Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 11, 2017 11:19:38 GMT -5
Wall didn't show up for the biggest game of his life. Can't blame others.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 11, 2017 12:03:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I personally don't take kindly to team mates who are not "we as a team," and start caving in to the pressure and frustration to start dissecting and criticizing the team or individual player/positions etc. Personally, that does not resonate well with me. I wouldn't go so far as to call him an idiot, though. Just a little frustrated.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 11, 2017 12:25:22 GMT -5
Like I said in a previous post in this thread, Wall is a horrible team leader. He could have recruited Paul George quietly and out of the media like Harden did CP3 without throwing a teammate under the bus. Wall has reportedly had issues with Beal in the past and now throwing heavy shade at a vastly improving Otto Porter. Wall's constantly worried about other people's earnings is the only reason I believe the Wizards offered him that contract extension as they know that it would be a big issue to him that Otto is making more money than him, even though that just a contract timing issue.
Wall is highly overrated and is in no way worth a 40 plus million dollar annual salary. He's an All Star in the East because the East has lacked overall talent at the PG position for years. Damian Lillard is a way better PG than Wall and he can't even make All Star team consistently in the West. Wall doesn't make the Wizards a championship contending team, he doesn't sell tickets as the Wizards were in the 20's in attendance, he's got me first attitude which is fully evident when you watch him play and when he speaks to the media. Wall is extremely insecure and won't let anyone outshine him consistently. He will hold back both Beal and Porters overall development.
If I was Leonsis I would trade Wall to a team with a lot of high level young talent and draft picks and build around Beal and Porter in hopes of contending after the Warriors run is over.
I like having Otto in DC but he might have been better served going to Brooklyn to play with their young core and reaching his full potential vs staying with Wall.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Jul 11, 2017 13:59:48 GMT -5
I'll take some of both sides, as we were taught in the SFS. Wall should have kept his mouth shut, but is probably right that a third big contract to Otto doesn't get the Wiz closer to the finals.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 11, 2017 14:08:53 GMT -5
Like I said in a previous post in this thread, Wall is a horrible team leader. He could have recruited Paul George quietly and out of the media like Harden did CP3 without throwing a teammate under the bus. Wall has reportedly had issues with Beal in the past and now throwing heavy shade at a vastly improving Otto Porter. Wall's constantly worried about other people's earnings is the only reason I believe the Wizards offered him that contract extension as they know that it would be a big issue to him that Otto is making more money than him, even though that just a contract timing issue. Wall is highly overrated and is in no way worth a 40 plus million dollar annual salary. He's an All Star in the East because the East has lacked overall talent at the PG position for years. Damian Lillard is a way better PG than Wall and he can't even make All Star team consistently in the West. Wall doesn't make the Wizards a championship contending team, he doesn't sell tickets as the Wizards were in the 20's in attendance, he's got me first attitude which is fully evident when you watch him play and when he speaks to the media. Wall is extremely insecure and won't let anyone outshine him consistently. He will hold back both Beal and Porters overall development. If I was Leonsis I would trade Wall to a team with a lot of high level young talent and draft picks and build around Beal and Porter in hopes of contending after the Warriors run is over. I like having Otto in DC but he might have been better served going to Brooklyn to play with their young core and reaching his full potential vs staying with Wall. I don't know about all that. I have to disagree. Wall mean mugs with the best of them and he must be infuriating to fans of other teams. He says some crazy things and is super intense...but he lives and dies on that court every day and he makes players around him better. Much better. His stats speak for themselves, but I think it is insane to suggest that he's overrated. If anything he's been overlooked or underestimated. Lilliard? LOLZ.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 11, 2017 14:22:23 GMT -5
Saying that Paul George is better than Otto is a fact, and I love Otto and think he's absolutely worth the deal he just signed.
Just seems like a non-issue. Wall can be prickly, but he plays his butt off, does good work in the community, and has generally been a stand up guy. I'm still a fan. He also helped make Otto a really rich man by setting him up for a lot of open corner threes...
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 11, 2017 14:23:09 GMT -5
Wow just saw we got people out here saying Dame Lillard is way better than John Wall. Ummmm, no.
