|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 18, 2014 15:44:25 GMT -5
Oh come on, even with Whittington, who is to say we're any good at all?
|
|
hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by hoyabinx on Jan 18, 2014 15:49:47 GMT -5
Oh come on, even with Whittington, who is to say we're any good at all? His 12 points and 10 rebounds he averaged last year in non-conference play? A 3rd offensive option? And I guess you are just ignoring Porter and Adams. |
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 18, 2014 15:55:48 GMT -5
We've had plenty of time to deal with the Adams issue, and it was also absolutely plausible that we'd lose a kid who was a big time recruit before his Junior year. Again, that's why it's called "planning". You have to plan for various outcomes.
|
|
prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,643
Member is Online
|
Post by prhoya on Jan 18, 2014 15:59:53 GMT -5
Oh come on, even with Whittington, who is to say we're any good at all? His 12 points and 10 rebounds he averaged last year in non-conference play? A 3rd offensive option? And I guess you are just ignoring Porter and Adams. The staff has known they couldn't count on Adams since he was diagnosed during the transfer off year. He has not been an obstacle to getting a big since that time. In other words, the staff hasn't stopped recruiting bigs because Adams was there. |
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079 
|
Post by sleepy on Jan 18, 2014 16:02:00 GMT -5
We've had plenty of time to deal with the Adams issue, and it was also absolutely plausible that we'd lose a kid who was a big time recruit before his Junior year. Again, that's why it's called "planning". You have to plan for various outcomes. Put no one plans to lose three out of 5 players before their junior year and then the fourth half way through, and then the sixth player you picked up via transfer halfway through as well. If you've ever seen multiple programs lose that much, unexpectedly, please give me an example and then an example of how well they coped. I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 and not shocked if there wasn't one. |
|
hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by hoyabinx on Jan 18, 2014 16:04:52 GMT -5
We've had plenty of time to deal with the Adams issue, and it was also absolutely plausible that we'd lose a kid who was a big time recruit before his Junior year. Again, that's why it's called "planning". You have to plan for various outcomes. That's why I said "to a lesser extent" for Adams. And Otto was not a "big time recruit." Recruiting players takes a lot of time and has to be planned years out. Hard to recover from losing two members of your front court that plausibly should have played at least through their junior year. I just realized who I was debating with so I know I won't be changing your mind. But I am in the camp that this season was the perfect storm of losing players we had planned to rely on. |
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 18, 2014 16:47:12 GMT -5
We've had plenty of time to deal with the Adams issue, and it was also absolutely plausible that we'd lose a kid who was a big time recruit before his Junior year. Again, that's why it's called "planning". You have to plan for various outcomes. That's why I said "to a lesser extent" for Adams. And Otto was not a "big time recruit." Recruiting players takes a lot of time and has to be planned years out. Hard to recover from losing two members of your front court that plausibly should have played at least through their junior year. I just realized who I was debating with so I know I won't be changing your mind. But I am in the camp that this season was the perfect storm of losing players we had planned to rely on. Otto was not a big time recruit? sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Otto-Porter-108410Is 37th in the country big time or not? I'm confused. It's absolutely plausible that you could lose the 37th ranked player in the country after two years. It's not a perfect storm by any means. Bad break? Sure. But losing Porter after two years? Foreseeable. Whittington screwing up again after what happened last year? Foreseeable. Not ever getting Adams back? Clear for a long time to the staff. Then we scrambled to pick up Josh Smith, who we knew was a risk to be totally out of shape and have a poor work ethic, as was rumored at UCLA. Now that has come to fruition, and we're surprised? |
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Jan 18, 2014 17:00:51 GMT -5
