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Post by jld54 on Apr 12, 2012 7:52:56 GMT -5
As much of a SU homer that Thamel is, there is one line from his NY Times article that, if true, explains the whole thing: Noel was accompanied to NC for the announcement by Driscoll.
This sums the whole thing up: Driscoll is dirty and is still part of the Noel circle.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 12, 2012 7:56:30 GMT -5
I really can't believe the righteous indignation being exhibited here. Why? Because a few fools who make a living out of following around a bunch 15-18 year old boys either conspired or themselves got sucked in to force us all to spend hours following some no-name twitter account and constantly refreshing some arcane message board. 30 years ago long before cable and ESPN had made a dent into our lives it was considered to be way over the top to not only have a public announcement but to do it at a restaurant in front of both the print and tv media. When the decision was announced many of the same comments echoed above and some much worse were made both by the media and opposing fan bases.
Clearly little has changed over this period of time.
Personnally i liked it. The main objective of the Staff and program should be to position themselves to be in this situation every year. Then we simply need to close it at the end. To do that we need to start winning a few more games in March. And that my friends IMHO as to why we didn't see G on the back of his head.
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Dhall
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Post by Dhall on Apr 12, 2012 8:26:32 GMT -5
A few things I wanted to say but didn't while there was still a possibility of him coming here:
1. We simply don't need him. Although MAYBE he is marginally better, we have three huge bodies to play the center position and play defense. Hopkins showed real talent this year and Moses and Adams are big boys. Noel's offensive game is really limited - the league he plays in is a bunch of short slow kids he can dunk over. Having him as a freshman playing the Henry Sims role on offense wasn't going to work. If he had planned to stay two years, then it's a big miss. But for one year, we just don't need him. What we need is a creative scorer and/or jump shooter.
2. There would have been personality conflicts. I actually don't mind his attention-grabbing antics, but they don't fit with JTIII or the other players on the team right now. Also, pre-ordaining a kid as a starter before he shows up on campus would have certainly ruffled feathers of guys like Hopkins and Lubick who have had to work really hard. And it's not consistent with JTIII's overall message. I just hope that the fact we recruited him in the first place doesn't bother a guy like Hopkins.
3. If it were me, I would have gone to Kentucky also. They are a bigger and better program than we are in every way. It's just reality. Say what you want about Calipari, but he seems to have great relationships with his players and they do get much better even under one year of his coaching. He is a great coach who improves his players. Especially point guards, but other guys too.
So I'm not upset about this at all. On balance, of course you take the risk in trying to get this guy, but I'm OK with it. Now I'd like us to go get Pollard and a point guard.
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Post by prospect on Apr 12, 2012 8:36:13 GMT -5
A few things I wanted to say but didn't while there was still a possibility of him coming here: 1. We simply don't need him. Although MAYBE he is marginally better, we have three huge bodies to play the center position and play defense. Hopkins showed real talent this year and Moses and Adams are big boys. Noel's offensive game is really limited - the league he plays in is a bunch of short slow kids he can dunk over. Having him as a freshman playing the Henry Sims role on offense wasn't going to work. If he had planned to stay two years, then it's a big miss. But for one year, we just don't need him. What we need is a creative scorer and/or jump shooter. 2. There would have been personality conflicts. I actually don't mind his attention-grabbing antics, but they don't fit with JTIII or the other players on the team right now. Also, pre-ordaining a kid as a starter before he shows up on campus would have certainly ruffled feathers of guys like Hopkins and Lubick who have had to work really hard. And it's not consistent with JTIII's overall message. I just hope that the fact we recruited him in the first place doesn't bother a guy like Hopkins. 3. If it were me, I would have gone to Kentucky also. They are a bigger and better program than we are in every way. It's just reality. Say what you want about Calipari, but he seems to have great relationships with his players and they do get much better even under one year of his coaching. He is a great coach who improves his players. Especially point guards, but other guys too. So I'm not upset about this at all. On balance, of course you take the risk in trying to get this guy, but I'm OK with it. Now I'd like us to go get Pollard and a point guard. Well said. Next year's team will have a lot of quality. Let's add one or two more guys and get ready for Kenner!
