FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 19, 2010 8:58:52 GMT -5
Could that possibly be related to the new ball? Anyone know? That, combined with the altitude, seems to be the consensus. It's certainly worse than in previous years. Slovenia's opening goal yesterday was the first of the tournament scored from outside the 18 not aided by a deflection or goalkeeper gaffe.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 19, 2010 10:31:44 GMT -5
Just got around to reading ESPN's Rick Reilly's piece on how to improve the World Cup. #1 of course is the Vuvuzelas. Below is an excerpt I found pretty funny about the refs and the yellow cards. World Cup buzz kill - by Rick Reilly Excerpt 6. The yellow cards. I love the way the refs come running up to the player as though he has just taken out a chainsaw and sawed somebody's hand off. The ref looks very stern and upset. And then all the ref does is snap his little yellow piece of paper out of his shirt pocket and stick it in the offender's face, as though the little yellow card has some kind of superpower. As if to say, "Ha! you are powerless against my little yellow piece of paper, which shows your less-than-average marks from third grade!" I'd love to see that in the middle of an NBA fight. Can you imagine seeing some ref come running up to Rasheed Wallace after laying out Carmelo Anthony with a roundhouse right and sticking that yellow card right in his face? He'd soon be digesting it through his ear hole.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 19, 2010 12:28:34 GMT -5
Question for knowledgeable fans.
If the Ref HAD called one of the many fouls on Slovenia on that disallowed goal, what would have happened? the US scored anyway. Would they get a penalty kick too? Or do they say, "ok, the US already scored on this play, so the penalty is moot"? or something else?
Thanks
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RusskyHoya
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Post by RusskyHoya on Jun 19, 2010 21:55:18 GMT -5
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 20, 2010 4:24:06 GMT -5
Question for knowledgeable fans. If the Ref HAD called one of the many fouls on Slovenia on that disallowed goal, what would have happened? the US scored anyway. Would they get a penalty kick too? Or do they say, "ok, the US already scored on this play, so the penalty is moot"? or something else? Thanks Ideally, if the referee had spotted a foul on Slovenia in that situation, he would have paused the extra second to let the "advantage" (in this case the in-swerving free kick) play itself out. Since Maurice Edu ultimately volleyed the ball into the net, you allow the goal as the continuation of the "advantage" gained by the attacking team. No penalty kick is awarded--the goal negates the need for that. (These sorts of situations are of course more eloquently described in FIFA's Laws of the Game). Here's a great example of a situation where a referee correctly elected to allow the advantage to continue rather than make the initial call (which would have been an obvious penalty kick) and the result was a goal (starts at the 2:55 mark):
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 20, 2010 8:52:48 GMT -5
Thanks FL Hoya. Good to have a former soccer ref on the board!
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Jun 20, 2010 10:52:39 GMT -5
Suck Italian hanger ons! Way to go All Whites!
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 20, 2010 13:25:52 GMT -5
The Englsh team is a mess, the Italians were tied by NZ but the French take the cake. 0-1-1 after the first two games, the team of prima donnas imploded! France director resigns amid disarrayExcerpt A draw, a loss, a tantrum and now chaos for Les Bleus.
France's World Cup team refused to train Sunday in protest of striker Nicolas Anelka's expulsion from the squad, prompted by a profanity-laced tirade against coach Raymond Domenech the day before.
The latest round of turbulence also led to the resignation of France team director Jean-Louis Valentin, who said he was fed up with the team.
"It's a scandal for the French, for the young people here. It's a scandal for the federation and the French team," Valentin said. "They don't want to train. It's unacceptable." This drama sounds more like something that should be in TheStig's F1 thread!
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 20, 2010 13:32:43 GMT -5
I am trying to figure out some arrangement of these four words that forms a coherent sentence. ;D
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Jun 20, 2010 14:42:26 GMT -5
Seriously, do these officials get paid?
