Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 12, 2017 12:58:58 GMT -5
Agree 💯 with every word you typed DCHoya! Once the Wizards give him the 170 plus million (4 year extension) he will be impossible to move that contract while hamstringing the franchise and salary cap. In 3 years Otto will be entering his Prime and could develop into a player with the type of impact of Khwai Leonard, Paul George or Gordon Hayward. Um, you know Wall is only 26...or two years older than Otto. That four year extension would also cover his "prime." Oh I know his age. I also know Wall's not a Franchise Super Star that puts you over the top. If I were the Celtics, I would be very hesitant but more willing to back up the brinks truck for Isaiah Thomas than I would for Wall. I just don't see giving 170 million dollars over 4 years to a PG who can't shoot in a league where shooting at that position is a prerequisite skill needed to excel and obviously not a team leader a good investment.
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Cambridge
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Canes Pugnaces
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Post by Cambridge on Jul 12, 2017 14:01:20 GMT -5
If I were the Celtics, I would be very hesitant but more willing to back up the brinks truck for Isaiah Thomas than I would for Wall. This might be the most insane thing written on this site.
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beenaround
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,476
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Post by beenaround on Jul 12, 2017 15:02:30 GMT -5
Yeah. Cmon. Wall is a great player. Isiah Thomas gets very few assists..just a gunner and cannot defend. Wall is clearly better. That said..his comments are all throwing shade on Otto and are completely inappropriate. Period.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jul 12, 2017 15:07:04 GMT -5
If I were the Celtics, I would be very hesitant but more willing to back up the brinks truck for Isaiah Thomas than I would for Wall. This might be the most insane thing written on this site. exactly. you've discredited yourself completely. Two true statements: 1) Otto Porter deserves his contract in light of today's salary cap, focus on analytics, and evolution of the way the game is played; 2) Otto Porter benefits from playing with John Wall, who is a perennial All-Star, Top 5 PG, and elite-level two-way player. Now, Otto's usage is low, and his efficiency is high - both of which can be tied back to John Wall for better or worse. Wall has incredible vision but is also a ball dominant guard. Beal also takes a lot of shots. There aren't that many shots for Otto, but that's why he's such a perfect complementary piece for the House of Guards. He doesn't demand more shots, and he makes the most of the shots he gets. Now, he should be getting more of Keef's shots, but that's a different debate. Edit: I'll add that I was extremely disappointed in Wall's comments about Otto/George. To say the Wiz are set at the 4 and 5, but not the 3 is laughable, and there was, undoubtedly, a more diplomatic and more accurate way to say what he was trying to say, i.e., having George at the 3 would make the Wiz better. It was an unnecessary shot at Otto, whether intentional or just dumb.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,649
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jul 12, 2017 18:19:56 GMT -5
Dumb people say dumb things. Dumber people say them publicly.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,429
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 12, 2017 18:47:01 GMT -5
It's hard to make that comparison. Otto Porter is 24, Green is 30. Has Porter been the better player the last two years? Yes. Don't forget that Porter's deal is for four years. Even if a 24 year old Porter isn't 10x better than Green now, a 28 year old Porter is likely 10x better than a 34 year old Green would be at the end of the deal. Green has made a ton of money over his career. While it would be great to see him do better this season and stick around for a few more years, his most productive years are behind him. Given his heart situation, and all that, I think Green has done fine for himself. My only question with Jeff Green decision to take the minimum with Cleveland is that if he held out a while and let the smoke clear with the moves that are still to be made (Carmelo Anthony Domino etc.). What if Melodrama is traded to Cleveland at some point in the next season and Jeff is moved in the trade or worse still on the cavs roster after the trade. There go his minutes. I think Jeff could have gotten more money and better opportunity if he held out a while longer. He could have taken the veterans minimum at anytime. 30 years old interms of the NBA isn't old, it's considered smack in the middle of prime years (28-32). Jeff has made good money in terms of NBA money but Otto's new 4 year contract alone will be more than Jeff has made in his entire career. Melodrama. If there were a laughing so hard I'm crying emoji, I would have clicked on that.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,429
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Post by hoyarooter on Jul 12, 2017 18:47:48 GMT -5
Dumb people say dumb things. Dumber people say them publicly. John Wall should write his comments about Otto on the john wall. That's where they belong.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 12, 2017 20:37:39 GMT -5
Who cares. Otto is here to stay. He's basically untradeable now.
