DanMcQ
Moderator
Posts: 32,049
Member is Online
|
LeBron
Jul 11, 2010 11:34:59 GMT -5
Post by DanMcQ on Jul 11, 2010 11:34:59 GMT -5
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 10:44:29 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 12, 2010 10:44:29 GMT -5
Gilbert is a tool. From my perspective, the only thing LBJ is "guilty" of is putting himself first. The preposterousness that accompanied his announcement Thursday went well beyond him grabbing the spotlight and telling the world he was leaving Cleveland. The move continues to be portrayed by many in the media and by NBA fans as if he somehow he “owed” Cleveland and Dan Gilbert, something, that he didn’t properly show suitors respect by the way he chose to depart. I don't buy it. LeBron significantly raised the profile of that franchise during his 7 yrs there, not to mention raising Gilbert's net worth. To crack on him for leaving is just wrong, IMO. I can't fault a person in an employment situation for making the decision which suits him or her the best. That said, I can't wait to root against them every time they play, though I admit to some conflict because I like Wade and because of Zo's continued affiliation. One of the reasons sports are great is because they give us someone to root against with passion. The Heat, for me, now join that list, behind only the Yankees, Lakers, and Dook. Yeah, I pretty much agree with you here. I do think Lebron was poorly advised. I don't think he anticipated anything like the type of backlash and lambasting that he has received the past couple of days. I also think that he should have told Cleveland first, although I realize that in this day and age, it's almost impossible to ever tell anyone something in confidence and not have it leaked somehow. But the bottom line is that regardless of how the decision was announced, it was Lebron's to make. And he, along with Wade and Bosh made decisions that cost themselves millions of dollars. The figure that I heard was that combined, the three cost themselves $54 million. Now I know they can all still light their cigars with $100 and not even worry about it, but still, that is a chunk of change. Lastly, I have to give Chad Johnson -- sorry, I refuse to succumb to his egotistical nonsense and call him by his jersey number -- credit for one comment he made. He said that if the player leaves in free agency then he's a traitor, but if the team cuts a player then it's just a part of the business -- not profound, but an angle that does sometimes get lost in all the fluff and presentationl
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 15:25:57 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 12, 2010 15:25:57 GMT -5
Here's some of the fallout from the Miami 3:
Well, the Heat have freed up about $13 million under cap/luxury tax room. And, they have 3 of the best 15 guys in the NBA. But on the other hand, they really only have 4 guys on their roster. THey have Wade, Bosh and James of course, and Mario Chalmers. That's it! They have a sizable offer on the table for Mike Miller and are hoping to make him their "mid-level" player. The Heat are also very interested in Derek Fisher, but I just don't see that. I don't think they can find enough money for him, and I don't think he is so "ring obsessed," having gotten his already. Also, the Heat are "very interested" in keeping Udonis Haslem. I just don't see that happening. As much as I would love to see UD stay in Miami, there are just too many teams that could use him and can pay him a lot more money. Haslem made $7.1 million last year, but the guesses are that the Heat can only offer something like $8 or $9 million over 3 years, but teams like the Nets and Nuggets have already shown a lot of interest and estimates are in the $6 to $7 million per season. Now I know that James, Wade and Bosh can "short themselves" $10 or $15 million, but Haslem isn't in that same situation. I don't exactly know how this cap thing works, other than for each dollar over, the team must pay an additional dollar, but it seems like the Heat might have some trouble filling out their roster without going significantly over the limit.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 16:10:28 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 12, 2010 16:10:28 GMT -5
They just announced that Derek Fisher has turned down the Heat offer and will stay with the Lakers. More surprising, Udonis Haslem has left a lot more money on the table and has chosen to stay with the Heat. He clearly wants to be part of something special. Miller is purportedly close to accepting the Heat offer. If he does, the Heat will only need to fill out there roster with league minimum type guys. I think the pied piper in Miami is doing a fine job ... if you like Miami.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,438
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 18:29:30 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 12, 2010 18:29:30 GMT -5
Haslem is just the kind of blue collar guy the Heat need to go along with the Big 2 2/3. Now they need a few more.
|
|
Buckets
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,656
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 21:43:54 GMT -5
Post by Buckets on Jul 12, 2010 21:43:54 GMT -5
I never thought that Mike Miller would ever make this much of a difference on a team, but he's the perfect fit. I was holding out hope that if Miller went elsewhere, you could zone a lineup with Chalmers, Wade, and LeBron since none of them can really shoot. Miller can stroke it, and removes pretty much any doubt in my mind that this team is going to be nearly unstoppable offensively.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
LeBron
Jul 12, 2010 22:37:18 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 12, 2010 22:37:18 GMT -5
Fisher "isn't ring obsessed"? Wouldn't staying with the LAKERS mean he actually likes winning championships/playing for them--and attending rallies that actually celebrate what happened in the Playoffs-instead of a Free Agency Celebration that made 2 great players look like the 3rd guy on stage with them---a bunch of cornball doofus d-bags.
|
|
HoyaFanNY
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Never throw to the venus on a spider 3 Y banana!
