chep3
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,314
|
Post by chep3 on Apr 12, 2012 9:47:23 GMT -5
If we knew that he intentionally started rumors that he'd be going to Kentucky so that he could show them up on ESPN and create some drama for his announcement to Georgetown, yeah, I'd have a problem with it, but our program doesn't work that way, so this is a ridiculous hypothetical. Do we "know" that he intentionally started rumors that he'd be going to Georgetown? And I am not talking about circumstantial speculation. Exactly. There are three possibilities in my opinion. 1. Noel was set to pick us (and all the rumors were legit at the time), but chose not to at the very end. 2. Noel was gaming the system the whole time, and drumming up interest by orchestrating several well placed leaks. 3. ESPN/Nike was gaming the system the whole time, and drumming up interest by orchestrating several well placed leaks. What makes you think it's #2? You're going to speculate that an 18 year old kid is secretly a media puppet master, engaged in an elaborate plot involving a number of different media outlets to make a bigger name for himself? What gives you that impression? You can hate the situation without hating the kid. That's all I'm saying.
|
|
SirSaxa
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 747
|
Post by SirSaxa on Apr 12, 2012 9:52:34 GMT -5
ESPN
For those criticizing ESPN, their handling of this whole show deal, and the vastly unbalanced comments about UK and SU vs GU, let's not forget this is the very same organization that is doing it's best to destroy the Big East and who orchestrated the PITT and CUSE to the ACC move.
It's like if GM did a big show on the US Auto industry. Does anyone think they would focus as much attention on FORD as they would on GM, Chevy, Buick, Cadillac? No, of course not.
ESPN has big money deals with the SEC and ACC. They were not renewed by the BE and we are continuing to pay the price every single day.
|
|
alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
|
Post by alleninxis on Apr 12, 2012 9:58:52 GMT -5
And if the tweets and blogs weren't actually written by Nerlens himself, then what?
Do not blame the kid. He has had people hanging off of him since he was in middle school with their eyes on a potential pay day. Could/should he surround himself with better people? Probably, but I've never been in his position so I can't judge him for it.
From knowing the little of him that I do - He's not a jerk, nor is their much of an ego. Those who surround him are a different story. And the people that HATE what has unfolded with his career will be the first to say he's a good kid at heart.
If Georgetown is 'above' certain things, then we as a fan-base should be above taking a 17 year old to task when we do not know the fully story. Just my 2 cents.
|
|
nychoya3
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 2,674
|
Post by nychoya3 on Apr 12, 2012 10:02:25 GMT -5
It's just pointless to hate on Noel for any of this. Move on. He's 17 years old. He made the easy decision. So be it.
|
|
Filo
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,911
|
Post by Filo on Apr 12, 2012 10:03:23 GMT -5
Do we "know" that he intentionally started rumors that he'd be going to Georgetown? And I am not talking about circumstantial speculation. Exactly. There are three possibilities in my opinion. 1. Noel was set to pick us (and all the rumors were legit at the time), but chose not to at the very end. 2. Noel was gaming the system the whole time, and drumming up interest by orchestrating several well placed leaks. 3. ESPN/Nike was gaming the system the whole time, and drumming up interest by orchestrating several well placed leaks. What makes you think it's #2? You're going to speculate that an 18 year old kid is secretly a media puppet master, engaged in an elaborate plot involving a number of different media outlets to make a bigger name for himself? What gives you that impression? You can hate the situation without hating the kid. That's all I'm saying. Exactly. Some of these posts sound like they are from little spurned school girls who are POd because they got sucked in. If you want to believe that NN knew he was going to Kentucky all along and added GU just to have some legitimacy or whatever, fine. But that is obviously all opinion -- we don't "know" anything. His mother may have had a full-court press on for GU. Or, she may have wanted Kentucky all along and bought in to the media circus. We just don't know.
|
|
thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_yellow.png)
Posts: 3,849
|
Post by thebin on Apr 12, 2012 10:03:39 GMT -5
If I may paraphrase Moe Szyslak in a quote that always sums up how I feel about transfers and lost recruits...Regarding Mr. Taking My Talents To Lexington....I'm more of a well wisher, in that I don't wish him any particular harm.