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beenaround
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Post by beenaround on Jul 11, 2017 14:28:05 GMT -5
Wall is a great player. The point is that it is highly unusual to mention a current teammate by name, as not being good enough to help bring a title. Praise Paul George, recruit Paul George, tell your buddies that Otto is not good enough..but say it publicly? Do not get it. And while players normally throw out a tweet congratulating teammates on big paydays...Wall doing the opposite.
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95hoya
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Post by 95hoya on Jul 11, 2017 14:29:55 GMT -5
Wow just saw we got people out here saying Dame Lillard is way better than John Wall. Ummmm, no. Yeah that's just laughably wrong. John Wall just helped Otto Porter make 100M. Almost all of Porter's 3s are catch and shoot opportunities, most of them from Wall. Wall statistically ranks among the best at creating catch and shoot opportunities for teammates. Those happen to be the most efficient shots in basketball. Otto can't get too upset since Wall helped fill his pockets.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 11, 2017 15:39:10 GMT -5
Like I said before, if I was Otto, I would be upset. There is something classless in commenting openly like that about a current team mate.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 11, 2017 21:05:33 GMT -5
Wow just saw we got people out here saying Dame Lillard is way better than John Wall. Ummmm, no. Yeah that's just laughably wrong. John Wall just helped Otto Porter make 100M. Almost all of Porter's 3s are catch and shoot opportunities, most of them from Wall. Wall statistically ranks among the best at creating catch and shoot opportunities for teammates. Those happen to be the most efficient shots in basketball. Otto can't get too upset since Wall helped fill his pockets. That comment is somewhat disrespectful to the hard work and grind that Otto Porter has put in. Your comment almost sounds as if he wasn't playing with Wall he wouldn't have earned his money. If anything Porter is the most self made player in the NBA. Not a product of the spring/summer shoe circuit. Carried his college team to a conference title and a top 10 regular season finish, playing a dying style of basketball that as great as he was might've limited his greatness. Was drafted 3rd in the draft. I say all that to say that Porter wasn't a sister of the poor undrafted player that Wall prompted upright and made him a player out of nowhere. Otto Porter filled his own pockets by his hard work and showing that he can excel in his role with Wizards! Other teams noticed his value, how it translates and offered him the max. The Wizards made the mistake of not just locking him and decided to match and that's why in 3 years he will be leaving for another team and the Wizards will regret this summer much the same way Utah regrets their actions in the summer of 2014.
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tashoya
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Post by tashoya on Jul 11, 2017 21:27:47 GMT -5
Wall distributes well and got Otto looks. And, to his credit, Otto became a better spot-up shooter. Otto should be and can be more than that, however, on the offensive side of the ball. That's where the Beal/Wall show hurts him a bit. Otto just needs to continue to work on the things that will help his team and he's shown he'll do that. That's incredibly valuable.
Regardless, it's not like Otto is getting the money he's going to get because he's only worth that contract to Washington. If that were the case, the Wiz wouldn't have to match. Otto earned it and it always helps to play with a PG who distributes and puts guys in position to succeed. Wall is good at that. He's less good at continuing to do that with the game hanging in the balance. Great players want the ball but great players also make great decisions with it. Wall needs a bit of work on that last part when the pucker factor is high in a big game.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jul 12, 2017 5:07:55 GMT -5
Wall needs to be quiet and not say everything that's on his mind. He wants the world to celebrate him...it's always look at me. I'm great. He's good not great, and not much of a leader. He does have some god given skills. He had thrust-upon leadership coming out of college into the league. He's growing slowly, and not fast enough. He needs a mentor! John needs to refine that jump shot, and look at film to see where he's most effective! He really does not help that team's culture at all. Trade him while he is of some value....I eXpeCt folKs to disagree with this last statement LOL.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jul 12, 2017 10:55:02 GMT -5
Did Wall get a promotion to the Washington's front office that we did hear about?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 12, 2017 11:36:09 GMT -5
So Otto is 10X the asset that Jeff is? It's hard to make that comparison. Otto Porter is 24, Green is 30. Has Porter been the better player the last two years? Yes. Don't forget that Porter's deal is for four years. Even if a 24 year old Porter isn't 10x better than Green now, a 28 year old Porter is likely 10x better than a 34 year old Green would be at the end of the deal. Green has made a ton of money over his career. While it would be great to see him do better this season and stick around for a few more years, his most productive years are behind him. Given his heart situation, and all that, I think Green has done fine for himself.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 12, 2017 11:48:24 GMT -5
Wall needs to be quiet and not say everything that's on his mind. He wants the world to celebrate him...it's always look at me. I'm great. He's good not great, and not much of a leader. He does have some god given skills. He had thrust-upon leadership coming out of college into the league. He's growing slowly, and not fast enough. He needs a mentor! John needs to refine that jump shot, and look at film to see where he's most effective! He really does not help that team's culture at all. Trade him while he is of some value....I eXpeCt folKs to disagree with this last statement LOL. Agree 💯 with every word you typed DCHoya! Once the Wizards give him the 170 plus million (4 year extension) he will be impossible to move that contract while hamstringing the franchise and salary cap. In 3 years Otto will be entering his Prime and could develop into a player with the type of impact of Khwai Leonard, Paul George or Gordon Hayward.
