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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 14, 2014 11:30:54 GMT -5
Not only did Roy Hibbert come in as a project, but his freshman season was also not super impressive (even if one could see the potential there). Hibbert used the most possessions on the team that year (25.3) and his offensive efficiency (89.2) was the worst on the team (by a good margin) aside from Ryshawn Reed. To give you an idea, on the numbers alone, that's not all that different from Hopkins last year.
Hibbert's freshman-to-sophomore improvement was nothing short of phenomenal. He went from an offensive efficiency of 89.2 to 120.9, while using essentially the same number of possessions (25.6). That's a pretty amazing transformation, and one not likely to happen in other similar instances.
That's why I don't think it's fair to criticize John Thompson III if he said he wouldn't have recruited Hibbert. In most cases, a recruit like Hibbert doesn't turn into anything. We were lucky that Hibbert was a hard worker, and turned things around (being 7'2 doesn't hurt either).
Somebody like Josh Smith is a much safer bet out of high school, since he was a McDonald's All American. Some of them don't pan out either, but the odds of success are higher.
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TBird41
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Post by TBird41 on Jan 14, 2014 11:48:10 GMT -5
Not only did Roy Hibbert come in as a project, but his freshman season was also not super impressive (even if one could see the potential there). Hibbert used the most possessions on the team that year (25.3) and his offensive efficiency (89.2) was the worst on the team (by a good margin) aside from Ryshawn Reed. To give you an idea, on the numbers alone, that's not all that different from Hopkins last year. Hibbert's freshman-to-sophomore improvement was nothing short of phenomenal. He went from an offensive efficiency of 89.2 to 120.9, while using essentially the same number of possessions (25.6). That's a pretty amazing transformation, and one not likely to happen in other similar instances. That's why I don't think it's fair to criticize John Thompson III if he said he wouldn't have recruited Hibbert. In most cases, a recruit like Hibbert doesn't turn into anything. We were lucky that Hibbert was a hard worker, and turned things around (being 7'2 doesn't hurt either). Somebody like Josh Smith is a much safer bet out of high school, since he was a McDonald's All American. Some of them don't pan out either, but the odds of success are higher. Look--I knew Ray Reed was bad, but I had no idea that he was worse than Roy offensively his last year here. An ORating of 83.0? That's, well, that's apparently slightly better than Mikael's ORating of 82.8 last year (of course Ray Reed only used 15% of our possessions, instead of 23% of our possessions). |
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Post by BubbleVisionBiff on Jan 14, 2014 13:58:47 GMT -5
Michael Bohlin @mbohlin247
Per #Hoyas head coach John Thompson III starting center Joshua Smith will not travel with the team to Xavier due to same academic issue.
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This Just In
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Post by This Just In on Jan 14, 2014 15:17:50 GMT -5
Michael Bohlin @mbohlin247 Per #Hoyas head coach John Thompson III starting center Joshua Smith will not travel with the team to Xavier due to same academic issue. Do not know why it is being announced on a game to game basis..when everyone basically knows what Josh Smith status will be for the rest of the season. Only feasible reason I think of is to give the next opponent something to game plan for. |
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Post by triplehoya09 on Jan 14, 2014 15:50:23 GMT -5
Michael Bohlin @mbohlin247 Per #Hoyas head coach John Thompson III starting center Joshua Smith will not travel with the team to Xavier due to same academic issue. Well that's incredibly disappointing. I was very excited about his potential to contribute to the program this season. I just hope the issue is something that can be resolved in the near future... |
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 14, 2014 15:51:13 GMT -5
Michael Bohlin @mbohlin247 Per #Hoyas head coach John Thompson III starting center Joshua Smith will not travel with the team to Xavier due to same academic issue. Do not know why it is being announced on a game to game basis..when everyone basically knows what Josh Smith status will be for the rest of the season. Only feasible reason I think of is to give the next opponent something to game plan for. Please tell me how you know he's done for the season? When did you meet him? How long have you and JT3 been friends? Where did you meet his parents? How many classes have you taught of his at GU? When did you become a psychic? Are you allowed to have a hoyatalk account while being on the coaching staff? Also Bohlin has no credibility, you're right. That's why people keep citing his tweets. |
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 14, 2014 15:58:14 GMT -5
