thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Jun 18, 2010 14:20:44 GMT -5
It was worse than the Henry handball in that it's one thing to miss something and not make a call when you should have. In my opinion it's more egregious to call something where there is nothing. Not to mention that in this case the ref did both things at once- he called something that blatantly did NOT happen while missing a blatant penalty foul (or two) on Slovenia. He basically took two goals away from the US. That's some prodiguous screwing up.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Jun 18, 2010 14:25:21 GMT -5
It's generally speaking something you should never say even if it is sometimes true, but in this case, it is ABSURD to say that Slovenia were the better team. They had two shots on goal in the first half- and they made them count. But that's it. The US scored 3 goals and had 3-4 more very serious scares. Serbia scored 2 and that's it.
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by thebin on Jun 18, 2010 14:28:56 GMT -5
Can we agree that Serbia, Slovenia and Slovakia can never be allowed in the same tournament at once again? It's taxing me.
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TBird41
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TBird41 on Jun 18, 2010 14:48:52 GMT -5
Gooch looked great against England, but yeah, he really sucked today. Bocanegra is showing his miles too. Dolo has been the rock back there. They could always put Bornstein back there. You know he's ready...
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by vcjack on Jun 18, 2010 15:22:12 GMT -5
England Algeria Slovenia Yanks
arrogance at it's finest
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Nevada Hoya
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Post by Nevada Hoya on Jun 18, 2010 15:23:01 GMT -5
England nil, Algeria nil.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 18, 2010 15:23:30 GMT -5
So we advance with a win now, regardless of what happens in the England-Slovenia game, right?
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Post by williambraskyiii on Jun 18, 2010 15:26:43 GMT -5
And, since it was a 0-0 draw, we have a nice chance to take first in the group if we beat algeria and england salvages its Cup with a win against Slovenia.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jun 18, 2010 15:28:21 GMT -5
Well, well, well....
England draws Algeria 0-0, meaning the US now controls its own fate. If we beat Algeria, we're through.
That said, beating Algeria won't be as easy as some think. They played very well against England, and thoroughly deserved the point.
The US could also advance on a draw if England and Slovenia have a low-scoring draw, if my math is right.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Jun 18, 2010 15:30:03 GMT -5
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 18, 2010 15:41:21 GMT -5
So we advance with a win now, regardless of what happens in the England-Slovenia game, right? Yes, and also if both games ended in a tie...provided it isn't ENG-SLO 2-2 and USA-ALG 0-0, in which case I'm pretty sure they'd be down to drawing lots. England's in the slightly more precarious position right now. The World Cup has really turned around in the second cycle of games. Today was arresting television--although I woke up after Klose earned his second yellow card. Really makes you question your assumptions. Germany looked like the class of the tournament in all the pundits' eyes after the Australia win, and it was becoming a big deal for the USA/ENG to win Group C and avoid the Germans in the Round of 16. Now Germany's got a tricky game against Ghana without one of their key players, and the USA and England are sitting in 2nd and 3rd behind Slovenia. Both of the afternoon games were roller coasters in their own right. Stunning (but deserved) first half for the USA, but a great comeback and like the Mexico-South Africa game, a wide open last 15 minutes once Bradley went to the 3-4-3 lineup (and that second goal happens because Gomez was occupying his defender). The England game...I mean, Alexi Lalas is turning into world class d bag on the studio show, but he's kind of right: England's obviously very overrated. What. The. Heck. Was. That. On the plus side, Wayne Rooney yelled at a cameraman after the game, so at least we know he's alive. Algeria barely sniffed the goalmouth and honestly were the better team, and it didn't really feel all that stressful pulling for the tie. What does the US do with Algeria? Algeria's still in the mix, so they'll play to win...but they aren't exactly an offensive powerhouse (as many goals in SA as the Hoyatalk All Star XI!). Need a first 15 minutes goal like nothing else. And, since it was a 0-0 draw, we have a nice chance to take first in the group if we beat algeria and england salvages its Cup with a win against Slovenia. This is an important point. Although it depends on the margin...if our margin over Algeria were = or greater than England's over Slovenia, we're good. A lot can change, but suffice it to say--the Group C winner's half of the bracket is much easier.
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rosslynhoya
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Post by rosslynhoya on Jun 18, 2010 15:55:18 GMT -5
Totally OT, but that slogan would look great on a GU logo shirt.
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MEGAFAN
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Post by MEGAFAN on Jun 18, 2010 16:18:42 GMT -5
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 18, 2010 16:46:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the link Megafan! Good to see you posting! Yes, Wynalda said what I and others have been thinking. By the way -- did it seem to everyone else that ESPN has toned down the crowd noise to dampen the Vuvuzela impact? Finally - where ARE you these day? Tokyo? USA?