That's why I said "to a lesser extent" for Adams. And Otto was not a "big time recruit." Recruiting players takes a lot of time and has to be planned years out. Hard to recover from losing two members of your front court that plausibly should have played at least through their junior year. I just realized who I was debating with so I know I won't be changing your mind. But I am in the camp that this season was the perfect storm of losing players we had planned to rely on. Otto was not a big time recruit? sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Otto-Porter-108410Is 37th in the country big time or not? I'm confused. It's absolutely plausible that you could lose the 37th ranked player in the country after two years. It's not a perfect storm by any means. Bad break? Sure. But losing Porter after two years? Foreseeable. Whittington screwing up again after what happened last year? Foreseeable. Not ever getting Adams back? Clear for a long time to the staff. Then we scrambled to pick up Josh Smith, who we knew was a risk to be totally out of shape and have a poor work ethic, as was rumored at UCLA. Now that has come to fruition, and we're surprised? But Whittington isn't playing this season because he screwed up, he isn't playing because he tore is ACL. It entirely possible that he whatever he didn't wouldn't to get kicked off wouldn't have happened if he was on the court. Even if you see Whittington's lose this season as as a predictable factor, that was only 12 months ago. There is very little the staff could have done between to January of last year and the beginning of this season to fix that. You honestly think losing Jabril, Porter, Whittington, Adams and Smith in a two year period is something the staff, or any coaching staff for that matter, should have for seen and planned for? That's 5 players out of a 6 player graduating class. Individually, of course the chances of losing one should be prepared and predicted, but losing 5 out of 6 is highly unlikely. |
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2014 17:36:01 GMT -5
We've had plenty of time to deal with the Adams issue, and it was also absolutely plausible that we'd lose a kid who was a big time recruit before his Junior year. Again, that's why it's called "planning". You have to plan for various outcomes. Put no one plans to lose three out of 5 players before their junior year and then the fourth half way through, and then the sixth player you picked up via transfer halfway through as well. If you've ever seen multiple programs lose that much, unexpectedly, please give me an example and then an example of how well they coped. I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 and not shocked if there wasn't one. Kentucky loses 5-6 undergrads a year lol |
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 18, 2014 17:44:50 GMT -5
Otto was not a big time recruit? sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/player-Otto-Porter-108410Is 37th in the country big time or not? I'm confused. It's absolutely plausible that you could lose the 37th ranked player in the country after two years. It's not a perfect storm by any means. Bad break? Sure. But losing Porter after two years? Foreseeable. Whittington screwing up again after what happened last year? Foreseeable. Not ever getting Adams back? Clear for a long time to the staff. Then we scrambled to pick up Josh Smith, who we knew was a risk to be totally out of shape and have a poor work ethic, as was rumored at UCLA. Now that has come to fruition, and we're surprised? But Whittington isn't playing this season because he screwed up, he isn't playing because he tore is ACL. It entirely possible that he whatever he didn't wouldn't to get kicked off wouldn't have happened if he was on the court. Even if you see Whittington's lose this season as as a predictable factor, that was only 12 months ago. There is very little the staff could have done between to January of last year and the beginning of this season to fix that. You honestly think losing Jabril, Porter, Whittington, Adams and Smith in a two year period is something the staff, or any coaching staff for that matter, should have for seen and planned for? That's 5 players out of a 6 player graduating class. Individually, of course the chances of losing one should be prepared and predicted, but losing 5 out of 6 is highly unlikely. Whittington was foreseeable as soon as he got into trouble, but you're right that was only a year ago. I'm also saying just adding Whittington to this team wouldn't make it good. I don't think having Jabril makes a big difference either way, so I'm not counting him in the losses column. We get him back and we're not much better. I'm saying that losing Adams, Porter and Smith were all foreseeable (and we lucked into Smith at the last minute). It's a failure of planning to be this bad without them. |
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Jan 18, 2014 19:02:22 GMT -5
But Whittington isn't playing this season because he screwed up, he isn't playing because he tore is ACL. It entirely possible that he whatever he didn't wouldn't to get kicked off wouldn't have happened if he was on the court. Even if you see Whittington's lose this season as as a predictable factor, that was only 12 months ago. There is very little the staff could have done between to January of last year and the beginning of this season to fix that. You honestly think losing Jabril, Porter, Whittington, Adams and Smith in a two year period is something the staff, or any coaching staff for that matter, should have for seen and planned for? That's 5 players out of a 6 player graduating class. Individually, of course the chances of losing one should be prepared and predicted, but losing 5 out of 6 is highly unlikely. Whittington was foreseeable as soon as he got into trouble, but you're right that was only a year ago. I'm also saying just adding Whittington to this team