hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 12:46:27 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 9, 2010 12:46:27 GMT -5
NWO -- ROTFLMAO.
NWO the movie, starring Dwayne Wade as Kevin Nash/Diesel, Chris Bosh as Scott Hall/Razor Ramon (aka the Oozer - he oozes machismo) and special guest star LeBron James as the Hulkster.
Actually, there is precedent for hulking clods winning rings at center - see Bill Wennington. I'm sure the Heat will find someone to fill that role. Maybe Shaq will be available. Sounds perfect for him.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 12:50:11 GMT -5
Post by theexorcist on Jul 9, 2010 12:50:11 GMT -5
Lebron made the best decision basket-ball wise. He realizes he can't win a Championship as the alpha-dog, the man of a team. If he did, he would have went to Chicago. Going to Miami, Lebron can now be the player he was destined to be...the upgraded version of Scottie Pippen. Lebron is not like Magic Johnson. He is a bulkier version of Pippen, imo. He can pass, run the floor with great athleticism and finish on the fastbreak, help facilitate but not run an offense, and do all the little things to help the alpha-dog on his team shine brightest. Lebron can do this with Wade. Wade is the man in Miami. Quite frankly, I think Wade is just as good as Kobe. Matter of fact, if Wade doesn't hurt his ribs against the Pistons, he may have 2 rings and not 1 already. with Lebron on board, Wade can really take off. Now do they go to the Finals next year? NO. Teams are won with great players AND great role players AND defense. Thats what the Celitics were these past 3 years. They and the 3 stars in KG, Allen, and Pierce. But they also had the emerging Rondo, good supportive role players too. And that team made committment to defense across the board that was impressive. They were a special group and a great blend of players. I'm not sure the Heat can work up a squad comparable to that in a few months. The problem is that he thinks he's still the alpha. When your nickname is The Chosen One and the preferred Nike slogan is "We are all Witnesses" .... Scottie Pippen never had an ad campaign that focused on him. How is that going to work out? The more I think of this, the more LeBron seems like Fredo. Thinking that he's the focus behind the outfit, that he never gets any respect. It didn't end well for Fredo, and it's not ending well for LeBron.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 13:07:03 GMT -5
Post by the_way on Jul 9, 2010 13:07:03 GMT -5
Here is the thing, Lebron doesn't think he is the alpha.
If he did he goes to Chicago, Nets, Cleveland or the Knicks.
It was almost like a funeral instead of a celebration during that hour long special. We saw the death of a mega-superstar right before our eyes.
Also, if Lebron was Fredo he would have gone to the Nets or Knicks or stayed in Cleveland.
Fredo hated himself due to his limitations and was ashamed of them, particularly in comparison to his younger brother Michael who had it altogether. However, Fredo, as a defense mechanism, always tried to bite off more than he could chew to pretend that he was more than he was. He was never Michael. He was never self-sufficient as a man. But Fredo had too much pride to accept that.
Lebron accepted his limitation last night by signing with Miami. He basically said that "hey I can't do this on my own and lead a team, I don't want to lead, i'd be better off hooking up with a guy who has led a team to a title like Wade."
If Lebron sees himself as the "chosen one" or the "savior", he wouldn't make himself Peter and sign with Miami, he would have remained Jesus and tried to lead his team to the promise land.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 13:13:15 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2010 13:13:15 GMT -5
Here is the thing, Lebron doesn't think he is the alpha. If he did he goes to Chicago, Nets, Cleveland or the Knicks. It was almost like a funeral instead of a celebration during that hour long special. We saw the death of a mega-superstar right before our eyes. Also, if Lebron was Fredo he would have gone to the Nets or Knicks or stayed in Cleveland. Fredo hated himself due to his limitations and was ashamed of them, particularly in comparison to his younger brother Michael who had it altogether. However, Fredo, as a defense mechanism, always tried to bite off more than he could chew to pretend that he was more than he was. He was never Michael. He was never self-sufficient as a man. But Fredo had too much pride to accept that. Lebron accepted his limitation last night by signing with Miami. He basically said that "hey I can't do this on my own and lead a team, I don't want to lead, i'd be better off hooking up with a guy who has led a team to a title like Wade." If Lebron sees himself as the "chosen one" or the "savior", he wouldn't make himself Peter and sign with Miami, he would have remained Jesus and tried to lead his team to the promise land. Godfather analysis AND Biblical analysis - this whole LeBron thing really has gone over-the-top!
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SFHoya99
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 13:13:50 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 9, 2010 13:13:50 GMT -5
Bad psycho-analysis aside, I don't know if I will root for or against the Heat (I'm a big Wade fan), but I will definitely watch them.