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FLHoya
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Post by FLHoya on Jun 18, 2010 16:49:15 GMT -5
He was atrocious all day, just wasn't up for this stage. I'm going to go ahead and speculate that FIFA really wanted some African refs and this guy had no business doing this game. Sucks when you get smacked in the face by a ball and the ref kicks you out of the next World Cup game for it. Findley is highly replaceable though....in fact Buddle should have played instead of him. Despite scoring the game winning goal, Edu shouldn't get back out there. Didn't like what I saw other than the goal on Lando's awesome service. The referees for the World Cup are distributed among the confederations roughly equal to how many teams qualify from that region--Africa is actually under-represented with 3 officials and 5 qualified teams. I guess the question for me is how does one tell if a referee is sufficiently up to the challenge and pressure of a World Cup? I would guess most lists of the best referees in the world (like this one: www.iffhs.de/?28e43c03f32b00f36b55a66117f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e1e) would be heavy on European officials...and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that assessment. I'd also argue that certainly the high quality of European domestic leagues and the UEFA Champions League/Europa League circuit gives Euro referees plenty of regular practice in high pressure situations that would prepare them for something like the World Cup. But is it a chicken vs. egg thing? Would African, Asian, North American, etc. officials be just as well regarded given more practice at high profile matches? At the end of the day, it is what it is. You go with the experience available to you--in Coulibay's case the much discussed African Cup of Nations 2010 Final, probably a fair share of African WC qualifiers, and whatever domestic league exists in Mali. He didn't exactly radiate competence or calmness out there on the pitch. While it's a big leap from my own refereeing experience in High School to referees at the highest level of their profession...one observation I would make is that some of the "tightest" and probably worst games I refereed were when I was in situations--my first game working beyond rec leagues, my first time working with players several years older than me, a well attended contentious state tournament game where 90% of the crowd spoke Spanish--where I was punching a bit above my weight class. I tended to compensate by calling games progressively tighter as they went along to maintain control and it came off in retrospect as very inconsistent. That's the danger with the World Cup--it's SUCH a high-pressure situation that really few if any officials can be adequately prepared for it. I reckon it's much worse for officials who don't have many opportunities for high profile internationals. The consistent complaint about officiating at the World Cup from commentators in the past two tournaments has been they're too harsh with yellow/red cards compared with [insert domestic league X]. That always struck me as a natural consequence of the intense pressure referees are under...not to mention so many points of emphasis FIFA lays out every WC. To be fair, its not limited to the newcomer African official either. The Spanish referee for the Germany-Serbia game got some flak for the high number of cards today, and he's got 6 years of int'l experience and a U-20 WC Final to his credit. The shambolic Portugal-Netherlands cardfest in 2006 was refereed by Valentin Ivanov, who had plenty of UEFA Champions League games to his credit. On that website with referee rankings, #5 on the 2002 list: www.iffhs.de/?28e43c03f32b00f36b55a66b17f7370eff3702bb1c2bbb6e00 is Hugh Dallas...who blew the Torsten Frings handball in the 2002 USA-Germany quarterfinal. The one true lesson from this is one we constantly heard as referees in the classroom: if at the end of the game nobody remembers or talks about your performance, that's probably the best thing. If I had to guess, the further into the knockout rounds, the more you'll see a high number of European/South American officials, and perhaps the Uzbek (of all places) guy Ravshan Irmatov who did a great job with both the opening match and England-Algeria.
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Post by AustinHoya03 on Jun 18, 2010 16:52:56 GMT -5
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jacko
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GET SOME
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Post by jacko on Jun 19, 2010 2:09:33 GMT -5
That deadspin article referred to the USMNT, and my first thought was: "mutant ninja turtles?" Not the worst nickname in the world...
And a soccer-related observation: what would have made the US/Slovenia game enjoyable to watch to someone with no rooting interest is the fact that the players from both sides were generally able to keep their shots down (that is, except for Donovan's goal, which probably would have landed in the second deck if not for the top netting). I find some of these games unwatchable because every shot goes 20+ feet above the crossbar.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 19, 2010 6:29:53 GMT -5
I find some of these games unwatchable because every shot goes 20+ feet above the crossbar. Could that possibly be related to the new ball? Anyone know?
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Jun 19, 2010 7:28:12 GMT -5
Source: FIFA may sit Slovenia-U.S. refereeExcerptJOHANNESBURG – The referee who disallowed a potential game-winning goal for the United States will face an expedited performance review from FIFA and is likely to be excluded from the rest of the World Cup, according to a FIFA source......
Every World Cup match is viewed live by an on-site assessor who monitors the referee’s performance. However, in this case, a deeper assessment will take place at the earliest possible opportunity. That this is happening so quickly suggests FIFA is taking the complaints about Coulibaly seriously and is likely to leave him unassigned to referee further matches, according to the source.
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The Stig
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Post by The Stig on Jun 19, 2010 8:56:23 GMT -5
I find some of these games unwatchable because every shot goes 20+ feet above the crossbar. Could that possibly be related to the new ball? Anyone know? That, combined with the altitude, seems to be the consensus. It's certainly worse than in previous years.
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