Regarding ESPN...first bad omen was how little attention they were paying to us in that absurdly boring broadcast. I mean for all the insiders picking us, we sure seemed to be an afterthought throughout that 2 hours. Surprised also that we were listed after Cuse every time they call his big three out. Then when I saw that HIDEOUS knockoff Gtown hat and it wasn't in the middle...I knew we were toast.
|
|
hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by hoyabinx on Apr 12, 2012 10:09:44 GMT -5
TC keeps talking about an "orchestrated effort" to put out a smokescreen (of tea leaves!) that he was going to pick Georgetown in order to, presumably, drum up more interest for the ESPN program. I would like anyone to please point me in the direction of any ACTUAL proof that happened. Because I would love to kick my addiction to ESPN and that proof would really help me move to NBC Sports. Otherwise, let’s stop talking about it as if it were an unimpeachable truth that false Noel-to-Gtown rumors were some grand conspiracy.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 12, 2012 10:12:30 GMT -5
If I may paraphrase Moe Szyslak in a quote that always sums up how I feel about transfers and lost recruits...Regarding Mr. Taking My Talents To Lexington....I'm more of a well wisher, in that I don't wish him any particular harm. Regarding ESPN...first bad omen was how little attention they were paying to us in that absurdly boring broadcast. I mean for all the insiders picking us, we sure seemed to be an afterthought throughout that 2 hours. Surprised also that we were listed after Cuse every time they call his big three out. Then when I saw that HIDEOUS knockoff Gtown hat and it wasn't in the middle...I knew we were toast. I don't wish NN any harm - I just hope that his development lags enough that he is a non-factor when we beat UK in the tourney next year.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,468
Member is Online
|
Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 10:12:53 GMT -5
And if the tweets and blogs weren't actually written by Nerlens himself, then what? Honestly? I think he wrote the "shock the world" tweet, I don't think he wrote the ESPN blog - some ESPN publicist probably wrote that. I do think he knew and went along with it the media strategy.
|
|
|
Post by pr20 on Apr 12, 2012 10:14:28 GMT -5
you might think the announcement was cheesy, but hey, you are not an 18 year old kid who is rated the top athlete in the nation. The Hallmark Channel is "cheesy". This was disgusting. Do you know what notoriety is? It's different from fame. Alonzo did have a press conference - thanks Google News archives - but every article I've read about it starts with how the other coaches were informed privately in advance vs. entire fan bases being led on by orchestrated lies, and quite honestly, Georgetown is in a completely different position recruiting from 1987 - that was 25 years ago. The selling points then were to play in a nationally competitive program for a social icon and to be in the national spotlight. The selling point now of the program is the small size, the distance from the spotlight and everything that comes along with that, the groundedness and requirement to go to class, the ability to be somewhat anonymous in your day to day life vs. being a celebrity, the lack of a gigantic fan base and booster organization and the things that come along with that, and the advantages of being in a secluded spot with access to a big city. If you could sum up the advantages of Georgetown in one word it'd be probably be 'privacy' - which is completely antithetical of the "notoriety" you are defending and promoting. Again...you are making a comparison on your sense of righteouness to that of an 18 year old. There is nothing disgusting about him having a press conference like that. He is a kid! You cannot really expect him to think like you do. I mean you have a picture of a guy fro a show that was popular 20 years before the kid was even born. Stop treating him like he is a man of your generation. I don't like his hair. But he is a kid and I am from a different era. If we want to call something disgusting, lets talk about our obsessive following of a kids life like he is our child. Did any of you have a problem a few weeks ago when his decision was scheduled in this fashion. who are we to speak to the authenticity of his process and whether or not he was sincere or not. You have to be able to step away and see the negative perspective that you are taking towards a kid that you would not be expousing if he put on a different color hat last night. We should not assume that the coaches were not notified before the announcement was made. ANd as far as the the suspense of it all, IT IS A TV SHOW! Would we really have watched it if he announced in the first 5 minutes? Of course not. Notoriety and Fame are by definition synonyms because they both refer to being WIDELY KNOWN or Recognized. So no matter what sort of personal feeling you have about what the words infer the using of the term is appropriate. And don't presume to know what the coaching staff uses as selling point s for a prorgam. Come on man. The things that you name are what YOU think they should sell the program as. You are not a coach for gtown. By all Accounts in 1987 alonzo had tremendous hoopla around his recruitment and tremendous attention. Of course there was no social media so it did not get embedded into peoples day the same way buy that doesnt mean that if it wasnt around that you wouldnt have the same thing with him that people had with NN. And the irony in that comparison is that ZO picking gtown was pretty comparable to NN picking UK. The same way haters with littel actual insight accused gtown of bringing in teams full of people who could not make it in the classroom is the same way people swear that they have check stubs to recruits from the UK basketball office. All conjecture that is usually spurned by some form of jealousy. GTOWN was the UK in 1987. The host popular program that everyone considered. In conclusion we should just be able to say, "You know I really did not like the whole production of the press conf last night" and leave it at that. But the personal character criticisms of a kid for doing something that most any kid would consider exciting or fun is uncalled for.