First off Georgetown's image as a powerhouse has not been damaged by a bad streak of post season runs. The school shook off those losses almost like it never happened and steered an entire conference during a pivotal realignment while bringing in one of its strongest recruiting classes, in recent years...and doing so ahead of time for its 2014 class. Also turned over a few assistant coaches and brought in a few that I'm excited about. On the point of Roy, he was seen as a big stiff and not clear at all if he was going to be one of the elite centers in the NBA at the point of time when he was coming out of Georgetown Prep. I think there had to be a certain degree of Roy persuading JT3 that he was going to be one of the hardest workers any of us have ever seen to convince coach that he should be highly considered in JT3s future as the new Hoyas coach. I remember having incredible frustration with Roy early on as he was pretty raw his freshman year, but always you had to consider big Roy for his dedication, incredible size and will-do. The kid knew he was going to be a superstar, he had the vision for it, and he executed on it brilliantly even though he could hardly run and catch coming out of high school. Pretty incredible story of one guys dreams and dedication and JT3s willingness to be open minded and dedicated in return. Esh deserves some credit in this Georgetown recruting effort too (which is why I love this story so much). This has to be difficult because how do you really distinguish a Roy Hibbert from a Joshua Smith. Both have been given an incredible gift of size and equally big hearts. Both came with pretty convincing stories but clear risks. I roll my eyes at anyone who talks about JT3 and his team of talent evaluators like that's something that needs to be fixed. Every year the recruits that we bring in have similar skillsets, risks, and adolescent issues as the classes before them and before that. There's just an incredible amount of varibables and an aspect of luck in college basketball (which is a big reason why we all watch it) that you just have to accept. And JT3 does a fine job managing all of those variables. Only thing you can knock him for is just having a bad streak of luck. On the point of JT3 job security. Such a silly thing that should never be mentioned in the breath of any posts on this board. I just laugh at anyone who says anything about JT3 being "held accountable" for our bad streak of post season runs he is probably more cemented at Georgetown than the John Carroll statue. Also rolling my eyes on writing letters and still having palms up about A.I. You are delusional if our image as a powerhouse has not been damaged by our postseason records. We have been mocked by many of our rivals for getting our butts whooped by likes of FGFU, Ohio and VCU. In fact, some hardcore Syracuse fans even stated on their forum that they wish we would get Nerlen Noels over Kentucky because they sympathize how bad we have played recently in the postseason. If the fans of our most hated rival sympathizes our recent records, you know that it is pretty bad. 3 has not made any meaningful adjustments into his game plan this season; it is the same ole as it always has been, and as a result, some of us continue to have diminished hope of this program this season. The 2014 class is definitely strong and I am looking forward to that like many other people here. Josh was actually waaaaaaay more talented than Hibbert coming out of high school. This guy was MCDAA and was far ahead of Hibbert at the same age stage. Did not translate as well so far into college. The so called "variables" are things that the HC and assistant coaches also evaluate during recruiting. Of course JT3 would not have known that Josh would have programs with academics at Georgetown, but neverthless he is also responsible somewhat because he is the one who is charge of all this. You are right that JT3 will never lose his job here as I have also mentioned above. But if we continue to get bounced out on the first weekend, he will certainly lose a lot of support from fans. I am a proud alumnus of the school and I will continue to be a fan of my school regardless of how they do, but not everyone here is Georgetown Alumni. I know a number of "respectable" posters here on HT who have stopped posting because they got simply frustrated with the way 3 handles things for the past few years and no longer worthy of following the program. Of course it won't matter to 3 if a few of us stop cheering for him. But as a fan of this program, I would like us to do well and make us proud of the name we cheer for. Cosmo - I measure GTown's powerhouse image based on recruiting. It's a pretty good indicator of where you stand in the life blood of your program and you can mark yourself with each recruiting class. Why would a guy like Paul White commit to Georgetown when he has an offer from Arizona (an elite program)? Why would Marcus Derrickson commit here over an offer from Indiana? Georgetown is still a magnet for talent with a convincing value proposition. Checking in with Nune's or whatever other boards you may be referring to in your post is not how you measure our image as a powerhouse. Letting a Cuse fan board get under your skin is pretty pathetic. Have some respect for yourself (and also never admit that). I also think this board is better off without fair weather fans even if they are considered by you as respectable. We won the Big East conference (the same conference as Syracuse and Lousiville) just last year how are you not proud of that? JT3 got a kid drafted #3 overall how are you not proud of that (also a good indicator of powerhouse status, but i digress)? We are all trying to forget FGCU...why don't you help this board out and stop bringing it up? |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 14, 2014 16:03:22 GMT -5