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Boz
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 13:34:23 GMT -5
Post by Boz on Jul 9, 2010 13:34:23 GMT -5
I am getting confused by all of these analogies.
Can someone explain the LeBron James decision to me in terms of the pantheon of the Marvel universe?
Or perhaps which character he might have been on 'Lost'?
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 13:38:46 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 9, 2010 13:38:46 GMT -5
Is there any drama more fake than whether or not the Heat are going to be any good?
Let's say I traded Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, and Anthony Parker for Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and Mike Miller straight up. Does anyone have any doubt who got the best of this trade? Do you have to watch tape or run the numbers?
I know everyone who fancies themselves a basketball genius loves to make the call that they won't win the East because of "role players." Oh really? Why? Who are their role players? Oh, you don't know yet? Oh so they must be net negatives. In fact so negative that they cancel out the fact that the Heat are essentially a ridiculously souped up version of a Cavs team that has lost to the eventual EC champion in 6 or 7 games each of the last three years and averaged 64 regular season wins the last two.
The Heat are really freakin' good. And I'm going to bet some pretty good veteran minimum contracts will sign there to play a role on this team. Add Ilgauskas and Shaq and you really do have the best Cavs team ever. Add in Chalmers who is already under contract and convince Haslem to stick around just for the chance at a ring and the Heat have plenty of role players for this team.
Do any of those moves sound unreasonable? Plenty of guys out there to fill roles still. So I'll go out on a limb and say the team with the two best players in the Eastern Conference wins the Eastern Conference.
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theexorcist
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 14:05:27 GMT -5
Post by theexorcist on Jul 9, 2010 14:05:27 GMT -5
Is there any drama more fake than whether or not the Heat are going to be any good? Let's say I traded Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison, and Anthony Parker for Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, and Mike Miller straight up. Does anyone have any doubt who got the best of this trade? Do you have to watch tape or run the numbers? I know everyone who fancies themselves a basketball genius loves to make the call that they won't win the East because of "role players." Oh really? Why? Who are their role players? Oh, you don't know yet? Oh so they must be net negatives. In fact so negative that they cancel out the fact that the Heat are essentially a ridiculously souped up version of a Cavs team that has lost to the eventual EC champion in 6 or 7 games each of the last three years and averaged 64 regular season wins the last two. The Heat are really freakin' good. And I'm going to bet some pretty good veteran minimum contracts will sign there to play a role on this team. Add Ilgauskas and Shaq and you really do have the best Cavs team ever. Add in Chalmers who is already under contract and convince Haslem to stick around just for the chance at a ring and the Heat have plenty of role players for this team. Do any of those moves sound unreasonable? Plenty of guys out there to fill roles still. So I'll go out on a limb and say the team with the two best players in the Eastern Conference wins the Eastern Conference. The Heat will be very good. My question is whether they will win in the playoffs, when, in the past two years, the Cavs team that was so great in the regular season flopped.
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theexorcist
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 14:06:03 GMT -5
Post by theexorcist on Jul 9, 2010 14:06:03 GMT -5
Oh, and make no mistake, this team should and will be judged by postseason success or lack thereof.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 14:44:33 GMT -5
Post by SFHoya99 on Jul 9, 2010 14:44:33 GMT -5
Of course, as soon as I defend James even a little bit, we learn quality things like he didn't have the guts to call his previous employer and quit personally, even after repeated attempts to call him.
Of course, I'm not sure I entirely believe him. But if true, that's gutless.
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GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 14:59:34 GMT -5
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Jul 9, 2010 14:59:34 GMT -5
Oh, and make no mistake, this team should and will be judged by postseason success or lack thereof. Oh it will be and should be. But let's get real here, the Lebron Cavs weren't that far from the Eastern Conference title to begin with and instead of Mo it's the 2006 Finals MVP/the guy who made Tom Crean look like a good coach! This is Dwayne Wade. Even if the knock on Lebron is that he doesn't know how to win, Dwayne Wade does. This isn't just an all-star team here. They have the best player AND the best WINNER in the conference. I just don't see how this goes wrong. The last time the league MVP switched teams to a contender, that team mauled everyone like an angry bear and lost once in the playoffs almost cashing in on said MVP's "Fo, Fo, Fo" prediction. No flop about it. If you don't believe in Lebron, believe in Wade. On skill alone, he's the best player Lebron has played with by a factor of ten. On tangibles and intangibles? Then that sentence becomes Lebron is the second-best player Wade has played with.