wouldn't make it good. I don't think having Jabril makes a big difference either way, so I'm not counting him in the losses column. We get him back and we're not much better. I'm saying that losing Adams, Porter and Smith were all foreseeable (and we lucked into Smith at the last minute). It's a failure of planning to be this bad without them. Ha. This is ridiculous. So adding two guards who are great defenders and can handle the ball enough to be a 2, one of which would have added at least a third scoring thread (fourth with Smith), would make this team no better? Are you insane? Just adding the extra guard depth would help immensely. Getting Smith wasn't luck and it was our answer to losing Adams for crying out loud, and no losing him completely wasn't foreseeable. It was possible he wouldn't be productive but he wasn't some crazy off the court, drop out risk. Maybe he would be in shape, maybe he wouldn't was the risk. So basically the players we couldn't have foreseen being gone would have made no difference but we did nothing for the players we could have predicted. It seems to me Whittington was the back up plan when Otto went pro and then once the staff found out Adams was out probably 2011 or 2012, they got Smith. Right now we are on plan C for 2 positions. But you are right, we wouldn't be any better with Whittington or Jabril. Heck, good think Otto left, he probably couldn't improve things either. I'm not even sure if Ewing circa 1984, Jeff and Roy found an extra year of eligibility they could help things either. We are doomed. Doomed for all eternity. DOOMED. |
|
|
|
Post by Problem of Dog on Jan 18, 2014 19:25:33 GMT -5
Well that was a waste of my time to read. Come up with something better and I'll humor it.
We don't win today's game with Jabril. This isn't an NCAA tournament team with Whittington. And Smith has been lazy since high school, so he was always a risk to either be a waste of two seats on the bench or waste of an admissions slot at Georgetown.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,007
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 18, 2014 19:38:45 GMT -5
Put no one plans to lose three out of 5 players before their junior year and then the fourth half way through, and then the sixth player you picked up via transfer halfway through as well. If you've ever seen multiple programs lose that much, unexpectedly, please give me an example and then an example of how well they coped. I'd be surprised if there were more than 2 and not shocked if there wasn't one. Kentucky loses 5-6 undergrads a year lol I think everyone would be willing to stipulate that we aren't going to be Kentucky as they are right now. If that's the standard, I'd get a new team. Like Kentucky. Because they are pretty much the only ones that do that. |
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Jan 18, 2014 19:56:52 GMT -5
Well that was a waste of my time to read. Come up with something better and I'll humor it. We don't win today's game with Jabril. This isn't an NCAA tournament team with Whittington. And Smith has been lazy since high school, so he was always a risk to either be a waste of two seats on the bench or waste of an admissions slot at Georgetown. We probably do win this game with Jabril, someone to guard Edwin. We probably are a tournament team with Whittington. And I don't even think Whittingtons that good, but defense and depth addition alone would make us significantly better. |
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2014 20:08:41 GMT -5
Kentucky loses 5-6 undergrads a year lol I think everyone would be willing to stipulate that we aren't going to be Kentucky as they are right now. If that's the standard, I'd get a new team. Like Kentucky. Because they are pretty much the only ones that do that. Tongue-in-cheek, my friend. |
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,007
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 18, 2014 20:09:24 GMT -5
Gotcha. Everything's so unhappy I missed the tone.
|
|
skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
|
Post by skyhoya on Jan 18, 2014 20:32:09 GMT -5
we lost today because our guards were covered like gloves in the second half, no one was willing to step up and take charge. it's time for someone to put their big boy pants on and make the effort
|
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 18, 2014 20:35:52 GMT -5
Gotcha. Everything's so unhappy I missed the tone. Depression drags us all down SF. |
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 18, 2014 21:59:21 GMT -5
It's funny that people scramble for news from John Thompson III, but it's almost 8 hours after the game, and nobody has noted John Thompson III said this after the game:
"Jabril is not going to be back anytime soon. What that means I don't know, but it's going to be weeks before he's back and we don't know about Josh..." So there you go. They don't know. That doesn't mean he won't be back this year, but it also doesn't mean he will.
Unless you think our coach is lying, the answer is: we don't know when Smith will be back.
|
|
skyhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,496
|
Post by skyhoya on Jan 19, 2014 0:38:36 GMT -5
josh will be back two weeks after witt comes back
|
|