Michael Bohlin @mbohlin247 Per #Hoyas head coach John Thompson III starting center Joshua Smith will not travel with the team to Xavier due to same academic issue. Do not know why it is being announced on a game to game basis..when everyone basically knows what Josh Smith status will be for the rest of the season. Only feasible reason I think of is to give the next opponent something to game plan for. I seriously hope Smith is back this season to prove everybody wrong who keeps insisting it will not happen (with no basis in fact). I'm not saying that Smith will be back, but it amazes me how people speculate endlessly and then use that speculation as the basis of their factual statements. |
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 14, 2014 16:08:28 GMT -5
Do not know why it is being announced on a game to game basis..when everyone basically knows what Josh Smith status will be for the rest of the season. Only feasible reason I think of is to give the next opponent something to game plan for. Please tell me how you know he's done for the season? When did you meet him? How long have you and JT3 been friends? Where did you meet his parents? How many classes have you taught of his at GU? When did you become a psychic? Are you allowed to have a hoyatalk account while being on the coaching staff? Also Bohlin has no credibility, you're right. That's why people keep citing his tweets. Rock - I'm still waiting on your response from your earlier post in this thread where you mentioned that Josh must be having personal problems. How exactly do you know that? Seems like you can dish it out but you can't take it. Stop antagonizing every other post on this board. Please. Your level of hypocrisy is just ridiculous. |
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 14, 2014 16:32:13 GMT -5
Please tell me how you know he's done for the season? When did you meet him? How long have you and JT3 been friends? Where did you meet his parents? How many classes have you taught of his at GU? When did you become a psychic? Are you allowed to have a hoyatalk account while being on the coaching staff? Also Bohlin has no credibility, you're right. That's why people keep citing his tweets. Rock - I'm still waiting on your response from your earlier post in this thread where you mentioned that Josh must be having personal problems. How exactly do you know that? Seems like you can dish it out but you can't take it. Stop antagonizing every other post on this board. Please. Your level of hypocrisy is just ridiculous. Please show me a post where I said Josh must be having personal problems.... |
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biggmanu
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Post by biggmanu on Jan 14, 2014 16:37:09 GMT -5
Sounds like a personal problem... Rock - So what are you doing here? Are you coming to a conclusion about Josh's whole life including on a personal level? In the same thread that you called me out in? Just no... Right here |
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rockhoya
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Post by rockhoya on Jan 14, 2014 16:51:04 GMT -5
Rock - So what are you doing here? Are you coming to a conclusion about Josh's whole life including on a personal level? In the same thread that you called me out in? Just no... The poster I was quoting said he had little hope. I said that that sounded like a personal problem. It's not my fault it went over your head - other posters understood what I meant. Now I'd appreciate if you'd stop antagonizing me for made up reasons.... |
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Post by drjimcooper on Jan 14, 2014 17:05:34 GMT -5
I think you're in denial if you are taking both (a) the position that we recruit only great kids who graduate, except where we don't, in which case it is because we are committed to giving kids an opportunity, and (b) the position that anybody else who takes or retains bad kids or gives them another chance after academic or other issues is a money-grubbing, win at all costs program that doesn't give a Edited about student-athletes. There was a time when, fair or not (it was not), Georgetown was probably the national face of the "they will take anybody and damn the academics" criticism. Yes, that was undoubtedly grounded in racism rather than actual fact, but there is a warning in there somewhere about being so quick to question the motives of other programs that one does not like. This was part and parcel to the extremely overt racism directed at Pops and the program during the 80's. The "Patrick Ewing Can't Read This" sign being only the most prominent and despicable example. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on Jan 14, 2014 18:12:23 GMT -5
So, in other news, how 'bout dem Skins!!!
