Joshua Smith Discussion

[kghoya]

It's cool that we finally have an official word but was there anybody out there that actually thought we would see Joshua Smith after he missed that first game in Providence?

[This Just In]

Jan 25, 2014 2:59:47 GMT -5 kghoya said:

It's cool that we finally have an official word but was there anybody out there that actually thought we would see Joshua Smith after he missed that first game in Providence?

Have u been reading the previous pages or other threads???  

Plenty of people believed Josh Smith would be back again this year...it is in writing, just go look for yourself.

[Problem of Dog]

Jan 25, 2014 2:59:47 GMT -5 kghoya said:

It's cool that we finally have an official word but was there anybody out there that actually thought we would see Joshua Smith after he missed that first game in Providence?

LOL @ the people who somehow believed this was simply a matter of making up work.

[swhoya]

Jan 25, 2014 9:15:26 GMT -5 This Just In said:

Jan 25, 2014 2:59:47 GMT -5 kghoya said:

It's cool that we finally have an official word but was there anybody out there that actually thought we would see Joshua Smith after he missed that first game in Providence?

Have u been reading the previous pages or other threads???  

Plenty of people believed Josh Smith would be back again this year...it is in writing, just go look for yourself.

Ah...the inevitable Hoyatalk dance of insecurity. Every time there's an issue on which some people are proven right and some wrong...the ones that were right have to keep mocking those that were wrong and act like only an idiot could have thought anything different.

[seaweed]

Except usually the 'right' people had also earlier been wrong, the wrong people had earlier been right and it's all III's fault anyway.

123facilities

[HoyaFanNY]

with smith, III swung for the fences and ended up striking out. can't blame him for thinking he could turn the kid around. i say cut ties after the season and use the scholarship on another big, maybe a certain hoyas legend son..........

[OldHoyafan]

I remember saying to myself when I first saw Smith with a Hoya uniform on, "wow he looks to be the same size from the UCLA game last year". I tried to convince myself as the year went on that my eyes were getting older and that he really had lost weight despite the lack of lateral movement and ability to jump for rebounds. The reality is that the young man given his situation last year and the fact that III was giving him another great shot at reaching his goal of becoming a high NBA draft pick, did not take advantage of the opportunities given. He did not do what Hibbert did over a summer and lose the necessary weight to play on both ends of the court and now we know he did not do the work in the class room necessary to keep him on the team. III at some point last year realized that what he had coming back for this year at the center position(Moses, Hopkins, Bradley) would not provide the inside scoring threat that would allow his offense to take advantage of his perimeter shooters(Markel,DSR, Cameron) so he had to look elsewhere to find someone like a Vaughn. The situation with Smith arose and III took a chance that he could help his team while throwing this young man a life line at the same time. The NCAA helped out and gave the young man a full two years of remaining eligibility. Again though, as my old eyes saw at the beginning of the season, the young man had not put in the necessary work in the gym and on the track to get him physically in shape to reward III for this second chance. Now we know he did not also put in the necessary work in the dorm or the library to stay eligible to play at Georgetown. I do not want to sound sanctimonious, because I have failed college courses during my tenure in college and I have never had to get in shape to play ball at the Division 1 college level, but I have failed and was given a second chance. III is on the record now saying that if academically Smith is ready to rejoin the team, he will be welcomed back. However, I don't think he really believes ,given Smith's track record, that that is a viable possibility. As I have said before now may be the time to give a serious look at the JUCO circuit if no top 100 center will be here next year.

[TC]

Jan 24, 2014 23:28:20 GMT -5 vanman said:

Academic problems don't just show up one day. They show up early enough to be addressed in a timely fashion.

That's a load of BS. All it takes is one flunking paper, or as rumored in George Butler's case, one case of plagiarism to knock someone out of eligibility. Most college classes only have a few deliverables - it's not like high school where you sometimes have daily quizzes and you can figure out within a week if someone is doing the work. Blow one of the few deliverables, and that can be a death blow that turns a mediocre grade into a failing one.

I also don't understand the objection to Josh practicing. Practice? Practice? We talking about practice? It's not like you get any glory out of practicing in a gym where the cracks in the doors are taped shut. Practice without game pressure might be the thing that actually gets him back on track and into shape.