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 15:00:58 GMT -5
Post by jerseyhoya34 on Jul 9, 2010 15:00:58 GMT -5
NWO -- ROTFLMAO. NWO the movie, starring Dwayne Wade as Kevin Nash/Diesel, Chris Bosh as Scott Hall/Razor Ramon (aka the Oozer - he oozes machismo) and special guest star LeBron James as the Hulkster. Actually, there is precedent for hulking clods winning rings at center - see Bill Wennington. I'm sure the Heat will find someone to fill that role. Maybe Shaq will be available. Sounds perfect for him. Rumor has it that Lebron is dying his facial hair white. Pat Riley as Ted Dibiase, anyone?
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 15:41:53 GMT -5
Post by TC on Jul 9, 2010 15:41:53 GMT -5
I am getting confused by all of these analogies. Can someone explain the LeBron James decision to me in terms of the pantheon of the Marvel universe? Or perhaps which character he might have been on 'Lost'? I'm putting LeBron James somewhere between Gambit without the charm and cajun accent and Michael from Lost. In my analogy Cleveland is a bunch of Morlocks living in a sewer, which seems oddly fitting.
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RDF
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 16:06:35 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 9, 2010 16:06:35 GMT -5
Bosh would be X-Pac--a complete fairy who has no talent and gets to hang with the "cool guys" to be cool--so he'll make a sextape with Khloe Kardashian and "Kicking it with Khloe".
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dense
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 18:47:44 GMT -5
Post by dense on Jul 9, 2010 18:47:44 GMT -5
Gigafan is dead on, there is no drama they will be really good because some good vets will line-up to play, just to be associated with this. It makes their names revelant.
You think anyone would know A.C Green if he played with the Sacramento kings for 14 yrs Kurt Rambis, hell even Scott Wedman and Jerry Schisting(sp).
the-way you are way off.....(pun maybe intended), Lebron's choice isnt as simple as whether he wants to be an alpha-dog or not. I think he really wants to do sometihng that will be remembered forever, and the way things will always be in Cleveland it will never happen. Dudes dont want to play there. And they really wont after seeing what Gilbert wrote. I wouldnt take a long-term deal from them ever if i had a choice of where to play. KG gave Lebron advice after this years playoffs "If i knew how life was gonna be leaving Minnesota, I would have left a long time ago" Loyalty to Cleveland is noble, but nobility also can leave you with no championships.
Whats also funny is people give this Kobe-Lebron comparsion. Shaq of Lakers time vs Shaq/Z of now? Gasol vs Varaejo? is there really a comparsion that the NBA has this stars driven marketing but it almost is never just the stars who get you tot he finish line, you need pieces. Lakers this year have Artest the best one-on-one defender in the NBA, Fisher, a clutch shooter, Odom who at one point was considered a NBA all-star quality Forward off the bench. Bynum who is definitely in the top 5 Centers in teh NBA. Its not like Kobe is leading the Reggie and the miracles cast. I think in like 20 years we will remember these future heat teams like the Lakers/Celts teams of the 80's you'll know all the players and pieces, and remember them fondly, not Lebron bitched up and wasnt an alpha dog. Jerry West and Wilt only won 2 and no one calls them chokers. The Heat will win at least 2.
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hoyarooter
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 9, 2010 21:59:40 GMT -5
Post by hoyarooter on Jul 9, 2010 21:59:40 GMT -5
West only won one, but he was also the only player ever to be MVP of the finals on a losing team. Not exactly West's fault that the Lakers didn't win more.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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LeBron
Jul 10, 2010 8:50:43 GMT -5
Post by RDF on Jul 10, 2010 8:50:43 GMT -5
These guys (Wade/Lebron) are too good to be acting like the morons on display last night. Seriously--that type of celebration is what you do when you WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, not "win the Free Agency Period"-and it's really sad how they all preened/posed like they did something.
As for Bosh--he's a complete tool--and has taken over the moniker as most disliked player for being talked at a level he is incapable of producing. I honestly want him to get his ass kicked--he's a CLOWN who acts like a guy who has never hung out with the "cool kids" and is now part of the "in crowd".
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hifigator
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LeBron
Jul 10, 2010 11:41:19 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 10, 2010 11:41:19 GMT -5
RDF, I would normally agree with you if it was "just" about the players. That was as much about the fans, fan interest and overall Heat-Mania. As you well know, Miami isn't much on supporting their teams with rabid passion. Sure, when they are winning, they tend to show up more, and in the Canes heyday, they had "overcome" that aspect to a degree. Still, there just isn't any loyalty and there is very little unilateral passion for the Miami teams. I think the goal was to parlay the initial excitement into something sustainable through the offseason. It's really not that long before preseason camp starts, and with the roster they are putting together, they have the potential to do something special.
