasons, JT3 was forced to play Bradley in two of GU's most important games of the season in his sophomore (against FSU in the NIT) and his junior year, and magically he played well, yet the rest of those seasons he sucked enough in practice that the coaching staff didn't use him in games throughout both seasons. Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. Not only that but the staff probably watch him at least 3 hours a day, say roughly at least 200 days a year. So that's 600 hours a year x 3 years. 1200 hours of watching Hayes. So they might just have a little bit more data then all of us Chinese food eating couch potatoes. *except for me, I can watch someone for 10 minutes between dipping dumplings in sweet and sour sauce and tell if a player is good or not like with Jeremiah Rivers. And they had Othella Harrington who played in the NBA for 17 years as a big man watching him for 1200 hours. You would think he would have given some input and lobbied on playing Hayes, if Hayes was this juggernaut in practice.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:48:30 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. tas, I think you'll at least agree with me that getting him 5 mins per game would not have hurt when the pt competition was HopSmith. Btw, the Moo shu was terrific! There's a part of it too where I feel like it's a near certainty that Bradley feels like he probably should have been given more minutes but wasn't. And it takes something away a bit to talk about that than to talk about what he's doing right now. We can talk about the past in the future when the present is gone. What he's currently doing should be the focus and we can discuss the machinations and differences of opinions after the fact. We have nothing but time for that. April will be here soon. For now, let's recognize the jump he's made and talk about him putting up back to back double doubles. I know we're all Hoyas and we're used to cynicism and being negative and trying to be smarter than the next person but damn. This should be fun. When a kid is having a breakout year, it's not about who was right and wrong. It's about the dude is having big games and it's fun to watch. We can talk about the legacy when he graduates.
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:49:21 GMT -5
If prime Shaq were in the league yes, because you would need big bodies. I dunno hard to say because the league is moving to small ball at the center position and kind of those Euro 3pt guys like Porzingius. I guess you still have guys like the Lopez brothers and Asik. Hayes is your traditional big man but league has been moving away from that for quite some time now. His defense would have to improve. He doesn't block shots and I'm not sure if it's because he does or does not have elite wingspan (even Gortat has a 7-6 wingspan) or because he's still working on that part of his game. Then you need at least a mid range game like Asik or Gortat. He's shown a work ethic and dedication so you can't rule it out. Even getting a Brian Zoubec like NCAA run, I would take that but Zoubec never made the NBA and opened a candy store in New Jersey. Henry Sims who was probably more defensively advanced and could drive to the basket made it with the 76ers but now is out of the league. It's hard to say. I would just enjoy his development at this level now and worry about that stuff later. Porzingus is a whole nother category. There arent many 7'3 Dirk like player who can jump as well. I think B is definitely someone who a team might want to stash in the nbdl and see what happens. Oh, he can make the NBDL right now. Bowen's in the NBDL as is Whit, Trawick, etc, etc. But having a full year contract in the NBA (not a 10 day contract) is a whole nother ball game. Right now who would you compare Hayes to in the NBA? Most of the traditional offense big men are at least shot blockers/defenders on the defensive end (Gortat, Asik, Roy, Lopez brothers, Drummond, Marc Gasol)
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Post by professorhoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:52:32 GMT -5
tas, I think you'll at least agree with me that getting him 5 mins per game would not have hurt when the pt competition was HopSmith. Btw, the Moo shu was terrific! There's a part of it too where I feel like it's a near certainty that Bradley feels like he probably should have been given more minutes but didn't. And it takes something away a bit to talk about that than to talk about what he's doing. We can talk about the past in future when the present is gone. What he's currently doing should be the focus and we can discuss the machinations and differences of opinions after the fact. We have nothing but time for that. April will be here soon. For now, let's recognize the jump he's made and talk about him putting up back to back double doubles. I know we're all Hoyas and we're used to cynicism and being negative and trying to be smarter than the next person but damn. This should be fun. When a kid is having a breakout year, it's not about who was right and wrong. It's about the dude is having big games and it's fun to watch. We can talk about the legacy when he graduates. The thing is if BJ (and it is BJ for those supposed diehard big Hayes fans on here. Not sure how they could not know that). was this juggernaut who was being denied playing time he simply would have left/transferred. I'm sure it crossed his mind but guess what, he didn't. He stayed here, stuck with the process, the program, the staff and here we are. It's really a win win for BJ and the staff. Yet some people are trying to turn it into BJ against the staff.