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GUJook97
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Post by GUJook97 on Apr 12, 2012 8:49:08 GMT -5
I am sure it is partly sour grapes, but Noel has really set himself up to huge expectations. I hope he knows what he got into. IMO, one of the best things about Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist and Teague is that they seemed to be very mature and humble kids that got the team concept right away. Not saying Noel wont be like that, but this isnt an inspiring start. I agree that personality is going to be a big issue with him.
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calhoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by calhoya on Apr 12, 2012 8:49:31 GMT -5
A few things I wanted to say but didn't while there was still a possibility of him coming here: 1. We simply don't need him. Although MAYBE he is marginally better, we have three huge bodies to play the center position and play defense. Hopkins showed real talent this year and Moses and Adams are big boys. Noel's offensive game is really limited - the league he plays in is a bunch of short slow kids he can dunk over. Having him as a freshman playing the Henry Sims role on offense wasn't going to work. If he had planned to stay two years, then it's a big miss. But for one year, we just don't need him. What we need is a creative scorer and/or jump shooter. 2. There would have been personality conflicts. I actually don't mind his attention-grabbing antics, but they don't fit with JTIII or the other players on the team right now. Also, pre-ordaining a kid as a starter before he shows up on campus would have certainly ruffled feathers of guys like Hopkins and Lubick who have had to work really hard. And it's not consistent with JTIII's overall message. I just hope that the fact we recruited him in the first place doesn't bother a guy like Hopkins. 3. If it were me, I would have gone to Kentucky also. They are a bigger and better program than we are in every way. It's just reality. Say what you want about Calipari, but he seems to have great relationships with his players and they do get much better even under one year of his coaching. He is a great coach who improves his players. Especially point guards, but other guys too. So I'm not upset about this at all. On balance, of course you take the risk in trying to get this guy, but I'm OK with it. Now I'd like us to go get Pollard and a point guard. Totally agree that adding a post is not a top priority, although I do understand that if you have a shot at the 5 star recruit you take it. I have always felt that replacing the lost outside shooting is a bigger need right now. Taking away Clark and Hollis means most of the reliable 3 point shooting is gone. Who knows if Starks, DSR or Jabril can step up along with Porter and GW? In many ways, next year's team is a much bigger question mark than this year's was coming into the season. Next year's experience is Lubick and a bunch of kids who have played only one year (Starks really did not get much time as a freshman).
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 8:51:53 GMT -5
30 years ago long before cable and ESPN had made a dent into our lives it was considered to be way over the top to not only have a public announcement but to do it at a restaurant in front of both the print and tv media. When the decision was announced many of the same comments echoed above and some much worse were made both by the media and opposing fan bases. I'm not seeing your point. Maybe you just see them as a fact of life, but public announcements for a high school kid's college choice are over-the-top. What happened last night goes beyond the pale - it was a public announcement on TV with a coordinated media strategy to keep the decision under wraps which involved lies, a smokescreen, leading people on, and a ridiculous amount of coy nonsense (his blog, his tweets) from the kid himself. It wasn't even an announcement of where a $200M player was going to go for 10 years, it was an announcement where a high school kid is going for one year. I'll never watch another one of these things again. I got so roped in after Boumtje's post with all the smileys, and all of the other well-placed tweets like Georges Niang. After Fraschilla's post, I thought this thing was so in the bag that when he said "The University of..." I thought there was some mistake or that he was confused because "The University of Georgetown" doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure whether I'm more disgusted by what happened, or by the fact that I got sucked in. I'm usually pretty suspicious and cynical about everything, but I honestly couldn't believe that there'd be lies and a coordinated media strategy behind all of the Tweet evidence piling up yesterday. Now I know how this game is being played. And to sleepy - we will never win recruits in this position. Never. If it doesn't matter how many games we win in March, if it comes down to a televised announcement where there are three hats in front of a kid, or a reveal with a school symbol shaved into his head, it isn't going to be a giant G or a bulldog. Georgetown wins in situations where the parents want the kid to finish his degree even after leaving, Georgetown wins in situations where the family has avoided the AAU circus, Georgetown wins in situations where the spotlight isn't on. We're simply not the size of school that can compete, we don't have the impressive facilities or resources others do, we can win on being grounded and solid and sheltered and out-of-the-spotlight, but we cannot compete with Kentucky or Syracuse at the circus.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Apr 12, 2012 8:57:55 GMT -5
Agree with TC. The Hoyas are not the school to go to if you plan to be one and done. Even extraordinarily high IQ players like Otto need more than a year to develop in this system. Cannot think of any player in the JT III era who was truly ready for the NBA after one year.