[drquigley]

I agree with oldhoyafan that it is time to cut Smith loose. He had ample opportunity to get his act together and didn't. We need to start recruiting and we can't do that effectively if we aren't sure whether Smith will be back. To be honest though I expect him to "self deport" like Whittington.

[This Just In]

Jan 25, 2014 9:30:16 GMT -5 swhoya said:

Jan 25, 2014 9:15:26 GMT -5 This Just In said:

Have u been reading the previous pages or other threads???  

Plenty of people believed Josh Smith would be back again this year...it is in writing, just go look for yourself.

Ah...the inevitable Hoyatalk dance of insecurity. Every time there's an issue on which some people are proven right and some wrong...the ones that were right have to keep mocking those that were wrong and act like only an idiot could have thought anything different.

The the poster stated...no one really thought Josh Smith was coming back....

I pointed out that a lot that people thought Smith was coming back this year...and may look at past post or threads as proof.

How is that mocking??

[prhoya]

Jan 25, 2014 10:02:19 GMT -5 HoyaFanNY said:

with smith, III swung for the fences and ended up striking out. can't blame him for thinking he could turn the kid around. i say cut ties after the season and use the scholarship on another big, maybe a certain hoyas legend son..........

The path is clearing for that certain hoyas legend son.

[drquigley]

Sorry but I'm not up on recruiting. Who is the hoya legends son?

[This Just In]

Jan 25, 2014 11:33:41 GMT -5 drquigley said:

Sorry but I'm not up on recruiting. Who is the hoya legends son?

Alonzo Mourning's son...

Trey Mouring

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 25, 2014 11:15:28 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I agree with oldhoyafan that it is time to cut Smith loose. He had ample opportunity to get his act together and didn't. We need to start recruiting and we can't do that effectively if we aren't sure whether Smith will be back. To be honest though I expect him to "self deport" like Whittington.

I find it interesting that a bunch of people argued in another thread that Georgetown wasn't doing enough to support the players academically, yet now a whole bunch of people advocate throwing him off the team because of the problem. I don't see why everybody is being so negative on Smith, especially considering Whittington didn't get nearly the same treatment. I know the circumstances are different but I think some of the hostility is because Smith's conditioning wasn't great and he didn't meet what were probably very unrealistic expectations. Fair enough, but as someone else noted, it's not like he committed a crime.

As far as recruiting is concerned Smith's presence really doesn't matter. He's only eligible for 2014-2015, and we aren't chasing any top big man recruits that would come in next year. People say, "recruit a big or JUCO transfer", but we already lost out on the high profile bigs we were recruiting for 2014, and I'm not sure there are high quality JUCO transfers out there anyway. At this point, I do think the staff will try to add somebody but we are more likely to get another project like Hayes than somebody can immediately help next year.

If Smith transferred he would basically get one semester of eligibility, and he'd have to wait a year in all likelihood. I think if he wants to play another college game he will stay.

Lastly, we don't need Smith to welcome Trey Mourning next year, so again Smith staying won't impact that decision. By all accounts, Mourning isn't an immediate impact player either, so while I would welcome him, he's probably not the answer on the court.

[SFHoya99]

I don't think anyone on this board knows enough to judge whether Smith should be allowed to practice/return.

It's a question of effort, intent and whether his presence affects the rest of the team negatively.

[seaweed]

He is certainly isn't going to get in worse shape by going to practice, which makes that one good reason to have him there.

[EtomicB]

G'town can support him academically but cut him loose athletically until he's fully eligible and in shape to play..

What can the staff do if he's late for practice now? or dogs it in practice or mouths off or gives a hard foul? To me it's not worth the risk of undermining you're authority with other team members..

I personally don't want him back with the team but if JT3 decides he does then he should set very strict rules/parameters for his reinstatement. I like Frazier's idea of setting a weight limit for him, make it 275.. If he hits it by the 1st day of practice he can play, no exceptions

I find it interesting that when he was at UCLA he did fine in class but the pressure of Howland pushing him to lose weight hampered him but now at G'town JT3 allows him to be at whatever weight he's comfortable with and now he can't make it in the classroom.. I don't have to be Dr. Phil to know the young man has issues he needs to work through, maybe a full break from basketball will be good for him..

