GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 8, 2012 8:06:48 GMT -5
On the day after marijuana and equal rights for marriage are the undisputed winners? I'm not making the case that we are center-left or left-left or really-really-left or whatever amorphous and ambiguous designation that you want to use to try to describe the country as more your side than someone else's, but it is a little ridiculous to read that the morning after conservative social values pretty much get rejected. I actually would argue these are precisely right-wing values, just not Republican ones which is why there's a whole wing of the Republican party being alienated right now by a voice that's get louder from a voting population getting smaller. The GOP doesn't have to "let the evangelicals go" just not pay attention to them. They'll still vote for house races and potentially get representation and give the GOP "free votes" they don't have to work for. But on a national scale, they have to rebuild their ties to the libertarian wing who have gone independent or Democrat. |
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398 
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 8, 2012 9:01:28 GMT -5
For those who posted them, thanks for the article links. The tone of those articles should be awfully familiar to those who have followed this thread for the past few years.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Nov 8, 2012 10:23:15 GMT -5
ON EDIT: Also of note, someone should point out to DFW, who used to claim that I live in the only liberal city in Texas, that the "People's Republic of Dallas" again went for Obama, 57% to 41%, same as 2008. As above, it's all about demographics. Dallas, both city and county, is now over 40% Hispanic, up from 10% just 30 years ago (The term "Latino" is not as indigenuous to Texas.). The city's ethnic split of 42% Hispanic, 22% black, and 30% white now lends itself better to Democratic candidates, though the mayor is Republican and much of the Congressional delegation is, due to gerrymandering. The suburban counties (Denton, Collin, Rockwall) are roughly 15% Hispanic and 75%+ white. But philosophically (as any Austinite will tell you), Dallas is certainly not a liberal stronghold, even with a majority minority population. This is an example of how messages which might appeal to cultural conservatives in the Hispanic population goes unheeded in the current GOP approach. In statewide offices, there is not a single elected Democrat. This too, demographically speaking, is subject to change. I would not be surpirsed to see Texas as a battleground state within the next two electoral cycles. The simplicity of this argument is convenient, but "brown Dallasites vote Democratic, white Dallasites vote Republican" ignores "relocation refugee" white voters moving to Big D from blue states in droves. www.forbes.com/2010/06/04/migration-moving-wealthy-interactive-counties-map.html?preload=48113I mean, c'mon, y'all even have a decent arts district and a craft brewery now. Nobody is going to confuse a weekend spent in Dallas with an episode of Portlandia, but the days when stodgy North Dallas defined the city are winding down. Y'all even have bars openly advertising an "Austin" atmosphere. www.dallasnews.com/entertainment/nightlife/headlines/20120911-new-bar-6th-street-uptown-tries-to-bring-a-little-austin-to-dallas.ecekatyicehouse.com/And barbecue joints cooking in the "Central Texas" style. www.lockhartsmokehouse.com/Y'all are going to be a great Austin cover band in a few years. ;D Also, your statistics on the percentage of white residents in suburban Dallas counties are off by a lot: Collin 62% Denton 63% Rockwall 73% Also: Harris County (Houston): 33% white, 41% Hispanic, and 19% black. Dallas County: 33% white, 38% Hispanic, 23% black. Harris County, presidential election: Obama 49.4%, Romney 49.3% Dallas County, presidential election: Obama 57.1%, Romney 41.7% |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,911
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Post by DFW HOYA on Nov 8, 2012 10:39:20 GMT -5
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Nov 8, 2012 10:45:38 GMT -5
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Nov 8, 2012 10:49:36 GMT -5
What can I say? We have growing suburbs now. (Also, I think you may be reading the number on the Census data pages next to "white persons" instead of "white persons not of Hispanic origin.") quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/48121.html |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,480
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Post by TC on Nov 8, 2012 11:17:16 GMT -5
I actually would argue these are precisely right-wing values, just not Republican ones which is why there's a whole wing of the Republican party being alienated right now by a voice that's get louder from a voting population getting smaller. I would argue that they are small-government values, but not in any way, shape, or form right-wing ones. Say we use AustinHoya's definition of "center-right" as how we compare to the rest of the world, which is a perfectly legitimate way to look at it - in the rest of the world are gay rights and marijuana legalization supported by countries that are to the left of us, or countries that are to the right? |
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 8, 2012 13:32:47 GMT -5
The Republicans have not nominated a conservative during the last fourteen election cycles with the exception of Goldwater in 1964 and, to a lesser extent, Reagan in 80 and 84 (to a lesser extent since he ran up a big decifit for that time). We've had Nixon three times, Ford, Bush 1 twice, Dole, Bush 2 twice, McCain and Romney, all of whom were moderates. Which of the candidates in the primary would have qualified as a conservative? Why don't you tell me which of the ones I listed, plus Eisenhower which I failed to mention, you consider to be conservative and why? |
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hoyatables
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,606
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Post by hoyatables on Nov 8, 2012 13:56:04 GMT -5
Which of the candidates in the primary would have qualified as a conservative? Why don't you tell me which of the ones I listed, plus Eisenhower which I failed to mention, you consider to be conservative and why? To be fair, I'm not sure that many of the recent Democratic presidents over that time period were "liberal." Most presidents are moderate - it comes with the territory. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,234
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Post by hoya9797 on Nov 8, 2012 14:08:25 GMT -5
Which of the candidates in the primary would have qualified as a conservative? Why don't you tell me which of the ones I listed, plus Eisenhower which I failed to mention, you consider to be conservative and why? I'm not sure I understand. Why is that relevant to my question? I'm interested to know which of the available options were conservative. Maybe it's none of them. I don't know. I'm not even sure what it means to be a conservative these days. |
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Nov 8, 2012 20:06:33 GMT -5
Why don't you tell me which of the ones I listed, plus Eisenhower which I failed to mention, you consider to be conservative and why? I'm not sure I understand. Why is that relevant to my question? I'm interested to know which of the available options were conservative. Maybe it's none of them. I don't know. I'm not even sure what it means to be a conservative these days. I gave a long list of Republican nominees that were, with few exceptions, moderate, in order to make the point that Republicans have been putting up candidates that were not conservatives. Yet the prevailing discussions seem to be that the Repubs need to move more to the center with their nominations if they hope to be elected in the future. I'm merely stating that prevailing view does not have history to back it up. You counter by asking about those who did not get the nomination, a question that has no bearing on my observation. So I chose not to answer your question. Likewise, you are certainly free not to answer mine. |
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398
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Post by hoyainspirit on Nov 8, 2012 20:49:30 GMT -5
The perception of the Rep. party as a whole is as important as the perception of the candidate, and the party at this point in time, 2012, just seems so extreme. Interesting article. Adviser: Romney "shellshocked" by loss |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,480
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Post by TC on Nov 8, 2012 22:24:14 GMT -5
The thing that really blows my mind about this election is that the Romney camp all drank the party-ID/turnout Kool-Aid and they were absolutely confident they were going to win - even with all the polling and the quants and the betting markets all saying they wouldn't.