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Dec 8, 2015 0:57:43 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. Not only that but the staff probably watch him at least 3 hours a day, say roughly at least 200 days a year. So that's 600 hours a year x 3 years. 1200 hours of watching Hayes. So they might just have a little bit more data then all of us Chinese food eating couch potatoes. *except for me, I can watch someone for 10 minutes between dipping dumplings in sweet and sour sauce and tell if a player is good or not like with Jeremiah Rivers. And they had Othella Harrington who played in the NBA for 17 years as a big man watching him for 1200 hours. You would think he would have given some input and lobbied on playing Hayes, if Hayes was this juggernaut in practice. I'll never forget seeing Othella in the caf a few times a week and wondering how he could be so humble and "normal" considering who he was on campus. Same went for Alonzo and AI. I imagine that's even more rare in the era of social media now but it was pretty damn rare then too. Those guys were superstars. And couldn't have been nicer or more normal for however you define it at that age.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Dec 8, 2015 1:13:09 GMT -5
I'm happy for the success B. Hayes is having. I hope his senior year only continues to improve. Bradley has already had a better career in these 8 games then Joshua Smith had in his year and half at Georgetown and Hopkins had in his 4 years on the Hilltop. No disrespect to Hopkins because I really believe he gave Georgetown all he had. Never questioned his effort. The funny thing about Bradley's game is that you can tell he is still very raw with a lot of upside. I under stand JT3 getting Joshua Smith to transfer to Georgetown because he has 1000% more natural talent then Hayes but that thing in Smith chest beats about as fast as he gets up and down the court, where Hayes has so much more Heart and desire that he makes up for his raw abilities with energy and effort. I don't want this to come off as if I'm slamming Smith because I'm not, but let's face it Smith never came close to reaching what should have been dominating physical and skill potential. I wonder deep down if JT3 regrets recruiting Smith since it possibly/probably stunted Hayes overall development? Another question for anyone in the know, why doesn't JT3 redshirt freshman that he knows aren't going to get anytime minutes except for a few mop up duties. Imagine if Hayes had another year of eligibility? By the way I will be asking this question again when Trey is having a monster senior year!
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on Dec 8, 2015 3:27:46 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. Not only that but the staff probably watch him at least 3 hours a day, say roughly at least 200 days a year. So that's 600 hours a year x 3 years. 1200 hours of watching Hayes. So they might just have a little bit more data then all of us Chinese food eating couch potatoes. *except for me, I can watch someone for 10 minutes between dipping dumplings in sweet and sour sauce and tell if a player is good or not like with Jeremiah Rivers. And they had Othella Harrington who played in the NBA for 17 years as a big man watching him for 1200 hours. You would think he would have given some input and lobbied on playing Hayes, if Hayes was this juggernaut in practice. So you are saying that because the staffs have more knowledge in basketball than us, they are always right? I mean they have watched more hours of Bradley Hayes than any of us has or will, so their judgement is perfect? That's like saying Jim Boehim is a better coach than Brad Stevens because he has been coaching longer in college Bball and has more experience in coaching/evaluating players. Best argument ever. I like.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 8:09:23 GMT -5
Also, what's often overlooked is he's simply a much bigger and stronger guy than even last years tournament game against Eastern Washington. Last year he was listed at 250 lbs and this year Georgetown has him listed at 275 lbs. He simply can't be pushed around like in the past and he can overpower people at 275 lbs. That's dedication in the weight room along with the development of his hook shot (which also wasn't there last year). It's great to see/hear about a Hoya taking his physical transformation seriously while at college and its results, compared to some past players. We should see more of this with the new athletic center. About his hook shot, he only shot 11 times last year, so we frankly don't know if it was or wasn't there last year. But, yes, he's admitted to working hard on all aspects of his game.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 8:16:10 GMT -5