|
|
blueandgray
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,767
|
Post by blueandgray on Apr 12, 2012 10:19:49 GMT -5
Why are we start talking about this clown? Shut it down and focus your attention on Devenonte Pollard.....Hoya Blue needs to do the same.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 10:21:37 GMT -5
Can we talk about the hats? The UK and SU hats were the same make and model, simple, straightforward, and ours was some butt-ugly thing from, what, 1989? Where the hell did they find that hat? Did someone at ESPN just search "ugly Hoya hat" on ebay? It looked like someone was intentionally trying to make us look like an afterthought...which I wouldn't put past any of those Cuse yahoos at ESPN.
|
|
EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
|
Post by EasyEd on Apr 12, 2012 10:24:51 GMT -5
Mr. Noel: Hop, Moses, Tyler and Nate thank you.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,468
Member is Online
|
Post by TC on Apr 12, 2012 10:36:13 GMT -5
Notoriety and Fame are by definition synonyms because they both refer to being WIDELY KNOWN or Recognized. So no matter what sort of personal feeling you have about what the words infer the using of the term is appropriate. Notoriety and infamy are synonyms. Notoriety and fame are not. Okay, if you were the Coach of Georgetown, how would YOU sell the program over Kentucky and Syracuse truthfully and sincerely? What advantages does Georgetown have over Kentucky and Syracuse to a player who only wants to stay for one year? All of which I agree with and none of which apply to Georgetown 25 years later.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Apr 12, 2012 10:38:56 GMT -5
Mr. Noel: Hop, Moses, Tyler and Nate thank you. WTH does this even mean?
|
|
rpn6
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_green.png)
Posts: 257
|
Post by rpn6 on Apr 12, 2012 10:41:33 GMT -5
Anyone who says we didn't need Noel or that he is a bad fit are just kidding themselves. There is a reason that the teams who are usually left standing in the elite 8 etc have 2+ nba players on them. We have Otto, who still hasn't shown the consistency to create his own shot, and that's about it. Lets stop kidding ourselves but also move on to Upshaw and Pollard. Also I don't think kentucky is a top 15 team next year with their current roster.
|
|
kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
|
Post by kchoya on Apr 12, 2012 10:42:17 GMT -5
The Hallmark Channel is "cheesy". This was disgusting. Do you know what notoriety is? It's different from fame. Alonzo did have a press conference - thanks Google News archives - but every article I've read about it starts with how the other coaches were informed privately in advance vs. entire fan bases being led on by orchestrated lies, and quite honestly, Georgetown is in a completely different position recruiting from 1987 - that was 25 years ago. The selling points then were to play in a nationally competitive program for a social icon and to be in the national spotlight. The selling point now of the program is the small size, the distance from the spotlight and everything that comes along with that, the groundedness and requirement to go to class, the ability to be somewhat anonymous in your day to day life vs. being a celebrity, the lack of a gigantic fan base and booster organization and the things that come along with that, and the advantages of being in a secluded spot with access to a big city. If you could sum up the advantages of Georgetown in one word it'd be probably be 'privacy' - which is completely antithetical of the "notoriety" you are defending and promoting. Again...you are making a comparison on your sense of righteouness to that of an 18 year old. There is nothing disgusting about him having a press conference like that. He is a kid! You cannot really expect him to think like you do. I mean you have a picture of a guy fro a show that was popular 20 years before the kid was even born. Stop treating him like he is a man of your generation. I don't like his hair. But he is a kid and I am from a different era. If we want to call something disgusting, lets talk about our obsessive following of a kids life like he is our child. Did any of you have a problem a few weeks ago when his decision was scheduled in this fashion. who are we to speak to the authenticity of his process and whether or not he was sincere or not. You have to be able to step away and see the negative perspective that you are taking towards a kid that you would not be expousing if he put on a different color hat last night. We should not assume that the coaches were not notified before the announcement was made. ANd as far as the the suspense of it all, IT IS A TV SHOW! Would we really have watched it if he announced in the first 5 minutes? Of course not. Notoriety and Fame are by definition synonyms because they both refer to being WIDELY KNOWN or Recognized. So no matter what sort of personal feeling you have about what the words infer the using of the term is appropriate. And don't presume to know what the coaching staff uses as selling point s for a prorgam. Come on man. The things that you name are what YOU think they should sell the program as. You are not a coach for gtown. By all Accounts in 1987 alonzo had tremendous hoopla around his recruitment and tremendous attention. Of course there was no social media so it did not get embedded into peoples day the same way buy that doesnt mean that if it wasnt around that you wouldnt have the same thing with him that people had with NN. And the irony in that comparison is that ZO picking gtown was pretty comparable to NN picking UK. The same way haters with littel actual insight accused gtown of bringing in teams full of people who could not make it in the classroom is the same way people swear that they have check stubs to recruits from the UK basketball office. All conjecture that is usually spurned by some form of jealousy. GTOWN was the UK in 1987. The host popular program that everyone considered. In conclusion we should just be able to say, "You know I really did not like the whole production of the press conf last night" and leave it at that. But the personal character criticisms of a kid for doing something that most any kid would consider exciting or fun is uncalled for. It was not a check stub, it was Emery Air envelope.