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Nevada Hoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 18,667
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jul 12, 2017 20:56:14 GMT -5
Just remember that Jeff's contract will be four times the amount Aaron Judge is making this year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jul 12, 2017 21:14:27 GMT -5
30 years old interms of the NBA isn't old, it's considered smack in the middle of prime years (28-32). Jeff has made good money in terms of NBA money but Otto's new 4 year contract alone will be more than Jeff has made in his entire career. This is right. I think Jeff Green's problem isn't so much his age, as much as the fact that he doesn't really have one elite skill that can take him into a longer career. For example, if he was a defensive specialist or a three point specialist, you could easily see him playing into his later thirties. It's true Otto's contract is huge, but that's because of the NBA media deals, increased cap, etc. If Green was starting his career now he'd make tons more.
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,407
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Post by iowa80 on Jul 12, 2017 21:25:37 GMT -5
This might be the most insane thing written on this site. exactly. you've discredited yourself completely. Two true statements: 1) Otto Porter deserves his contract in light of today's salary cap, focus on analytics, and evolution of the way the game is played; 2) Otto Porter benefits from playing with John Wall, who is a perennial All-Star, Top 5 PG, and elite-level two-way player. Now, Otto's usage is low, and his efficiency is high - both of which can be tied back to John Wall for better or worse. Wall has incredible vision but is also a ball dominant guard. Beal also takes a lot of shots. There aren't that many shots for Otto, but that's why he's such a perfect complementary piece for the House of Guards. He doesn't demand more shots, and he makes the most of the shots he gets. Now, he should be getting more of Keef's shots, but that's a different debate. Edit: I'll add that I was extremely disappointed in Wall's comments about Otto/George. To say the Wiz are set at the 4 and 5, but not the 3 is laughable, and there was, undoubtedly, a more diplomatic and more accurate way to say what he was trying to say, i.e., having George at the 3 would make the Wiz better. It was an unnecessary shot at Otto, whether intentional or just dumb. I'm not convinced that #1 is unequivocally "true," although I agree with virtually everything else. It strikes me as assuming that roster construction does not enter into determining who is "deserving." My knowledge of the cap is limited enough where I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of this, but Otto's contract locks the Wiz into being a very good team but provides no path to a title. If the former is good enough (and it should be for many), I get it. If a ring is the goal, not so much.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 12, 2017 22:12:46 GMT -5
30 years old interms of the NBA isn't old, it's considered smack in the middle of prime years (28-32). Jeff has made good money in terms of NBA money but Otto's new 4 year contract alone will be more than Jeff has made in his entire career. This is right. I think Jeff Green's problem isn't so much his age, as much as the fact that he doesn't really have one elite skill that can take him into a longer career. For example, if he was a defensive specialist or a three point specialist, you could easily see him playing into his later thirties. It's true Otto's contract is huge, but that's because of the NBA media deals, increased cap, etc. If Green was starting his career now he'd make tons more.I'm aware of that Otto's earnings are partly due to timing matching the huge boost in salary caps. When Green was 24, players salaries weren't anywhere near what they are now. My point was more of that Jeff has the athletism, similar skill set and talent of an Iguodola or Deng and should easily be making about 15 million a year. Unfortunately Green got hurt early last season and never got his back right heading into free agency. Even with all that said and with all the money be tossed around in free agency, I'm a little shocked he took a 1 year vet minimum and couldn't get at least a 1 year 6-8 million dollar deal somewhere else in the association.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
Posts: 5,448
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jul 12, 2017 22:25:29 GMT -5
Arrogance and immaturity are a deadly combination. I will revisit this conversation on Wall when his arrogance and immaturity kills this team and his time in DC ends in a complete dumpster fire.
