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Post by Admin on Oct 11, 2013 22:43:29 GMT -5
Post comments here.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,866
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Post by thebin on Oct 12, 2013 12:45:55 GMT -5
Prediction?
Pain.
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 12, 2013 14:01:57 GMT -5
The Fordham QB is 28-30 now. Come on guys.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,672
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Oct 12, 2013 15:09:23 GMT -5
I guess the final score did not reflect how badly the Hoyas were beaten, 34-12.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Oct 12, 2013 18:12:15 GMT -5
Horrible! GU Athletics has to step up.
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cheer48
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 12, 2013 18:23:49 GMT -5
Given what Fordham has done this year. with a lot of scholarship players. I think the final score reflects a hell of a good effort by our Hoyas......stats be damned, I thought that it was very possible that we could have been beaten 60-0 or worse....great job Hoyas !!!!!
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 12, 2013 18:28:18 GMT -5
Given what Fordham has done this year. with a lot of scholarship players. I think the final score reflects a hell of a good effort by our Hoyas......stats be damned, I thought that it was very possible that we could have been beaten 60-0 or worse....great job Hoyas !!!!! We're actually happy with this? The rest of the Patriot League is going to have that many scholarship players soon. Hopefully Kempf will be back or we're in trouble. Bucknell or bust.
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CAHoya07
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Post by CAHoya07 on Oct 13, 2013 2:25:41 GMT -5
Yawn.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 13, 2013 10:22:15 GMT -5
The Patriot League's move to scholarship teams is a huge problem for our program because it means that structurally we will be unable to compete. Our team has struggled enough in the past, and now it will get only worse.
It really makes one question the viability of the program as a whole. The team doesn't have a place to play their games, they are outgunned by their own division, and the interest level among students and alumni is pretty low. I don't know the finances of the football team but if its not in the black (it certainly would not be if Georgetown offered scholarships), then I am not sure how much value to program really has for our university.
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cheer48
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 180
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 14, 2013 9:25:37 GMT -5
Football is a great game......I completely agree that there are problems but surely, if the administration is not going to grant scholarships, there must be in the nearby eastern middle atlantic area a dozen decent institutions in a position similar to ours with whom we could agree even informally to compete......is there nobody out there with sufficient imagination to put together a plan?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 14, 2013 9:30:12 GMT -5
The Patriot League's move to scholarship teams is a huge problem for our program because it means that structurally we will be unable to compete. Our team has struggled enough in the past, and now it will get only worse. It really makes one question the viability of the program as a whole. The team doesn't have a place to play their games, they are outgunned by their own division, and the interest level among students and alumni is pretty low. I don't know the finances of the football team but if its not in the black (it certainly would not be if Georgetown offered scholarships), then I am not sure how much value to program really has for our university. With all due respect, this is an deeply flawed argument. How does one define program viability? Is it by a winning record? by that definition, men's lacrosse was not a viable program in that it failed to achieve a winning record for its first 24 years, yet Georgetown stayed with them. How about baseball? it has not posted a winning record since 1986. Is viability then about facilities? The MSF is at the bottom of the Division rung but it is a place to play. Baseball and softball play in city parks, field hockey rents time at Maryland and tennis is about to get the boot. By the time the IAC begins construction, just 7 of 29 sports will be playing on campus, yet where are the GUSA proclamations or the HOYA editorials on this? No student or alumnus under the age of 40 has likely ever seen the track team in a meet because they lost Kehoe Field in the mid-90's. But it's not like football is playing at Washington & Lee High School or something. Could the MSF experience be better? Absolutely! If there was a facility where alumni could attend and be comfortable in (as opposed to what there is now) the attendance would grow overnight. Not everyone wants to drive their family an hour into campus and stand in line at portable toilets and sit on temporary bleachers meant for three months during the 2005 season. Recruits see this, too. Would you rather see your son run through the tunnel at Franklin Field or the Yale Bowl... or have someone explain why McShain Lounge is where the team has to gather on gameday. Is viability merely about student interest? Outside of men's basketball, would we care to guess how many students or alumni care about, in no particular order, baseball, track, field hockey, golf, tennis, softball, etc.? One of Georgetown's strategic misstteps in athletics is by devoting too much time, interest, and in some cases money, to men's basketball at the exclusion of other sports--obviously, this is not an opinion shared by many, but I contend GU puts too many of its eggs in one basket, no pun intended. As a result, many sports, not just football, fail to gain representative student, alumni, or local interest--soccer is nationally ranked and is drawing 289 people a game, a shamefully low number for a campus of this size. Yet, home football games outdraw every other sport held on campus, every one--nearly twice that of a fully funded men's lacrosse program and almost three times that of women's basketball, which did not manage more than 710 a game last season. So where is the student interest for these other teams? Are they not viable? Athletic teams are not structured to make money, anymore than we could argue that the theology major program isn't viable because it's not as popular and doesn't bring in money like the business majors do. If Georgetown only saw teams that break even as viable, this school would have just one intercollegiate sport and that would not be a tenable situation. More than most, football brings the level of financial support which gives some level of institutional comfort for what is currently spent, but if GU wants to achieve more than a one or two win season ad infinitum, both sides (alumni and University) have to come to some sort of consensus on a new financial model that will balance competition with commitment. And that doesn't have to be within the PL--unlike the Big East commitmemts, it has choices in football, such as the NEC or simply playing as an independent with 5 or 6 Ivy games a year and a mix of PL, Howard, and Davidson to fill out the slate. The other Patriot League schools are willing to invest $5-6 million annually on football and assume the expenses therein, albeit to draw 4,000 a game and get one body-bag game a year with Temple or UConn to keep the alumni interested. Georgetown, to some degree, fairly considers this a poor use of capital in a 29 sport department where 21 of the 29 are not fully funded. Jack Hagerty was once able to coach major college football at GU with just 20 scholarships when some of his opponents had upwards of 100. If 60 football scholarships won't fly at Georgetown, zero won't either, and there has to be a number reached that fits the tenor of the times. And that's a viable argument.
