DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 20, 2011 2:03:50 GMT -5
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 20, 2011 4:51:21 GMT -5
I'm not sure how I like trading Hollis, but the player coming in for JC looks like he can take the BE physicality ;D
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 20, 2011 9:56:24 GMT -5
This thread now has the second most views ever of any thread on the basketball board, if the sort is working right. Only the NBA Hoyas thread has more.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 20, 2011 10:04:48 GMT -5
Hollis looks like he's put on some muscle weight. I'm glad to see he's doing it while at GU. I bet all of the NBA people he met in camp told him to put on that weight if he is serious about playing pro ball. |
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MCIGuy
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Anyone here? What am I supposed to update?
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 20, 2011 10:18:58 GMT -5
Hollis looks like he's put on some muscle weight. I'm glad to see he's doing it while at GU. I bet all of the NBA people he met in camp told him to put on that weight if he is serious about playing pro ball. Maybe those same folks should do an intervention on behalf of that Lamb guy from UConn. Oh, wait. He is projected as a top five pick now. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 20, 2011 11:08:15 GMT -5
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Hoya LNU
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Post by Hoya LNU on Aug 20, 2011 11:12:37 GMT -5
I should probably just shut up, but again, you do know that there is a time difference, right? It's 6:20 in the morning there. For those saying there won't be an apology, please note this: "Although they have yet to issue one for Thursday's incident, the CBA has issued an apology for the behavior of its players after each of the past altercations." www.nbcwashington.com/blogs/capital-games/Georgetown-Brawl-Not-The-First-For-China-128022218.html?updateMaybe we should wait and see how this plays out before we start throwing about uninformed comments. OK, so we've waited several days to see how this played out and here's the official Chinese response. From the Embassy in Washington: We believe the organizers of the matches and the two teams will address the issue properly, the sportsmanship and people-to-people friendship the matches are meant to represent will prevail,” said the Chinese spokesman, Wang Baodong, in an e-mail. From the Chinese MFA: “My understanding is that it’s all cleared up,” Cui Tiankai, the vice foreign minister, was quoted as saying about Thursday’s events. “We’re pleased about this outcome.” Certainly no, "Hey, sorry, we were the hosts and it was poor behavior by a lot of people, including our team, our officials, our security, and some of our fans." Not even a simple "We too regret that the incident took place and look forward to (whatever)." Certainly nothing from the PLA or the team. Not one word. Nor from the press, because, well, pretty much anything that was published was ripped down and anything further suppressed. I know the teams met and had private discussions about which we have no idea what was said. I get some of the domestic and international dynamic between the PLA, the civilian government, and the Chinese people. I understand some of the Chinese cultural nuances of losing and saving face. Several posters have explained these things fairly eloquently. I am, however, tired of "cultural norms" being used to explain away and justify unacceptable behavior. Acceptance of bad behavior breeds and encourages continued bad behavior. Diplomatic press releases (maybe I'm in the minority reading them as somewhat coddling and obsequious) on the part of Georgetown are read by the Chinese public, who then balances their understanding of what took place by...nothing from their Government. What's their conclusion? That there's a dangerous dynamic between their military and civilian leadership? That their national responsibility has not kept pace with the explosive growth of their military, industrial and political power? That their proud history of extraordinary hospitality is being trampled by their government? Or rather that such questions don't exist, because any seed of such discussion is stifled by the regime to protect itself? I couldn't be prouder of Coach Thompson and the team, and very happy to be a Hoya right now. Wish I had the same positive outlook on the future of US-PRC relations. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 20, 2011 11:34:34 GMT -5
Hollis looks like he's put on some muscle weight. I'm glad to see he's doing it while at GU. I bet all of the NBA people he met in camp told him to put on that weight if he is serious about playing pro ball. Maybe those same folks should do an intervention on behalf of that Lamb guy from UConn. Oh, wait. He is projected as a top five pick now. Whether he's projected as a lottery pick or not, he's probably putting on the pounds too. I'm sure no player aspires to go to the League and get his a@@ kicked around. |
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Aug 20, 2011 12:27:30 GMT -5
Interesting to read that GU played the first Chinese team in 1978 over here. |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 20, 2011 12:45:03 GMT -5
Interesting to read that GU played the first Chinese team in 1978 over here. I worked the stats crew for that game at the lovely DC Armory. China had what at the time was the biggest center I had ever seen. |
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mapei
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Post by mapei on Aug 20, 2011 13:46:02 GMT -5
On a bit of a tangent, does this suggest that Jason & Hollis will be co-captains this season?