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chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
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Post by chep3 on Jul 12, 2017 23:37:31 GMT -5
This is right. I think Jeff Green's problem isn't so much his age, as much as the fact that he doesn't really have one elite skill that can take him into a longer career. For example, if he was a defensive specialist or a three point specialist, you could easily see him playing into his later thirties. It's true Otto's contract is huge, but that's because of the NBA media deals, increased cap, etc. If Green was starting his career now he'd make tons more.I'm aware of that Otto's earnings are partly due to timing matching the huge boost in salary caps. When Green was 24, players salaries weren't anywhere near what they are now. My point was more of that Jeff has the athletism, similar skill set and talent of an Iguodola or Deng and should easily be making about 15 million a year. Unfortunately Green got hurt early last season and never got his back right heading into free agency. Even with all that said and with all the money be tossed around in free agency, I'm a little shocked he took a 1 year vet minimum and couldn't get at least a 1 year 6-8 million dollar deal somewhere else in the association. As much as I love Jeff, he has not been remotely close to the level of an Iguodala or Deng. He's been pretty bad for the last 4 years, and has never been the defensive player that those two guys are. He's a career 33% shooter from 3, doesn't give you much on D or on the boards. Agree that he could've been as good as those guys, but whether it was the heart issue or something else, he hasn't been more than just a guy for several years.
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 13, 2017 17:09:24 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
Moderator
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Post by DanMcQ on Jul 13, 2017 19:06:31 GMT -5
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,551
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Post by tashoya on Jul 13, 2017 20:46:22 GMT -5
Congratulations, Otto! I'm really happy to see his hard work paying off for him. His bumpy start as a pro is far in the rearview of, what's likely, a pretty sweet ride! I have no doubt that, big payday or small, Otto will continue to grow and improve and I'm excited to see him do just that.
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Post by professorhoya on Jul 13, 2017 21:53:54 GMT -5
exactly. you've discredited yourself completely. Two true statements: 1) Otto Porter deserves his contract in light of today's salary cap, focus on analytics, and evolution of the way the game is played; 2) Otto Porter benefits from playing with John Wall, who is a perennial All-Star, Top 5 PG, and elite-level two-way player. Now, Otto's usage is low, and his efficiency is high - both of which can be tied back to John Wall for better or worse. Wall has incredible vision but is also a ball dominant guard. Beal also takes a lot of shots. There aren't that many shots for Otto, but that's why he's such a perfect complementary piece for the House of Guards. He doesn't demand more shots, and he makes the most of the shots he gets. Now, he should be getting more of Keef's shots, but that's a different debate. Edit: I'll add that I was extremely disappointed in Wall's comments about Otto/George. To say the Wiz are set at the 4 and 5, but not the 3 is laughable, and there was, undoubtedly, a more diplomatic and more accurate way to say what he was trying to say, i.e., having George at the 3 would make the Wiz better. It was an unnecessary shot at Otto, whether intentional or just dumb. I'm not convinced that #1 is unequivocally "true," although I agree with virtually everything else. It strikes me as assuming that roster construction does not enter into determining who is "deserving." My knowledge of the cap is limited enough where I'm reluctant to make a big deal out of this, but Otto's contract locks the Wiz into being a very good team but provides no path to a title. If the former is good enough (and it should be for many), I get it. If a ring is the goal, not so much. Here's the thing though. If you let Otto walk for free you are basically crippling the Wizards future. It's like what happened with the Jazz and Gordon Heyward. Utah is screwed now and received nothing for Heyward. Even without Otto the Wizards would be too good (especially in the East) to ever get a high lottery pick. I'd say the Wizards are pretty close. Maybe one more player away. This is a much more realistic path then those who actually thought and were counting on Durant coming home to D.C.
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deacon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,850
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Post by deacon on Jul 13, 2017 23:04:06 GMT -5
Just FYI, JTIII is doing studio analysis tonight on NBA TV.
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Post by glidehoyas (Inactive) on Jul 14, 2017 8:11:36 GMT -5
Just FYI, JTIII is doing studio analysis tonight on NBA TV. Man, so refreshing to see my man Jt3 back at work doing something he loves.
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