The more I have thought about it, the more I am accepting the idea of this player driven management. I could certainly be proven wrong, but my point is that I think there might have been too many different cooks in the kitchen. You have the:
1. Owners -- they primarily look at the bottom line. Sure, there's Mark Cuban who gets involved more on the day to day angles of the team itself, but for the most part, the cash behind is interested in one thing -- money.
2. GM -- This is the guy who works for the owner. His job is to help the #1 be happy. So again, money is the goal. Sure, he's smart enough to know that winning is what will ulitamately spawn growth and interest in the team, resulting in all the revenues which follow. But again, he is a businessman.
3. Coach -- This is the guy who actually "runs" the team. He's the one who has to, not only design the system, call the X's and O's, but even more importantly, manage the egos of a dozen guys, many/most of which make as much or more than he does and unfortunately, in too many cases, think their sh!t doesn't stink. Watching tape, studying tendencies and selecting a staff of qualified and capable assistants to manage everything from physical training to meals to minutes are aspects of coaching that probably don't get the attention they deserve, but they factor into the big picture dramatically. Of these, the ego-management probabaly gets the most attention, and probably rightfully so.
which leads to the point in all of this:
In the past, the players have never really taken this kind of managerial action. Sure, they were free to choose, with the help of their agents, where to go and coaches/gms have certainly solicited advice from players in the past as to who they might want to keep or get rid of and even who they might want to add. But that is still a sort of subserviant role to that of the coach/gm/owner. Even though I was strongly against the dog and pony show at first, I think I'm willing to give it a fair try. This may very well lead to a dramatic change in the way rosters are put together in the future. I'm not going to, at least at this point, say that is necessarily a good thing. But I think we must give it a shot. Why would we not want to? As best as I can tell, Lebron Dwayne and Chris took it upon themselves to decide who they wanted to play with, factoring in both the potential for ultimate success as well as the undeniable on and off the court chemistry. Is that such a bad thing?
Yeah, the spectacle that was on Thursday night was odd for sure. It wasn't fair to the Cavaliers. But life isn't always fair.
The bottom line is this question:
Who is to say that the players micromanaging the team is inherently worse than anyone else, be it a coach, GM or owner?
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hifigator
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LeBron
Jul 10, 2010 11:51:31 GMT -5
Post by hifigator on Jul 10, 2010 11:51:31 GMT -5
To tie it together, we all know the importance of the ego management. The best coaches are able to do that, whether we are talking about Riley, Jackson or Tomjanovich. I wouldn't go so far as to say that chemistry is mandatory, but it certainly helps. There have been storied cases of tremendously successful teammates on the court/field etc. that hated each other off the court/field. But that isn't really the formula you would choose on purpose. So having players who come together on their own to decide to play together and be together can't be a bad starting point.
I know how I get criticized for always bringing discussions back to the Gators, but the back to back Championship teams in 2006 and 2007 had chemistry. The 'oh-fours' as they were known -- Taurean Green, Joakim Noah, Al Horford and Corey Brewer -- did everything together. Not only were they roommates and teammates, but almost like brothers. You can't overestimate how much that contributed to the successes of the team.
Even if the coach is ultimately the ego manager, don't you think that his job is immensely easier when the players -- especially the marquee players -- start with this attitude to begin with?
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hoyainspirit
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LeBron
Jul 11, 2010 10:51:26 GMT -5
Post by hoyainspirit on Jul 11, 2010 10:51:26 GMT -5
Gilbert is a tool. From my perspective, the only thing LBJ is "guilty" of is putting himself first. The preposterousness that accompanied his announcement Thursday went well beyond him grabbing the spotlight and telling the world he was leaving Cleveland. The move continues to be portrayed by many in the media and by NBA fans as if somehow he “owed” Cleveland and Dan Gilbert something, that he didn’t properly show suitors respect by the way he chose to depart. I don't buy it. LeBron significantly raised the profile of that franchise during his 7 yrs there, not to mention raising Gilbert's net worth. To crack on him for leaving is just wrong, IMO. I can't fault a person in an employment situation for making the decision which suits him or her the best.
That said, I can't wait to root against them every time they play, though I admit to some conflict because I like Wade and because of Zo's continued affiliation. One of the reasons sports are great is because they give us someone to root against with passion. The Heat, for me, now join that list, behind only the Yankees, Lakers, and Dook.
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