[Filo]

Jan 25, 2014 12:36:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

G'town can support him academically but cut him loose athletically until he's fully eligible and in shape to play..

What can the staff do if he's late for practice now? or dogs it in practice or mouths off or gives a hard foul? To me it's not worth the risk of undermining you're authority with other team members..

Umm, how about not letting him practice with the team if he engages in any of that type of behavior?

[EtomicB]

Jan 25, 2014 12:43:04 GMT -5 Filo said:

Jan 25, 2014 12:36:26 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

G'town can support him academically but cut him loose athletically until he's fully eligible and in shape to play..

What can the staff do if he's late for practice now? or dogs it in practice or mouths off or gives a hard foul? To me it's not worth the risk of undermining you're authority with other team members..

Umm, how about not letting him practice with the team if he engages in any of that type of behavior?

For how long though Filo? a day? a week? Not to mention if he screws up and gets kicked out practice then it's more bad pub for the program.. It's not worth it to me

[daytonahoya31]

Jan 25, 2014 11:44:39 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Jan 25, 2014 11:15:28 GMT -5 drquigley said:

I agree with oldhoyafan that it is time to cut Smith loose. He had ample opportunity to get his act together and didn't. We need to start recruiting and we can't do that effectively if we aren't sure whether Smith will be back. To be honest though I expect him to "self deport" like Whittington.

I find it interesting that a bunch of people argued in another thread that Georgetown wasn't doing enough to support the players academically, yet now a whole bunch of people advocate throwing him off the team because of the problem. I don't see why everybody is being so negative on Smith, especially considering Whittington didn't get nearly the same treatment. I know the circumstances are different but I think some of the hostility is because Smith's conditioning wasn't great and he didn't meet what were probably very unrealistic expectations. Fair enough, but as someone else noted, it's not like he committed a crime.

As far as recruiting is concerned Smith's presence really doesn't matter. He's only eligible for 2014-2015, and we aren't chasing any top big man recruits that would come in next year. People say, "recruit a big or JUCO transfer", but we already lost out on the high profile bigs we were recruiting for 2014, and I'm not sure there are high quality JUCO transfers out there anyway. At this point, I do think the staff will try to add somebody but we are more likely to get another project like Hayes than somebody can immediately help next year.

If Smith transferred he would basically get one semester of eligibility, and he'd have to wait a year in all likelihood. I think if he wants to play another college game he will stay.

Lastly, we don't need Smith to welcome Trey Mourning next year, so again Smith staying won't impact that decision. By all accounts, Mourning isn't an immediate impact player either, so while I would welcome him, he's probably not the answer on the court.

Speaking for myself, I'm very critical of Smith for these reasons.

1) He had an entire season off to get into shape. He blamed everyone but himself at UCLA for his problems. He could've dedicated himself to losing weight and putting himself in position to have a great season, and he didn't. He's a fantastic talent offensively who is one of the laziest kids to ever come through this program. When he was in the lineup, we basically had to concede one side of the floor.

2) He embarrassed himself, the university, the team and most of all JTIII with this. III truly stuck his neck out on this one. He was given an irrational gift by the NCAA - two full seasons of eligibility, when in truth he should've had three semesters max. Truthfully, nobody would've said a word if he had been given one. The national writers and everyone connected damn near mutinied when Josh was given those two seasons. And now that he flunked off the team, he really just basically spit at everyone who tried to help him. After that? I'm sorry. I want him gone. If III brings him back, I will cheer my behind off for him. But I want to start over and I don't think it's sanctimonious to feel that way.

3) As someone who played ball in college, I know that it's awfully hard to flunk off a team, even at an institution as hard as Georgetown. You have consistent study hall. You have tutors falling at your feet in every single subject. Your academic advisors go on the road with you. There are at least 15 people around the program who's specific job and only reason getting paid is to keep you eligible. The professors - 95 percent of them - are extremely understanding. You simply get advantages that a regular student doesn't have. You really have to put an effort into being so bad academically that you can't play ball. With Whit, I'm not sure of his situation. But with Josh? He's gone through an entire college career of being lazy, of being the guy who simply coasts on his talent.

It's awfully hard to feel sorry for a guy like that.