Brazil's the better team, but still. Jeezum Crow. Can we get one day without a complete botch by the refs?
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 20, 2010 14:46:08 GMT -5
Seriously, do these officials get paid? Brazil's the better team, but still. Jeezum Crow. Can we get one day without a complete botch by the refs? Did you just see the replay where the ref was running back with Fabiano laughing and gesturing towards his arm, and Fabiano was shaking his head indicating "no handball"? That just looked wildly inappropriate to me.
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Post by strummer8526 on Jun 20, 2010 15:21:04 GMT -5
And what in the hell was that about?! A player runs into another who raises his arm to stop the guy from crashing into him, his arm gently touches the other guy's torso, and the out-of-control player drops to the ground grabbing his face.
--> Second yellow card?
Did every soccer player in the world go to Coach K's acting camp?
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jun 20, 2010 16:22:09 GMT -5
Seriously, do these officials get paid? Brazil's the better team, but still. Jeezum Crow. Can we get one day without a complete botch by the refs? Did you just see the replay where the ref was running back with Fabiano laughing and gesturing towards his arm, and Fabiano was shaking his head indicating "no handball"? That just looked wildly inappropriate to me. Amen. That was just awful - both the ref's attitude and Fabiano's lying. Soccer really needs to take a page out of the NHL's book to cut down on the theatrics. Penalize players for embellishment, even if they've been fouled. Yellow cards for players who dive when they haven't been touched, red cards if they dive when they haven't been touched in the penalty area. Have FIFA or the domestic leagues review tapes of matches and hand out big fines for diving/embellishment that increase for multiple offenses. These theatrics are a real scourge that need to be eliminated from the game, and nothing short of draconian measures will do that. Of course, since the soccer powers who control FIFA are major soccer powers partly because they're masters of diving, such measures will never be taken.
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jun 20, 2010 21:32:24 GMT -5
Did you just see the replay where the ref was running back with Fabiano laughing and gesturing towards his arm, and Fabiano was shaking his head indicating "no handball"? That just looked wildly inappropriate to me. Amen. That was just awful - both the ref's attitude and Fabiano's lying. Soccer really needs to take a page out of the NHL's book to cut down on the theatrics. Penalize players for embellishment, even if they've been fouled. Yellow cards for players who dive when they haven't been touched, red cards if they dive when they haven't been touched in the penalty area. Have FIFA or the domestic leagues review tapes of matches and hand out big fines for diving/embellishment that increase for multiple offenses. These theatrics are a real scourge that need to be eliminated from the game, and nothing short of draconian measures will do that. Of course, since the soccer powers who control FIFA are major soccer powers partly because they're masters of diving, such measures will never be taken. in fact they they already do what you suggest. they have tried to cut down on it. Players who dive egregiously (at the opinion of the ref) are supposed to be given yellow cards. For example the dive in the italy game today should have been not called and the italian carded for that one. I forget if this is for only in the penalty box...but in any case yes they have tried to cut down on it
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 20, 2010 23:45:33 GMT -5
Although referees are instructed by FIFA to show divers yellow cards, I haven't seen it in the games with the usual suspect divers (like Brazil & Italy) and the divers of teams that are ahead and are just trying to kill time. IMO, players have cut down on the diving inside the penalty area because the cards were coming out.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 20, 2010 23:47:21 GMT -5
Seriously, do these officials get paid? Brazil's the better team, but still. Jeezum Crow. Can we get one day without a complete botch by the refs? Did you just see the replay where the ref was running back with Fabiano laughing and gesturing towards his arm, and Fabiano was shaking his head indicating "no handball"? That just looked wildly inappropriate to me. It was shameful. Don't these guys realize that they have hundreds of cameras on them?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 21, 2010 0:00:10 GMT -5