|
|
RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
|
Post by RDF on Apr 12, 2012 10:52:09 GMT -5
Not nearly as upset as a lot of you because I was terrified he was going to Syracuse--and can live with Kentucky. That makes sense basketball wise. The show itself--that's nature of beast. If Ewing/Mourning etc...came along these days--the same type of environment would surround their recruitment. I don't blame the young man--he's just doing what many do and he warned everyone he was going to do something "special" for his announcement. Guess because I follow CFB recruiting-this stuff doesn't bother me. Not like some of those guys do it either--at least he didn't pick up the Hoya hat, and then throw it down/away and unveil a UK jersey-as you see with CFB recruits constantly partake in.
A few issues that need to be considered:
1. Hoyas team didn't lose last night--they never had him. So you have a nice nucleus returning and need to add a few parts--that is still very achievable. Told a few Hoya fans last night--i'm much more concerned with the fallout of Noel picking UK/Muhammed UCLA in regards to Devonta Pollard. Watchout for Kentucky to push for him now that Muhammed picked Bruins and that's why this weekend is huge for Hoyas. Need to lock him up this weekend before Kentucky convinces him to take a visit.
2. Upshaw becomes a big time focus--and if Hoyas get him-they get a 3 year minimum player and offensive weapon at the 5 spot. Guy is further along then Hibbert offensively and cut body fat from 30% to 13% last year--so he's willing to work. Legit 7'0 and would be a great piece to program. If Hoyas land he/Pollard--they have a top 10 class.
3. I'm far more concerned with PG position and wish someone would become available or on the radar. DSR isn't a PG. He's coming off knee injuries in 2 of last 3 years (any knee injury is serious) and he's not a great athlete to begin with. He's an undersized 2G and that leaves Starks who is a ? mark going into his JR year and Jabril--who I know will work on his game but isn't a true PG either. That position has to be focal point of this program moving forward imo. Even if it's to get a quick/athletic ball handler over a skilled shooter-they need it.
4. The hate on Noel's game/impact is silly. Guy is a program changer and can impact games without scoring--and when you have that--it's a special talent. If he averages what Cosmopolitan said--that would be more then enough to justify his hype. He's also type that might end up staying 2 years in college--depending on how quickly he develops face up game and strength. If he wasn't that good--you think Georgetown would've went in as hard as they did with all the frontcourt depth they have?