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cheer48
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 14, 2013 9:50:26 GMT -5
great discussion brothers ! We need to get off the dime. give the athletic department a firm shove and develop something new and reasonable......football should not simply be dropped because we have not imagination enough to develop a program that does not make either martyrs or gorillas of our athletes. For the love of a game of football for all, the athlete, the student and the alumni !!.... For the love of Pete,if, a bunch of kids can put together a team and find completion in the next neighborhood, it can`t be impossible for college students to do the same or better !
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 14, 2013 11:57:01 GMT -5
I think the only remotely viable option without scholarships is an independent schedule with as many Ivy games as we can get.
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cheer48
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 14, 2013 12:01:11 GMT -5
Good idea ole doggie....could throw in a couple of less aggressive patriot league teams
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 14, 2013 12:34:37 GMT -5
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cheer48
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 14, 2013 13:19:59 GMT -5
DFW, does option #5 have a prayer?
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 14, 2013 13:43:12 GMT -5
Maybe, but not soon. It would take years of negotiation and schedule clearance, and it's not clear whether all of the Ivy schools see this as a pressing matter. The Ivy won a majority of its games with the PL this season so the competitive imbalance with scholarships is still a few years removed for these schools.
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cheer48
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by cheer48 on Oct 14, 2013 14:19:30 GMT -5
thanks for you insights.....in the meantime unfortunately we are going to be mince meat,,,,,
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Oct 14, 2013 16:01:01 GMT -5
Very good post, DFW Is viability then about facilities? The MSF is at the bottom of the Division rung but it is a place to play. Baseball and softball play in city parks, field hockey rents time at Maryland and tennis is about to get the boot. By the time the IAC begins construction, just 7 of 29 sports will be playing on campus, yet where are the GUSA proclamations or the HOYA editorials on this? No student or alumnus under the age of 40 has likely ever seen the track team in a meet because they lost Kehoe Field in the mid-90's. But it's not like football is playing at Washington & Lee High School or something. If only the University had had the opportunity to purchase a conveniently located space where it could've build athletic facilities to house its teams... *beats head against desk* The other Patriot League schools are willing to invest $5-6 million annually on football and assume the expenses therein, albeit to draw 4,000 a game and get one body-bag game a year with Temple or UConn to keep the alumni interested. Georgetown, to some degree, fairly considers this a poor use of capital in a 29 sport department where 21 of the 29 are not fully funded. For the record, what are the 8 that are? Men's and women's basketball, men's and women's lacrosse, men's and women's soccer (I think), and...?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Oct 14, 2013 23:36:52 GMT -5
Very good post, DFW Is viability then about facilities? The MSF is at the bottom of the Division rung but it is a place to play. Baseball and softball play in city parks, field hockey rents time at Maryland and tennis is about to get the boot. By the time the IAC begins construction, just 7 of 29 sports will be playing on campus, yet where are the GUSA proclamations or the HOYA editorials on this? No student or alumnus under the age of 40 has likely ever seen the track team in a meet because they lost Kehoe Field in the mid-90's. But it's not like football is playing at Washington & Lee High School or something. If only the University had had the opportunity to purchase a conveniently located space where it could've build athletic facilities to house its teams... *beats head against desk* The other Patriot League schools are willing to invest $5-6 million annually on football and assume the expenses therein, albeit to draw 4,000 a game and get one body-bag game a year with Temple or UConn to keep the alumni interested. Georgetown, to some degree, fairly considers this a poor use of capital in a 29 sport department where 21 of the 29 are not fully funded. For the record, what are the 8 that are? Men's and women's basketball, men's and women's lacrosse, men's and women's soccer (I think), and...? Volleyball? It's the only team I could think of without an opposite gender counterpart, since that would add two fully funded teams.
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