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Post by pr20 on Apr 12, 2012 9:01:09 GMT -5
This is so disgusting to see so many people calling this kids charcter into question behind that espn show. He didn't pick gtown. That is his right. you might think the announcement was cheesy, but hey, you are not an 18 year old kid who is rated the top athlete in the nation. Thta kid has worked hard to get to wear he is and he deserves the right to make the announcement the way he wants to. There are millions of people who are dying to get on tv for much less respectable reasons than why he was on last night. Notoriety is something that many people desire.
Just let himi be and move on to Upshaw and Pollard.
Kids have been having press conferences to announce colleg plans for decades. The bigger the kid the bigger the press conf. Magic had one. Sahq had one. Kenny Anderson had one. ALONZO probably had one as well. It is not NN fault that the interest around such things has grown.
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dreamhoya
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Post by dreamhoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:04:03 GMT -5
I agree that NN would've been a luxury. I wish him well and was mildly disappointed in his choice because I thought he would "shock the world" and choose GU. I think if Ayegba and Adams are healthy, we have some inside presence. Ayegba averaged what, 8 blocks per game???
I do feel that GU was used as a pawn to ramp up the hype which is not cool. It's like a bad 80s movie.
I feel better. Any other peices would add depth IMO.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 12, 2012 9:15:01 GMT -5
A few things I wanted to say but didn't while there was still a possibility of him coming here: 1. We simply don't need him. Although MAYBE he is marginally better, we have three huge bodies to play the center position and play defense. Hopkins showed real talent this year and Moses and Adams are big boys. Noel's offensive game is really limited - the league he plays in is a bunch of short slow kids he can dunk over. Having him as a freshman playing the Henry Sims role on offense wasn't going to work. If he had planned to stay two years, then it's a big miss. But for one year, we just don't need him. What we need is a creative scorer and/or jump shooter. 2. There would have been personality conflicts. I actually don't mind his attention-grabbing antics, but they don't fit with JTIII or the other players on the team right now. Also, pre-ordaining a kid as a starter before he shows up on campus would have certainly ruffled feathers of guys like Hopkins and Lubick who have had to work really hard. And it's not consistent with JTIII's overall message. I just hope that the fact we recruited him in the first place doesn't bother a guy like Hopkins. 3. If it were me, I would have gone to Kentucky also. They are a bigger and better program than we are in every way. It's just reality. Say what you want about Calipari, but he seems to have great relationships with his players and they do get much better even under one year of his coaching. He is a great coach who improves his players. Especially point guards, but other guys too. So I'm not upset about this at all. On balance, of course you take the risk in trying to get this guy, but I'm OK with it. Now I'd like us to go get Pollard and a point guard. While I agree with some of your points, particularly the fact that a kid like this is always going to Kentucky, claiming that Noel would only be "marginally" better than what we have is silly. Hopkins showed some potential, but no guarantee of success, and we certainly don't have enough info about Moses and Tyler to know what they will give us down the road, other than big bodies. And if Hop and the others were upset that we were recruiting the #! recruit in the country then they are too scared of competition to expect them to develop in the future. I don't think that is the case; I think they all would have been fine with battling for time and improving their games. And yes, Noel would have been great to have, but it is up to the staff and the players to improve this team next year without him.
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idhoya
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Post by idhoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:18:43 GMT -5
after sleeping on what happened last night I have realized other things not stated by me last night.
It would've been great to get this kid, but it's not the end of the world. The exposure of us being considered to the end will help, albeit not asw much as if he had come. That said, as someone stated yestereday; we were very fortunate to be in this thing til the end. Even though the outcome was prolly predetermined a while ago and UK has far more resources than GU does; I can't really be mad.
Someone else said here that GU will prolly only be able to get top 25-50 type guys, but none of the elite of the elite, which is damn good and teams with that type of talent can win chips too. Look at Kansas this year. Yes, I want the best of the best, but let's be realistic. We have a great coach, limited resources, yet fantastic big man tradition. I, like many others, believe as much as Noel would've put us over the top; a top notch pg would do so even more. That's what we need to work on. Convincing an elite pg that fits GU to come. That bucks the perception. I have faith, but there are ?s for next year. Talent, but ?s. Grab Pollard and either Upshaw or the FL kid and all is well in hoya land until 2013. Then a pg is desperately needed.