5. TC mentioned Alonzo's recruitment and how it was different. Funny thing is--a lot of coaches complained about Pops relationship with Nike's (at the time) Sonny Vaccaro and how he was pushing Alonzo to Georgetown and making visits to see Zo and push him to Georgetown. Now I don't know if there is any validity to that-because I was 12 at time of recruitment, no internet/media coverage like you have today, but the rumors/allegations were fired from his finalists/whispered about. I think Alonzo was a Hoya lock due to his idolization of Patrick Ewing and success of program during 1980's--but just saying--those rumors/allegations were fired at Georgetown--specifically the relationship of Pops/Sonny--and remember Hoyas were flagship program for Nike (new uniforms/shoes for March, team gear, etc..UNC didn't become Nike affiliated until 1990's--same with Duke, Kentucky, etc...you had Gtown as "Force" school and Cuse/UNLV as "flight" schools-)
The "rumors" are just that. Dave Telep says early in day-and Dave is a wonderful guy--a true fan of game and doesn't do crap to promote ratings, etc..."none of the teams recruiting Nerlens knows where he's going", which from Telep's perspective is likely true--he isn't going to be in on the deals done behind closed doors--and minute he knew was when the kid had back to him/Biancardi and he could see UK in back of his head. But it was others "hearing Georgetown......" and they based that off what exactly? Dorcina had as much influence as all of us did in this recruitment. If you want to believe "mom had a lot to say about this"--Mom doesn't know what the hell is going on--her son went from home to play HS ball in New Hampshire, and what was her say there? Not like Everett HS is a challenged academic environment. Georgetown courted mom because that was how they had to--what were they going to do--try to win over Driscoll and Randolph? The two guys who moved him from Everett after DiBiaso got Georgetown involved?
As for those who speak to "ethics" in college sports, you need to understand how recruiting works. Coaches will claim another coach is dying, has Cancer, is a criminal, is leaving to take other jobs, has recruited over them, etc......and that is the NICE stuff that goes on. When you are in a multi million dollar industry and have pressure-you see how people handle it. The kids are getting used by adults who want to profit off them but claim they've "helped guide" them. Kid figures as long as I get paid--he's "helping". Well they dont' understand exchange rate-as in we're getting 6 figures--and you'll get most of it and when you turn pro-I get my cut from Agency running this charade. Kids don't understand that crap--they just figure it's fun/people want me to play there, this team wins/puts guys in league, I can go there....etc...and if you are going to talk up education-then don't waste time with guys like Noel--he's 2 years at best in college. I love Georgetown-but education is something that doesn't matter to a kid who is #1 recruit in country. He can go back to school or graduate if something happens to him injury wise-but he's in it to be a pro basketball player and I don't blame him and as a fan I love that I get to see elite players play in college--and wish he'd picked Georgetown--knowing he's not a student athlete but rather a temporary student and full time athlete. I know what Hoya program stands for-guys go to class, graduate, etc...so if they take a 1 and done--fine by me. It's just 1 guy out of entire team of 13.
As for Kentucky, the reason they didn't have their guys enter draft at this week's deadline. Their prospects are set in where they are going or in Lamb's case he can guage whether he's going or not-rumors are he could stay-but they also make sure these guys attend their classes and later you make decision--closer to end of semester you are-and you can mock how invested they are--but as long as they do this and even if it's just in appearance--NCAA can't punish them/how they are running their program.
Main thing is for Hoyas to focus on what they can control--and that's to finish up strong with 1/2 recruits to finish this class up and then offseason development. Coaches can work with players in offseason this year--individually and that has changed from past years. Push hard for improvement/add a few pieces and still on upward track. Upshaw for Georgetown isn't a step down from Noel--he's perfect fit and brings a lot--but he's not Noel's upside/defensive presence. Noel would've brought III a different player than what people associate with program and that was the biggest benefit aside from getting a talented player. But Upshaw is someone program has proven they can develop (Roy--like) and utilize and he would make game a lot easier for teammates. Pollard moves Whittington to 2 guard and you can throw Porter/Pollard/Whittington at people and that trio takes a backseat to nobody in terms of wing talent-I think Whittington is a more talented player then Hollis-just not the shooter--although I think he will be by time he's done.
PG/Lead Guard is key to next year's team--and would've been even if Nerlens decided on Georgetown. That spot produces--this is a BE/BET championship contender.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Apr 12, 2012 10:55:34 GMT -5
Mr. Noel: Hop, Moses, Tyler and Nate thank you. WTH does this even mean? It means that their minutes would all have been impacted by NN coming.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 11:04:45 GMT -5
And if the tweets and blogs weren't actually written by Nerlens himself, then what? Do not blame the kid. He has had people hanging off of him since he was in middle school with their eyes on a potential pay day. Could/should he surround himself with better people? Probably, but I've never been in his position so I can't judge him for it. From knowing the little of him that I do - He's not a jerk, nor is their much of an ego. Those who surround him are a different story. And the people that HATE what has unfolded with his career will be the first to say he's a good kid at heart. If Georgetown is 'above' certain things, then we as a fan-base should be above taking a 17 year old to task when we do not know the fully story. Just my 2 cents. +10000 and add my 2 cents 2
|
|