And I think we have seen our starting lineup, which is the one that was most likely all along.
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 20, 2011 13:58:06 GMT -5
I was at that DC Armory game and the big Chinese center was named Mr. Mu" -- IIRC, he was 7' 7" and pushing 400 pounds and really ineffective.
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Aug 20, 2011 15:06:55 GMT -5
Dan and SS, who won the game at the Armory?
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Post by crashdavis on Aug 20, 2011 15:25:16 GMT -5
I was at that DC Armory game and the big Chinese center was named Mr. Mu" -- IIRC, he was 7' 7" and pushing 400 pounds and really ineffective. I'm guessing it would have been this guy : Mu Tiezhu www.thetallestman.com/mutiezhu.htm |
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Post by crashdavis on Aug 20, 2011 15:30:28 GMT -5
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Aug 20, 2011 17:15:56 GMT -5
The big guy was quite a load and had the flattest feet ever - ineffective is being kind.
China won fairly easily IIRC.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 20, 2011 18:17:27 GMT -5
Some additional thoughts, on the game, the crowd, and the Chinese reactions, from the same guy who provided the first game account: First, the game itself. We need to see the full video from the university at some point, not only to show the absurdity of the refereeing, but because there are two incredible highlight dunks that need to be shown- one by Hollis Thompson along the baseline over a Bayi defender, and a ridiculous one-handed Henry Sims alley-oop finish in traffic.
After the first quarter the offense settled down and we were executing really well. There were a few nice backdoor cuts set up by passes by Lubick in the high post. Hopkins was playing phenomenal interior defense and from memory appeared to be on the floor a lot- he was called for fouls on virtually every play but that happened to everyone. We substituted frantically because of all the foul trouble, following virtually every call. The second quarter was the highlight of our evening from my perspective- I remember Clark and Thompson hitting 3s that were set up by inside-outside ball movement. After the first shoving match broke out in the second quarter the Bayi coach called JT3 over and tried to make a show of shaking hands and putting the incident behind them.
We generally kept the momentum in the third, particularly early in the third. We scored a few times in transition after batted passes on the defensive end and leadout runs. We did have a hard time making interior passes at times and turned the ball over a bit, but it was clear momentum was with us, and we often were unguarded underneath for easy putbacks (not sure how many of those types of buckets we would get in Big East play). Bayi was also playing some decent interior defense though, and while we were fouled a ton, they did manage a few nice blocks from their big men as well.
It was later in the third when the intentional and flagrant fouls came out (and all of them were called against us, including the later technical against JT3 for stepping over the sideline). At one point they also warned Henry Sims about putting his hand in the net in the course of defending the play, warning that the next time he would draw a technical. One interesting sideshow occurred when one of the Bayi players had the ball batted out of his hands, yelled at the ref to call a foul, and then drew a technical and had to be restrained by a teammate. So it was an aggressive bunch that we were playing to begin with. Gene Wang commented later that the third quarter took an hour to play- that seems about right. The game started at 5:30 and I made my first phone call upon walking out after the brawl at 7:38, according to my phone. And Wang also highlighted the absolutely surreal moment with one of Bayi's bigs yelling at JT3 as play was ongoing, which was really a game-changing moment in my opinion- it was clear something larger was going wrong at that point.
