HarbinHoya
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 544
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Post by HarbinHoya on Jan 24, 2014 16:48:46 GMT -5
This has probably been answered and I know his previous transfer might make this a non issue, but what transfer rights does he have in this situation? As I understand it he has not been suspended by the NCAA, but rather Georgetown. So he just loses a year of eligibility because Gtown decides he doesn't meet the academic standards? Don't get me wrong, I'm on the Gtown/JT3 side of this debate, but if this type of stuff is allowed wouldn't it not create a loop hole where teams could suspend players for undefined violations of school conduct and thus basically force transfers if they wanted to get rid of someone? I know that can also be done by just not playing someone, but this way seems to make the school look a lot more in the right. Does that make sense?
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Jan 24, 2014 16:48:53 GMT -5
JTIII gets a couple million a year. I won't be shedding a tear for him.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,642
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Post by prhoya on Jan 24, 2014 17:17:18 GMT -5
Un-dunking-believable! What a wasted opportunity...
Keep recruiting as if Josh cannot be counted on.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 24, 2014 18:04:32 GMT -5
This has probably been answered and I know his previous transfer might make this a non issue, but what transfer rights does he have in this situation? As I understand it he has not been suspended by the NCAA, but rather Georgetown. So he just loses a year of eligibility because Gtown decides he doesn't meet the academic standards? Don't get me wrong, I'm on the Gtown/JT3 side of this debate, but if this type of stuff is allowed wouldn't it not create a loop hole where teams could suspend players for undefined violations of school conduct and thus basically force transfers if they wanted to get rid of someone? I know that can also be done by just not playing someone, but this way seems to make the school look a lot more in the right. Does that make sense? Remember that scholarships are year-to-year deals, not all 4 years. They don't have to "force" a transfer, just not renew the scholarship. |
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mapei
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,099
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Post by mapei on Jan 24, 2014 18:13:12 GMT -5
I care about Hoya basketball as much as anyone here. But I care about the integrity of Georgetown University more. It bothers me that we recruited guys that couldn't hack it or didn't have the attitude to hack it academically. Those things should be judged as part of recruiting. If you make one mistake, you can say it happens. Bad luck. If it happens twice in a couple of years, I'm starting to suspect we have a recruiting issue.
And I don't understand why Joshua is being allowed to practice with the team if he let everybody down like this.
On the court, I was occasionally impressed by Joshua but not to the extent that some people seem to be. I first became acquainted with him when we played UCLA and he was this overweight guy who subbed in and wasn't the least bit frightening as an opponent. I was surprised that we wanted him; surprised again that, when he first put on a Hoya uniform, he didn't look much different than he did as a soph at UCLA; and now I'm just really disappointed. I wish we could just let him go and move on.
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Elvado
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,080
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Post by Elvado on Jan 24, 2014 18:44:51 GMT -5
There is something to the idea that the Catholic tradition of GU does not consider people to be disposable. Thus while Josh may not be able to play, he is not without value as a person and not beyond benefitting from education at GU.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 24, 2014 18:46:03 GMT -5
Boot him. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. I'd rather have Moses as our starting C next year than a surly, overweight Josh Smith. |
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jan 24, 2014 18:51:39 GMT -5
I agree that he was a gamble. I would also love to see him back sans 50 pounds. However, I am not going to resort to all the name calling. Like I have shared several times before, as someone at 260 myself, I know how hard it is to shed those pounds. Let's not treat the kid as if he were some bastard child of the Hoyas. I will pray that he can turn things around.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,005
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 24, 2014 19:35:26 GMT -5
As I understand it he has not been suspended by the NCAA, but rather Georgetown. I don't think that we know that to be true. Nothing we've heard so far is actually inconsistent with NCAA eligibility -- there is a grace period where grades can be made up or changed. Why would they suspend someone to force a transfer? Georgetown could have played him then pulled his scholarship for next year. Scholarships are on a year to year basis -- it may not be fair, but the school can terminate the arrangement pretty much at will. They don't need to fake academic reasons. If a player sucks, they can just say that his scholarship won't be renewed next year because he sucks. While the phrasing is different, this happens to different degrees all the time. "I think you'd be happier at another school since you will never see the court here..." How often the player says, "No, I'd rather stay on a team where I'm unwelcome" and forces the school to decide to actually pull it, well, i don't know. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,005
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 24, 2014 19:39:10 GMT -5
I care about Hoya basketball as much as anyone here. But I care about the integrity of Georgetown University more. It bothers me that we recruited guys that couldn't hack it or didn't have the attitude to hack it academically. Those things should be judged as part of recruiting. If you make one mistake, you can say it happens. Bad luck. If it happens twice in a couple of years, I'm starting to suspect we have a recruiting issue. And I don't understand why Joshua is being allowed to practice with the team if he let everybody down like this. On the court, I was occasionally impressed by Joshua but not to the extent that some people seem to be. I first became acquainted with him when we played UCLA and he was this overweight guy who subbed in and wasn't the least bit frightening as an opponent. I was surprised that we wanted him; surprised again that, when he first put on a Hoya uniform, he didn't look much different than he did as a soph at UCLA; and now I'm just really disappointed. I wish we could just let him go and move on. The standard college transfer/dropout rate -- of regular students, not athletes -- is actually pretty high. I don't think it is easy to judge who can and can't handle the workload. I think of the people we hire at my work -- it's tough to judge. And I don't think there's an integrity issue to giving someone a chance. In many ways, as a Catholic school, I think there's a solid argument towards giving second chances. And yes, I know it's not charity; Josh got a second chance because he can play basketball. But he's still 20-something and it's not like he committed a violent crime. He should get a third chance; it just probably won't be at GU. |
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,681
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Post by tashoya on Jan 24, 2014 20:27:33 GMT -5
It is a bad situation for the team and for Joshua. Without knowing the whole story, there's no reason to bash a kid when he's down. He can't feel good about what has happened but if, in fact, it's an academic issue and (trying to think positively) he was working hard but just couldn't make it happen, he deserves a bit of empathy at the least. That's what I'm telling myself anyway. The tone of the statements by JT3 make me think that that's not the case but, regardless of the situation, I trust the staff and the university to do the right thing. If anything, they got some practice with Greg in handling such matters as, contrary to some of the discussions here, this is not a common occurrence for our Hoyas.