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 14, 2014 21:26:35 GMT -5
Do not know why it is being announced on a game to game basis..when everyone basically knows what Josh Smith status will be for the rest of the season. Only feasible reason I think of is to give the next opponent something to game plan for. I seriously hope Smith is back this season to prove everybody wrong who keeps insisting it will not happen (with no basis in fact). I'm not saying that Smith will be back, but it amazes me how people speculate endlessly and then use that speculation as the basis of their factual statements. We went through this song and dance last year, and everyone kept saying how horrible people were for calling the university dishonest and speculating about Whittington. But, the fact is that when the second semester starts and you aren't playing, it's not baseless speculation to think that a player has lost his eligibility because of grades. I guess we can keep thinking he is somehow still trying to recover his lost final paper from a thumb drive or something. We all hope he comes back. |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jan 14, 2014 22:03:08 GMT -5
Well if we're looking at precedent. Whittington missed two games fora violation of team rules before it was announced he was done for the semester and ineligible. So in theory if he was done for the year we would've heard it right about now, but we haven't it's still a game by game announcement.
Hopefully that is a good sign.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 14, 2014 23:44:14 GMT -5
This is what JTIII said after the 2nd game without Whittington:
On Greg's situation and if anything has changed in the last 24 hours...
"Insufficient academic process is a violation of team rules, so that didn't change. We got a couple of results this morning where it became more definitive than it was yesterday or prior to that. There was no need to put that out there until we got a read on exactly where we stood, but we got some news this morning and that's probably what changed."
These descriptions of Smith "trying to resolve an academic issue" are different, so I would not assume that the circumstances are the same as Whittington.
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Jan 15, 2014 10:12:02 GMT -5
Everyone wants Smith to be able to play, and no one wishes him ill or anything. But, the point is, it's not baseless or wild speculation to assume he is missing games because he didnt do good in the class stuff. And, as others pointed out, I dont recall college being a place where you could remedy the class stuff in a week or two. I will gladly be wrong.
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bmartin
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Post by bmartin on Jan 15, 2014 13:10:52 GMT -5
Well, I looked at the Academic Regulations, and found at least two situations that trigger procedures to resolve academic issues after the end of the semester:
If an incomplete grade is granted, the course must be completed and the final grade submitted by the professor no later than March 30 for the fall semester;
If there is an allegation of an honor system violation, there would be an investigation that can take up to a month, followed by either a dismissal or a formal hearing and possible sanctions.
I am not suggesting that either of these is the case with Smith. Just pointing out that there are at least two procedures in place to resolve grade issues after the semester.
Edit to add that there also is this:
When a student thinks that a given course grade is not justified, he or she must first discuss the grade on an informal basis with the professor of the course. Within the first twenty-one calendar days of the next semester, the student and professor should discuss the grade. After having discussed the grade with the faculty member, the student may consider a formal appeal of the grade.
Grounds for appeal. An error in grading procedures or inequity in the application of policies stated in the course syllabus are grounds for an appeal.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 15, 2014 14:00:29 GMT -5
Well, I looked at the Academic Regulations, and found at least two situations that trigger procedures to resolve academic issues after the end of the semester: If an incomplete grade is granted, the course must be completed and the final grade submitted by the professor no later than March 30 for the fall semester; If there is an allegation of an honor system violation, there would be an investigation that can take up to a month, followed by either a dismissal or a formal hearing and possible sanctions. I am not suggesting that either of these is the case with Smith. Just pointing out that there are at least two procedures in place to resolve grade issues after the semester. Edit to add that there also is this: When a student thinks that a given course grade is not justified, he or she must first discuss the grade on an informal basis with the professor of the course. Within the first twenty-one calendar days of the next semester, the student and professor should discuss the grade. After having discussed the grade with the faculty member, the student may consider a formal appeal of the grade.
Grounds for appeal. An error in grading procedures or inequity in the application of policies stated in the course syllabus are grounds for an appeal.Right. And both give reasons why someone may not be traveling on a road trip but rather staying at home and working on schoolwork. |
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