Posts: 4,995
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 6:13:38 GMT -5
Post by HoyaFanNY on Jul 13, 2010 6:13:38 GMT -5
rumor is now that chris paul and melo want to join amare in ny.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 10:25:01 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 13, 2010 10:25:01 GMT -5
rumor is now that chris paul and melo want to join amare in ny.
They were talking about that last night on a local show. Supposedly they are considering forming their own "super team," but I think the rumors started because they were seen together. Of course, they were there for Melo's wedding I think, so that doesn't really tell us much.
RDF wrote:
Fisher "isn't ring obsessed"? Wouldn't staying with the LAKERS mean he actually likes winning championships/playing for them--and attending rallies that actually celebrate what happened in the Playoffs-instead of a Free Agency Celebration that made 2 great players look like the 3rd guy on stage with them---a bunch of cornball doofus d-bags.
You misunderstood my point. I was essentially pointing out two things:
1. Fisher already has his rings. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want to win or that he doesn't want another one, just that he won't be driven/focused/consumed by the ring at all costs approach that Wade, James and Bosh seem to have.
2. Also, he won't be as motivated to take the type of pay cut he would probably have to take to joing them in South Beach.
For the record, I'm not knocking him on either count.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 10:35:00 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 13, 2010 10:35:00 GMT -5
Fisher plays with a guy consumed to win championships and that message is conveyed to any/everyone he plays with--so I'd say that this false outlook about "joining forces with..." is some unwritten rule about what superstars should do. If you want to win a title--for some reason it's seen as "You have to be the star and have supporting cast"--which is a joke--you need to have great teammates--so Lebron shouldn't be criticized for leaving Cleveland to go to Miami--he should be criticized for how he handled the situation.
Now whether he/Wade are good enough is a different story--because this fallacy that Chris Bosh is a superstar is insane. When you've been in league and your team has been in Playoffs 3 times--never seen the 2nd round, and seen the lottery 5 times--you are NOT a superstar. Superstars carry their team past 1st Round--especially in Eastern Conference, and they do something of relevance when they get into the postseason. If anything--it's a new overhyped goon to laugh at come postseason-and only thing that would've been more ironic--if Bosh was from South Carolina--home of KG And Jermaine O'Neal--the "superstars" who were falsely reported as franchise players and were actually complimentary players, albeit KG is far and above the other 2--as O'Neal is a gutless coward and so is Bosh.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,438
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 12:43:46 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 13, 2010 12:43:46 GMT -5
Fisher plays with a guy consumed to win championships and that message is conveyed to any/everyone he plays with--so I'd say that this false outlook about "joining forces with..." is some unwritten rule about what superstars should do. If you want to win a title--for some reason it's seen as "You have to be the star and have supporting cast"--which is a joke--you need to have great teammates--so Lebron shouldn't be criticized for leaving Cleveland to go to Miami--he should be criticized for how he handled the situation. Now whether he/Wade are good enough is a different story--because this fallacy that Chris Bosh is a superstar is insane. When you've been in league and your team has been in Playoffs 3 times--never seen the 2nd round, and seen the lottery 5 times--you are NOT a superstar. Superstars carry their team past 1st Round--especially in Eastern Conference, and they do something of relevance when they get into the postseason. If anything--it's a new overhyped goon to laugh at come postseason-and only thing that would've been more ironic--if Bosh was from South Carolina--home of KG And Jermaine O'Neal--the "superstars" who were falsely reported as franchise players and were actually complimentary players, albeit KG is far and above the other 2--as O'Neal is a gutless coward and so is Bosh. Totally agree re LeBron, but I think that, at least outside of Cleveland, the criticism of LeBron is based on exactly that. It's certainly within his prerogative to change teams, but unfortunately, he handled it abysmally. I know that some of the criticism has been based on his joining Wade rather than continuing to be the top dog on his own team, say be going to the Bulls. That may be true, but so what? Perhaps that affects his legacy, perhaps not, but ultimately that should be his choice and not a basis for major criticism. As for Bosh, well, really, who cares? RDF, you're letting yourself be too bothered by the hype. Screw it. To me, the bottom line here is that Bosh is a complementary piece, and as such, I think he'll do quite well. The guy's not a bum who can't tie his own shoes. Say he is Jermaine O'Neal 2. Playing with Wade and LeBron, is that such a bad thing to be? If the media wants to treat him like a co-equal, well, the media are morons. All that will ultimately matter is how the guys play together, and with some other pieces such as Haslem and even Miller, who can certainly shoot the ball, I think they should be pretty damn good.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 13:27:27 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 13, 2010 13:27:27 GMT -5
Mike Miller is overrated as well--if people watched the games and not the rep-he's been a hesitant shooter lately--can't defend, and often is hurt. Too much money for a marginal player. Haslem is good pickup--but Juwan Howard--who Heat have been obsessed with entire decade, and other castoffs is a stretch.