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swhoya
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Posts: 1,137
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Post by swhoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:20:38 GMT -5
30 years ago long before cable and ESPN had made a dent into our lives it was considered to be way over the top to not only have a public announcement but to do it at a restaurant in front of both the print and tv media. When the decision was announced many of the same comments echoed above and some much worse were made both by the media and opposing fan bases. I'm not seeing your point. Maybe you just see them as a fact of life, but public announcements for a high school kid's college choice are over-the-top. What happened last night goes beyond the pale - it was a public announcement on TV with a coordinated media strategy to keep the decision under wraps which involved lies, a smokescreen, leading people on, and a ridiculous amount of coy nonsense (his blog, his tweets) from the kid himself. It wasn't even an announcement of where a $200M player was going to go for 10 years, it was an announcement where a high school kid is going for one year. I'll never watch another one of these things again. I got so roped in after Boumtje's post with all the smileys, and all of the other well-placed tweets like Georges Niang. After Fraschilla's post, I thought this thing was so in the bag that when he said "The University of..." I thought there was some mistake or that he was confused because "The University of Georgetown" doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure whether I'm more disgusted by what happened, or by the fact that I got sucked in. I'm usually pretty suspicious and cynical about everything, but I honestly couldn't believe that there'd be lies and a coordinated media strategy behind all of the Tweet evidence piling up yesterday. Now I know how this game is being played. And to sleepy - we will never win recruits in this position. Never. If it doesn't matter how many games we win in March, if it comes down to a televised announcement where there are three hats in front of a kid, or a reveal with a school symbol shaved into his head, it isn't going to be a giant G or a bulldog. Georgetown wins in situations where the parents want the kid to finish his degree even after leaving, Georgetown wins in situations where the family has avoided the AAU circus, Georgetown wins in situations where the spotlight isn't on. We're simply not the size of school that can compete, we don't have the impressive facilities or resources others do, we can win on being grounded and solid and sheltered and out-of-the-spotlight, but we cannot compete with Kentucky or Syracuse at the circus. +100. I got sucked in as well, only to be left feeling like I'd just watched something dirty. I don't mind him not picking us, it's all the other crap that went on and how it was done. It didn't make me feel very good about college basketball. I agree that Kentucky winning a second 'chip in this fashion would not be good for college basketball, but this sort of...I don't know what to call it...just really turns me off. Let's go find another Otto.
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 9:25:18 GMT -5
you might think the announcement was cheesy, but hey, you are not an 18 year old kid who is rated the top athlete in the nation. The Hallmark Channel is "cheesy". This was disgusting. Do you know what notoriety is? It's different from fame. Alonzo did have a press conference - thanks Google News archives - but every article I've read about it starts with how the other coaches were informed privately in advance vs. entire fan bases being led on by orchestrated lies, and quite honestly, Georgetown is in a completely different position recruiting from 1987 - that was 25 years ago. The selling points then were to play in a nationally competitive program for a social icon and to be in the national spotlight. The selling point now of the program is the small size, the distance from the spotlight and everything that comes along with that, the groundedness and requirement to go to class, the ability to be somewhat anonymous in your day to day life vs. being a celebrity, the lack of a gigantic fan base and booster organization and the things that come along with that, and the advantages of being in a secluded spot with access to a big city. If you could sum up the advantages of Georgetown in one word it'd be probably be 'privacy' - which is completely antithetical of the "notoriety" you are defending and promoting.
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sleepy
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Post by sleepy on Apr 12, 2012 9:32:52 GMT -5
The point TC is that this has been going on for a long time and what was good 30 years a go with a young Patrick Ewing that was as over the top then, as what we are seeing in todays environment. To say we will never win recruits in this position is not only defeatist but ultimately is self fulfilling. Might well sign up for Ranch Dressings Catholic League.
I'm quite certain that III and the staff would disagree. The more kids like Noel that you can get involved with at that level be they one and done or multi year players the better. eventually if the program is acheiving at a higher level than we have seen most recently we will close them its that simple.