That said, prhoya made a good point IMO. It is likely best to recruit as if Josh can't be counted on to return. That seems fair and the prudent move from a basketball standpoint. I'd be very surprised if another scholarship didn't open up one way or the other anyway.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079 
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Post by sleepy on Jan 24, 2014 20:48:19 GMT -5
Some of the sanctimonious comments regarding Smith and his eligibility made by some without knowing the entire situation is not only premature but speaks volumes to the thinking of those lambasting both the kid and Thompson. We have no knowledge of what transpired and what led to the academic suspension whether it was Georgetown or NCAA related. We most likely never will nor should we expect to. Similiar situations have happened over the last 40 years many in back to back years and multiple players in the same year some where stars and some where not some didn't meet NCAA guidelines and some didn't meet Georgetown or JTII academic requirements. I jsut can't recall a situation where the personal attacks especially at a Kid have begun to approach this level. I'm just glad this board wasn't around back in Michael Grahams day.The unwarrented comments then would have been far too much for this board to handle. Then again many of you may be right its all on the kid, the coach and lack of academic support. Guess its time to bring back Mary.
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 24, 2014 21:26:51 GMT -5
There is something to the idea that the Catholic tradition of GU does not consider people to be disposable. Thus while Josh may not be able to play, he is not without value as a person and not beyond benefitting from education at GU. +1 |
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Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 24, 2014 21:41:14 GMT -5
Guess who isn't going pro this year? At least that option is ruled out (although he could make an ill-fated attempt). If he comes back and drops another 30 to 50 pounds, with long athletic wings we could be alright and he would be a bridge to our next big. Good luck to him. I think this is about as likely as him graduating magna cum laude. |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,427
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 24, 2014 23:17:09 GMT -5
There is something to the idea that the Catholic tradition of GU does not consider people to be disposable. Thus while Josh may not be able to play, he is not without value as a person and not beyond benefitting from education at GU. I'm all for GU allowing & assisting Josh with his education but he should not be allowed to participate in any activities team related until he's fully eligible.. Allowing him to practice is a recipe for disaster.. |
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Post by vanman on Jan 24, 2014 23:28:20 GMT -5
Academic problems don't just show up one day. They show up early enough to be addressed in a timely fashion. Especially under careful supervision. Pops would have had his foot up the ass of any player who started to mess up. Discipline is what a lot of young people are lacking and in need of.
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Jan 25, 2014 0:28:52 GMT -5
Coincidentally, just this morning I wrote a Nodak-style cover of "Tuesday's Gone" called "Season's Gone." And then read this . . . . ugh. Are you gonna share it? Sure, once it's recorded and ready. You have any new ones in the works? |
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This Just In
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Bold Prediction: The Hoyas will win at least 1 BE game in 2023.
Posts: 10,598
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Post by This Just In on Jan 25, 2014 0:37:03 GMT -5
People keep saying yea...he can come back less 50 to 60lbs...
Josh Smith needs to worry about his grades 1st and weight 2nd.
Even if Josh smith comes back 10lbs heavier, it will not stop him from starting...he is basically guaranteed the starting Center position in the fall.
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nodak89
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Roy Roy Royyyyy!!!
Posts: 1,881
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Post by nodak89 on Jan 25, 2014 0:37:40 GMT -5
Sure, once it's recorded and ready. You have any new ones in the works? Nothing so far... |
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Post by HometownHoya on Jan 25, 2014 1:57:32 GMT -5
Well we know hes gone for the year, at least the team will have a little bit of stability. Interesting to hear that he is still practicing with the team, I'd rather have him either in a study hall or running the treadmill throughout practice. Hope we can get him back for next year but I wouldn't be surprised if we lose him to the pro game (Dleague or Euro so he can escape academics). Don't think we give Hayes a shot in the next 3 games but if things continue on the trend they've been on he should get minutes for the second half of BE play.
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