On the final score: I wrote in my initial email that it ended in a tie, 64-64, following another intentional foul. Bayi did not shoot free throws after the brawl ensued to tie up the game- what I meant was that they tied the game up before the brawl ensued on what I remember as another intentional or flagrant foul call. Very willing to stand corrected on the exact sequence of events as this is from memory, but Bayi did not shoot free throws after the brawl. There was no question we were the better team throughout the majority of the game and our lead only shrunk with the intentional foul calls.
On the tension in the crowd: There appeared to be two segments of the crowd there at the game. One segment was probably composed of PLA members, family, and friends of the team- they had Bayi chants going at various times during the game. The other segment was just around and watching the game but didn't seem too partisan (the tickets were free). Total crowd size was about 2000 if I had to guess, of which 150-200 were Georgetown supporters, including some Chinese alumni wearing Hoyas gear. I was sitting four rows above the Georgetown entourage/alumni section, and if I had to guess there were about 30 other Westerners in the same general area. Even as the foul calls were mounting, the crowd was not tense. I was joking to several Chinese people around me (in Chinese) about the disparity in calls, they generally agreed, but no one was getting angry- we weren't separated, they were right behind us, and no one was even yelling. This is why it was really surprising to me when bottles came flying as the team started leaving the court after the brawl- my expectation was that this was from the PLA section to the left and across the arena from us, as there were no bottles thrown immediately in our vicinity.
Another unreported fact so far is that there were several other Chinese basketball teams and players in attendance at the game- I felt really short walking around the arena to buy popcorn, as you just don't see that many Chinese guys 6'6" or taller in one place- this may have explained why some people came out of the crowd or quickly off the bench during the brawl, even though they weren't on the team (but I don't really know). The Westerners in the crowd were kind of joking whether or not it would be safe to leave after the team had left the arena, but it was really no problem- no one was starting anything in our section of the stands and we just walked right out. One of the real surprises in retrospect was how the referees made almost no effort to stop the fight, which shows up clearly in the video coverage- they are just walking around while the situation spirals out of control.
I've heard a number of comments that suggest that this outcome might have been predetermined, given the intensity of the Bayi reactions throughout the game. It's hard to say; a better refereeing job probably produces a much calmer game (and Duke seemed to experience some of the same imbalance in calls at their game). And Bayi's history of engaging in fights emerged in media coverage fairly quickly; the Chinese blog reactions that I have seen were pretty negative toward Bayi as well. But once the situation was tense on the floor and shoving matches were starting, it was difficult to ignore the broader context that this was the PLA's team being beaten on the court and engaging in shoving matches with an American college team.
Without delving too deeply into Chinese domestic politics, there is generally strong Party/civilian control of the military, but this does not mean that the military and the civilian leadership share the same policy priorities or views concerning the importance and future of the US-China relationship and approaches in managing that relationship. The attempt to reestablish more direct channels for bilateral military-military relations this year has in part reflected some of these concerns about the PLA's more assertive voice in foreign policy in recent years, and the limitations of relying primarily upon engagement with China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs. The Hoyas may not have been set up to wander into this political divergence, but the way that the game developed, it was only natural for some of the broader political context to become relevant on the court and in the crowd, and even within different groups in the crowd, and the media response focusing on the dynamics of the relationship seems logical as well. At the very least, there was enough pressure from Chinese authorities on Bayi to force them into a post-game meeting to provide some reconciliation as the Hoyas tour continued to Shanghai. The other games should be interesting and hopefully uneventful...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 20, 2011 18:46:41 GMT -5
THB, thanks for the info.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 20, 2011 19:07:38 GMT -5
Great observations and insights, THB.
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Post by petabdoubleg on Aug 20, 2011 19:47:13 GMT -5
Thanks THB. That's awesome to hear about Jason and Hollis playing well...especially after seeing their leadership in going to make peace with Bayi. I look forward to seeing them take a bigger leadership role this year
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