Unless someone here has a time machine there's nothing that can be done about his minutes from yesteryear. Let's move on shall we? My question is can be continue to improve and develop into a player on the NBA radar? If prime Shaq were in the league yes, because you would need big bodies. I dunno hard to say because the league is moving to small ball at the center position and kind of those Euro 3pt guys like Porzingius. I guess you still have guys like the Lopez brothers and Asik. Hayes is your traditional big man but league has been moving away from that for quite some time now. His defense would have to improve. He doesn't block shots and I'm not sure if it's because he does or does not have elite wingspan (even Gortat has a 7-6 wingspan) or because he's still working on that part of his game. Then you need at least a mid range game like Asik or Gortat. He's shown a work ethic and dedication so you can't rule it out. Even getting a Brian Zoubec like NCAA run, I would take that but Zoubec never made the NBA and opened a candy store in New Jersey. Henry Sims who was probably more defensively advanced and could drive to the basket made it with the 76ers but now is out of the league. It's hard to say. I would just enjoy his development at this level now and worry about that stuff later. If Bradley keeps up his offensive numbers throughout the season, and tightens up the defense, he'll make the BE selection team at the end of the season. That's completely different from "Zoubek Time". A GU Big with an elite offensive weapon will have a multi-year NBA career.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 8:36:50 GMT -5
This is the Magic Wand Theory. Although not used at all (or barely) throughout both seasons, JT3 was forced to play Bradley in two of GU's most important games of the season in his sophomore (against FSU in the NIT) and his junior year, and magically he played well, yet the rest of those seasons he sucked enough in practice that the coaching staff didn't use him in games throughout both seasons. Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. To be clear, I never said to start him over HopSmith. Instead, at minimum, he could have prevented HopSmith from getting into their usual foul troubles. I don't believe that 5 minutes, garbage time not included, would have hurt the team. The worst of it is that Lubick and Caprio were used ahead of him. The only proof that matters is the times that he played in real games. I can say that I've seen 95% of the televised (or thru Internet) games, which nowadays is almost 100% of the games. He never embarrassed himself or the team.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 8:55:33 GMT -5
Actually, this is the the coaching staff watches him play and you don't theory but, inexplicably, you somehow know better. I'm not saying you're wrong You could be right. I could be right too. Neither of us could ever prove it, however. But there is an entire staff that does this stuff for a living that thought the best option was to sit him. Considering the fact that you have no better information than I do, I'll side with the people that do have better information and get paid to make such decisions based on their ability to do so. And, just for clarification, none of those opposing teams were any good. And an FSU game in the NIT doesn't qualify as "important" to anyone. It more qualifies as a "why not?" game. The two games I was refering to were the end-of-the-season tournament (NCAA or NIT) win-or-go-home games. If you don't think those are important, then we'll never agree on this.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Dec 8, 2015 9:10:48 GMT -5
If coaches were all knowing and their decisions can never be questioned, then Craig Esherick would still be coaching the Hoyas.. Coach Esherick was with the program in one form or fashion for 30 years. Coach Esherick has seen more basketball than some posters have been alive. He saw the team play all the time via games and practice, he knew what was best. Why even question Coach Esherick? One could even argue that he recruited Roy and Jeff and if he had 1 more year the program would have been back to elite status with 2 NBA level players in the program.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 8, 2015 9:13:17 GMT -5
pr, I'll agree with you that we're both excited about what he's doing right now. As for minutes per game? I'll leave that to the coaches. It's what they're good at. Reggie is great so far this year. Who is wondering why he didn't get more time last year? He was bad. No way to sugarcoat it. He figured it out. He had some good performances freshman year and then looked lost. Like Reggie, Bradley got in great shape and figured out the O and D this year. Kudos to both dudes. It doesn't mean anyone owed them more minutes prior to the respective revelations. Give it a month or two and we'll have the same "argument" over Trey. All I mean to say is that I know nothing and most of us know nothing and, in the absence of any knowledge... Reggie is a good example of getting close to 5 minutes to see what he could do or help with foul trouble. Five mpg for Bradley could have revealed a lot for the staff, Bradley and all. That's all I'm saying. I already started the Play Trey! If that jumper starts to fall, watch out. Btw, I here he's automatic during game warm-ups.
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