I really like what Bulls did--surround Rose with shooters-Korver--and Redick--who while Orlando wants to keep--they'll likely have to make a move to do so--and Boozer brings some frontcourt scoring to go with Noah. Good offseason.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 15:35:04 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 13, 2010 15:35:04 GMT -5
I think that Miller hasn't been as good as he could have been. But I think that he could be a very good compliment to the roster that Miami is putting together. I would expect that he will see some good looks on the perimeter with the slashing and driving skills of Wade and James. Also, I'm a little more impressed with Bosh than some of you are. I think he needs to add a little bit of muscle to his frame, but I think he has a nice skill set and is good on both ends of the floor. Additionally, I'm impressed with him as a person. He has a good head on his shoulders. I don't know anything about his character, but in this day and age, not knowing anything might indicate a good one. He's not the physical presence of Howard, but I still think he's an excellent compliment to the rest of the roster so far.
Lastly, I'm not sure my comments on Derek Fisher ever got clarified. I like Fisher a lot. He was pretty much the only Laker that I liked. All I meant was that since he has rings, I don't think the alure of winning more is as compelling as it obviously was to James, Bosh and Wade. I wasn't trying to knock Fisher in any way shape or form. I would have loved for him to come to the Heat as I like them and don't like the Lakers, but I don't have anything at all against him personally.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
LeBron
Jul 13, 2010 19:39:14 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 13, 2010 19:39:14 GMT -5
Overrated doesn't lose. Not very good does. And whether Mike Miller makes an extra million or not, who cares? Riley is playing with monopoly money because he got two of the top 3 players to sign for less than Rudy Gay.
Ilgauskas headed to the Heat. So now let's assume Wade, James, Bosh, Miller, Haslem, Chalmers, Ilgauskas, Varnado, Butler, and Howard.
Hey who's that over there buying tickets to Miami? Oh it's Jason Williams. Wow, this roster took almost an entire week to fill out with proven winners and diverse role players. Real hard job for Riley.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 0:30:30 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 14, 2010 0:30:30 GMT -5
The team Riley has assembled might not make Eastern Conference Finals. There is no low post scoring, no interior defense, the same garbage that both guys played with on their teams--except for Haslem who is a nice role player. Mike Miller is a 3pt guy who doesn't take a lot of 3pt shots--so he stays on perimeter and does what? Look at his attempts the past few years--they are way down and he's been reluctant to pull the trigger. Bosh is a guy who likes to play facing hoop--isn't a low post scorer or low post defender.
So Heat are banking on a Jordan/Pippen type of team--but their Pippen thinks he's Jordan--and their Jordan thinks he's Jordan. Lebron off the ball spotting up or Wade off ball spotting up late in game? Who's got ball in their hands? Who plays defense inside? This team needs a lot more then what they have to win a championship imo--but then again--it will probably work perfectly since the celebration already took place.
Hifi--I get that you aren't ripping on Fisher. I'm ripping on you-and the ignorant point of view Fisher re-signing with Lakers isn't with idea of him getting/chasing a ring. When he's won 5 with that franchise-I'd say that is why he re-signed--to chase another ring and with a proven franchise/team that gets it done--not some gypsies who think they are going to get it done because they got together in a tree fort and planned this 3 years ago.