And what in the hell was that about?! A player runs into another who raises his arm to stop the guy from crashing into him, his arm gently touches the other guy's torso, and the out-of-control player drops to the ground grabbing his face. --> Second yellow card? Did every soccer player in the world go to Coach K's acting camp? I replayed this one a couple of times. It looked to me like the IC player was jogging towards the opposite goal while looking back and when he turned around, he ran into Kaká's shoulder and it connected with the IC player's jaw. Kaká moved his shoulder in a blocking motion. After his first yellow in the 85th minute, Kaká was warned for taunting very close to when the incident happened. The smart move should have been for Dunga to remove Kaká after his first card.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 21, 2010 0:12:27 GMT -5
Question for knowledgeable fans. If the Ref HAD called one of the many fouls on Slovenia on that disallowed goal, what would have happened? the US scored anyway. Would they get a penalty kick too? Or do they say, "ok, the US already scored on this play, so the penalty is moot"? or something else? Thanks Ideally, if the referee had spotted a foul on Slovenia in that situation, he would have paused the extra second to let the "advantage" (in this case the in-swerving free kick) play itself out. Since Maurice Edu ultimately volleyed the ball into the net, you allow the goal as the continuation of the "advantage" gained by the attacking team. No penalty kick is awarded--the goal negates the need for that. (These sorts of situations are of course more eloquently described in FIFA's Laws of the Game). Here's a great example of a situation where a referee correctly elected to allow the advantage to continue rather than make the initial call (which would have been an obvious penalty kick) and the result was a goal (starts at the 2:55 mark): FL's explanation is correct. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that before kick-off of the US-Slovenia game, when the refs were presented to the public, the announcer said that the ref was from Mali and worked in the financial world. I got a funny feeling...
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jun 21, 2010 0:17:05 GMT -5
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 21, 2010 2:46:05 GMT -5
Amen. That was just awful - both the ref's attitude and Fabiano's lying. Soccer really needs to take a page out of the NHL's book to cut down on the theatrics. Penalize players for embellishment, even if they've been fouled. Yellow cards for players who dive when they haven't been touched, red cards if they dive when they haven't been touched in the penalty area. Have FIFA or the domestic leagues review tapes of matches and hand out big fines for diving/embellishment that increase for multiple offenses. These theatrics are a real scourge that need to be eliminated from the game, and nothing short of draconian measures will do that. Of course, since the soccer powers who control FIFA are major soccer powers partly because they're masters of diving, such measures will never be taken. I mean, embellishment/feigning injury under the Laws of the Game is under the umbrella category of "unsporting behavior" which is one of the types of misconduct for which you can receive a yellow card. From time to time you'll hear that FIFA/a regional soccer governing body has made it a point of emphasis to referees to cut down on diving. I can't remember if that came up this World Cup or specifically which past tournaments diving has come up as a POI--the only two things that come to mind that have been discussed a lot in the media as POIs this World Cup are defenders wrestling with opponents on free kicks (I know! ) and feigning a shot on a penalty kick (the Cristiano Ronaldo Rule). Ultimately however, it's up to the referee to have the stones to make the call and award a yellow card when it happens. I was struggling to think of a similar call in other sports...where it's a judgment call that comes around once in a while and doesn't get called a lot but probably should...maybe palming the ball in basketball? The only thing I can say from experience--it's harder than you'd think to determine a dive at full speed unless it's very blatant. In a lot of situations, there's at least SOME contact, and if the referee doesn't believe it warrants a foul they...just don't call a foul. Some players are especially theatrical of course, and that's certainly annoying. And of course, if you feign injury to draw a phantom call, that really grinds my gears. The most prominent example I could think of where someone was burned for diving was in the 2002 World Cup Round of 16 match between Italy and South Korea. Francesco Totti got his second yellow card and was sent off in the first period of extra time b/c the referee judged he took a dive in an attempt to draw a penalty (keep in mind, in this WC the Golden Goal rule was in play). The play starts at the 5:25 mark of the video, and there's a close-up slow-mo replay that follows. You can judge for yourself whether you agree:
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