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nychoya3
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Post by nychoya3 on Jul 12, 2017 11:52:47 GMT -5
I love Jeff Green but he's a wing who shoots <30 percent from three at this point. I know he's been banged up, but honestly if he doesn't have a good year this year, it might be time to call it a career. Don't think there's going to be a lot of interest.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 12, 2017 12:01:47 GMT -5
Wall needs to be quiet and not say everything that's on his mind. He wants the world to celebrate him...it's always look at me. I'm great. He's good not great, and not much of a leader. He does have some god given skills. He had thrust-upon leadership coming out of college into the league. He's growing slowly, and not fast enough. He needs a mentor! John needs to refine that jump shot, and look at film to see where he's most effective! He really does not help that team's culture at all. Trade him while he is of some value....I eXpeCt folKs to disagree with this last statement LOL. Agree 💯 with every word you typed DCHoya! Once the Wizards give him the 170 plus million (4 year extension) he will be impossible to move that contract while hamstringing the franchise and salary cap. In 3 years Otto will be entering his Prime and could develop into a player with the type of impact of Khwai Leonard, Paul George or Gordon Hayward. Um, you know Wall is only 26...or two years older than Otto. That four year extension would also cover his "prime."
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 12, 2017 12:02:30 GMT -5
So Otto is 10X the asset that Jeff is? It's hard to make that comparison. Otto Porter is 24, Green is 30. Has Porter been the better player the last two years? Yes. Don't forget that Porter's deal is for four years. Even if a 24 year old Porter isn't 10x better than Green now, a 28 year old Porter is likely 10x better than a 34 year old Green would be at the end of the deal. Green has made a ton of money over his career. While it would be great to see him do better this season and stick around for a few more years, his most productive years are behind him. Given his heart situation, and all that, I think Green has done fine for himself. My only question with Jeff Green decision to take the minimum with Cleveland is that if he held out a while and let the smoke clear with the moves that are still to be made (Carmelo Anthony Domino etc.). What if Melodrama is traded to Cleveland at some point in the next season and Jeff is moved in the trade or worse still on the cavs roster after the trade. There go his minutes. I think Jeff could have gotten more money and better opportunity if he held out a while longer. He could have taken the veterans minimum at anytime. 30 years old interms of the NBA isn't old, it's considered smack in the middle of prime years (28-32). Jeff has made good money in terms of NBA money but Otto's new 4 year contract alone will be more than Jeff has made in his entire career.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Jul 12, 2017 12:26:31 GMT -5
H4E your disdain for JWall is all over this thread. I don't agree with what Wall said but over the last 2.5 yrs he has been in the convo for best PG in the league. I don't think that he made Otto his new contract but you have to admit that it's a lot easier to shoot when you have 5ft between you and your defender because the PG has drawn so much attention....Dame Lilliard? Nope....Westbrook, Harden, Paul, Curry......that's the list of clearly better PGs. There are another 3-5 that JWall is in the group with...but his play last year gives him an edge over Dame, Kyrie,....etc...IMO
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