They applied for a fireworks permit over Boston Harbor (http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/11/08/mitt-romney-planned-boston-harbor-fireworks-show-that-was-scotched-election-loss/qmgtVKPq4zNnDyb9FbLWeJ/story.html), didn't write a concession speech - I know there was the whole fake "momentum" nonsense thing they tried to project to grab bandwagon-jumping undecideds, and the whole Pennsylvania Hail Mary when they figured out Ohio was just not going to happen - but given what's come out from their campaign it's like they were either in total denial that they were losing or that they really actually though they were going to win against all evidence.
Meanwhile, the Obama camp reportedly had nailed the vote percentages of each swing state to within .1 of a percent.
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,458
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 9, 2012 0:59:25 GMT -5
Total denial or arrogance and a sense of entitlement, i.e., "I can't believe I can lose to that guy." The clown show that passed for the Republican primary certainly didn't help
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quickplay
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 733
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Post by quickplay on Nov 9, 2012 1:33:47 GMT -5
I hope if the Republican party goes through some serious adjustments it's not until after they get to the bottom of the Benghazi situation!
Right guys!?? Remember, it's an actual serious important thing that we are concerned about and NOT just a cynical calculated political sideshow! Anyone?? Bueller?
1) The deficit/debt are either the most important issues or they aren't. Compromise on revenue while you push for your spending cuts. Do not expect to be taken seriously if you claim something is the #1 national security issue but it can only be solved the exact way you want.
2) Say goodbye to the fundies. Being anti-gay is a one way ticket to irrelevance. If you are truly pro-life, support contraceptive measures. Evolution is only a theory. So is gravity. Welcome to the present.
3) Republicans who work with Democrats on issues of agreement should not have their Republican purity questioned. Find solutions where you can and work on them.
4) The outrage machine has to be scaled back a bit - if Obama is this dangerous unamerican socialist marxist anti-colonial apologizer that threatens our great nation and everything he does is horrible, where does that leave you when he's re-elected?
5) Feel free to take any of the (numerous) horrible, corrupt Democrats down with you as you join the 21st century.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,480
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Post by TC on Nov 9, 2012 10:01:29 GMT -5
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Nov 9, 2012 14:19:17 GMT -5
www.economist.com/news/leaders/21565955-budget-deal-makes-sense-re-elected-president-his-opponents-his-country-and"But what about the Republicans? Their script is depressingly easy to write. The party’s leaders will once again conclude that they lost because their candidate was not a genuine conservative, and vow to find the real thing next time. Possible future leaders like Paul Ryan, this year’s vice-presidential candidate, will head to the right in preparation for the 2016 primaries. Compromise with Mr Obama will be treason.
If the Republicans do that they will be abandoning all electoral sense. They managed to lose an election again in a country where conservatives still handily outnumber liberals by lumbering Mr Romney with extremist positions, such as rejecting any budget deal involving tax rises even if spending cuts were ten times greater. Their obsession with abortion and gay marriage seems ever more out of touch with women and young people. And their harshness towards illegal immigrants cost them the growing Latino vote, 71% of which went to Mr Obama. Plenty of independent voters, and this newspaper, yearn for a more pragmatic Republican Party. Doing a deal on the deficit with Mr Obama would signal its rebirth."
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,604
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Post by prhoya on Nov 9, 2012 18:28:43 GMT -5
More entertaining weekend reading... (two drinks is enough  ) |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,458
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 10, 2012 8:49:21 GMT -5
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Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,928
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Post by Filo on Nov 19, 2012 15:22:16 GMT -5
The Rubio quote about the age of the earth is getting a lot of play, which is unfortunate for him since he came across as almost hip in the rest of the article.
The GOP needs an infusion of youth and charisma, and he may fit the bill. But with that blurb about the age of the earth, he provides yet another example of why his party is in trouble i.e. he competely ignores science and acts like there is a legitimate question over the age of the earth just to pander to that small faction of the right that has been discussed here.
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