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:36:32 GMT -5
30 years ago long before cable and ESPN had made a dent into our lives it was considered to be way over the top to not only have a public announcement but to do it at a restaurant in front of both the print and tv media. When the decision was announced many of the same comments echoed above and some much worse were made both by the media and opposing fan bases. I'm not seeing your point. Maybe you just see them as a fact of life, but public announcements for a high school kid's college choice are over-the-top. What happened last night goes beyond the pale - it was a public announcement on TV with a coordinated media strategy to keep the decision under wraps which involved lies, a smokescreen, leading people on, and a ridiculous amount of coy nonsense (his blog, his tweets) from the kid himself. It wasn't even an announcement of where a $200M player was going to go for 10 years, it was an announcement where a high school kid is going for one year. I'll never watch another one of these things again. I got so roped in after Boumtje's post with all the smileys, and all of the other well-placed tweets like Georges Niang. After Fraschilla's post, I thought this thing was so in the bag that when he said "The University of..." I thought there was some mistake or that he was confused because "The University of Georgetown" doesn't make any sense. I'm not sure whether I'm more disgusted by what happened, or by the fact that I got sucked in. I'm usually pretty suspicious and cynical about everything, but I honestly couldn't believe that there'd be lies and a coordinated media strategy behind all of the Tweet evidence piling up yesterday. Now I know how this game is being played. And to sleepy - we will never win recruits in this position. Never. If it doesn't matter how many games we win in March, if it comes down to a televised announcement where there are three hats in front of a kid, or a reveal with a school symbol shaved into his head, it isn't going to be a giant G or a bulldog. Georgetown wins in situations where the parents want the kid to finish his degree even after leaving, Georgetown wins in situations where the family has avoided the AAU circus, Georgetown wins in situations where the spotlight isn't on. We're simply not the size of school that can compete, we don't have the impressive facilities or resources others do, we can win on being grounded and solid and sheltered and out-of-the-spotlight, but we cannot compete with Kentucky or Syracuse at the circus. + 100000000. Well said.
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superan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by superan on Apr 12, 2012 9:43:25 GMT -5
+1 to TC's post
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Post by LizziebethHoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:44:41 GMT -5
Alonzo did have a press conference - thanks Google News archives - but every article I've read about it starts with how the other coaches were informed privately in advance vs. entire fan bases being led on by orchestrated lies, and quite honestly, Georgetown is in a completely different position recruiting from 1987 - that was 25 years ago. I find nothing wrong with press conferences. God knows my high school has enough of them whenever a top athlete or a group of decent athletes sign with D1 schools. When Greg Paulus announced he was going to Duke (before his junior year, mind you), they held a press conference just for him at my high school and I'm pretty sure ESPN was there. And he pulled out that Duke hat from under the podium. But that was it. Announcements on national television are a far step above that. And I don't like it. And everything surrounding it - I feel used. All I know is that I am done caring about recruits until they put that GU hat on their head. I trust JT3 to lure the right ones to the hilltop.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Apr 12, 2012 9:45:03 GMT -5
after sleeping on what happened last night I have realized other things not stated by me last night. It would've been great to get this kid, but it's not the end of the world. The exposure of us being considered to the end will help, albeit not asw much as if he had come. That said, as someone stated yestereday; we were very fortunate to be in this thing til the end. Even though the outcome was prolly predetermined a while ago and UK has far more resources than GU does; I can't really be mad. Someone else said here that GU will prolly only be able to get top 25-50 type guys, but none of the elite of the elite, which is damn good and teams with that type of talent can win chips too. Look at Kansas this year. Yes, I want the best of the best, but let's be realistic. We have a great coach, limited resources, yet fantastic big man tradition. I, like many others, believe as much as Noel would've put us over the top; a top notch pg would do so even more. That's what we need to work on. Convincing an elite pg that fits GU to come. That bucks the perception. I have faith, but there are ?s for next year. Talent, but ?s. Grab Pollard and either Upshaw or the FL kid and all is well in hoya land until 2013. Then a pg is desperately needed. Excellent post ID. I agree with everything you posted. Hey, it's a new day, sun came out again. GU will go on and do well even though Noel chose the NCAA Championship team over us.
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swhoya
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Post by swhoya on Apr 12, 2012 9:46:32 GMT -5
I wonder at what point coaches were informed. I'd hate to think that NN didn't at least call III and that III was watching, having heard all the same BS that the rest of us were being fed, thinking we had a shot. This Editedes me off, but today I feel bad for our staff.
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