|
|
theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 8:49:50 GMT -5
Post by theexorcist on Jul 14, 2010 8:49:50 GMT -5
The team Riley has assembled might not make Eastern Conference Finals. There is no low post scoring, no interior defense, the same garbage that both guys played with on their teams--except for Haslem who is a nice role player. Mike Miller is a 3pt guy who doesn't take a lot of 3pt shots--so he stays on perimeter and does what? Look at his attempts the past few years--they are way down and he's been reluctant to pull the trigger. Bosh is a guy who likes to play facing hoop--isn't a low post scorer or low post defender. So Heat are banking on a Jordan/Pippen type of team--but their Pippen thinks he's Jordan--and their Jordan thinks he's Jordan. Lebron off the ball spotting up or Wade off ball spotting up late in game? Who's got ball in their hands? Who plays defense inside? This team needs a lot more then what they have to win a championship imo--but then again--it will probably work perfectly since the celebration already took place. Hifi--I get that you aren't ripping on Fisher. I'm ripping on you-and the ignorant point of view Fisher re-signing with Lakers isn't with idea of him getting/chasing a ring. When he's won 5 with that franchise-I'd say that is why he re-signed--to chase another ring and with a proven franchise/team that gets it done--not some gypsies who think they are going to get it done because they got together in a tree fort and planned this 3 years ago. I think that the Pippen/Jordan thing may work - if it does, here's how: 1. Wade is the guy you pass the ball to in crunch time. LeBron will do this. Willingly. Eagerly. He doesn't want to be The Man. 2. LeBron will continue to make commercials and do lots of other things, all of which will convey the message that he's a star and the greatest player in the League. 3. Therefore, during the 48 minutes of every game, Wade will be the unquestioned alpha. The question is whether Wade will get sick of people talking about the "LeBron and Dwyane Show" when it's either just the Dwyane show or his name at least comes first. I think he won't care as long as they keep winning.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 14, 2010 10:27:31 GMT -5
Basketball Wise--I'd have Wade off ball--better shooter then James--but it's interesting because both are better with ball and working themselves into a shot then being a catch/shoot guy.
|
|
hifigator
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,387
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 10:47:13 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 14, 2010 10:47:13 GMT -5
I think the critics are looking for any and all oportunities. Do I "know" that this, somewhat, revolutionary formula will work? No. But discounting it to begin with isn't a very sound strategy either. Why do we want to jump at the opportunity to criticize the players for grouping together and concocting their own formula for success? Similarly, why do we assume that the front office people will concoct a better one? My point here is that the chemistry that evolves on the court is of utmost importance. Who is to say that player-developed chemisty is inferior to that created -- or at least attempted to be created -- by others in the front office? As for Bosh, we have a difference of opinion. I think he's a pretty good player and I also think he has the right head on his shoulders to fit into this "team" quite nicely. Will he? That remains to be seen.
Lastly, as for Fisher, when I originally made my comment, he hadn't made his decision -- or at least his announcement. I was just pointing out that I didn't think he would have the obsessive motivation to jump to the perceived "big dog" in an effort to win a ring. I based this on both the fact that he already had plenty and also on the impression I have from hearing him talk in the past. It turns out that I was right, and he didn't decide to make the in vogue decision. In retrospect, I see your point that staying with the Lakers could also be viewed as chasing a ring, but I was making a different point.
|
|
theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,506
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 12:51:58 GMT -5
Post by theexorcist on Jul 14, 2010 12:51:58 GMT -5
I think the critics are looking for any and all oportunities. Do I "know" that this, somewhat, revolutionary formula will work? No. But discounting it to begin with isn't a very sound strategy either. Why do we want to jump at the opportunity to criticize the players for grouping together and concocting their own formula for success? Similarly, why do we assume that the front office people will concoct a better one? My point here is that the chemistry that evolves on the court is of utmost importance. Who is to say that player-developed chemisty is inferior to that created -- or at least attempted to be created -- by others in the front office? As for Bosh, we have a difference of opinion. I think he's a pretty good player and I also think he has the right head on his shoulders to fit into this "team" quite nicely. Will he? That remains to be seen. Lastly, as for Fisher, when I originally made my comment, he hadn't made his decision -- or at least his announcement. I was just pointing out that I didn't think he would have the obsessive motivation to jump to the perceived "big dog" in an effort to win a ring. I based this on both the fact that he already had plenty and also on the impression I have from hearing him talk in the past. It turns out that I was right, and he didn't decide to make the in vogue decision. In retrospect, I see your point that staying with the Lakers could also be viewed as chasing a ring, but I was making a different point. It's also worth mentioning that, unless you're playing NBA Jam, three players doesn't constitute a "team". The "we're the only three players that matter" (note how only those three showed up, not the entire team) is a dynamic that may annoy a lot of people (especially the two players who will also be starting). LeBron may be helpful here - he seemed to make his teammates like playing with him - but it's still a potential minefield.
|
|
hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,438
|
LeBron
Jul 14, 2010 13:15:46 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 14, 2010 13:15:46 GMT -5
I almost agree with hifi again, which makes twice in one day, so I'm off to see my analyst to find out what's wrong with me. Don't forget that the roster still isn't complete. Yes, interior defense is likely to be an issue, and they could be a playoff flame-out, but if they are, LeBron should feel right at home. I think the whole thing is going to be fascinating to watch.
As for why only the three of them showed up, perhaps it's because the only other player who was under contract at the time was Mario Chalmers.
|
|