2009 Kenner Summer League Discussion Thread

[sleepy]

Aug 3, 2009 16:37:51 GMT -5 dense said:

I would agree that in the 2nd half he was going one-on-one crazy in the 2nd half, my post you quoted said as much, the 1st half wasnt like that at all. And Jon for the most part wasnt guarding Chris...Austin was. As for him doin that durning the season I dont think he will as much because of the offense we run and its Kenner, its weighted towards the guards. But DCX beat the doors off the Tombs. so i dont know how you can take a negative out of that.

The 1st half of the game he was setting-up Mo Creek and Greg very well. The other game was exactly the same type of Chris. i like that his drives aren't ending uop with wild shots over defenders like last year. He has a plan...Thats what I meant, not that he sets it up....I think thats where we are differing in opinion. Chris will never be like Jon in his approach and I dont want him to be.



That play with Jeff it seemed more like he was like Okay I'm going to get a basket and you guys cant stop me, if I really want it. He just blew by Greg

I agree completely. Chris definitely has a plan when he is drinving, and I don't think its just luck that he is finishing at a much higher rate this year in Kenner then he did in past years. He is taking shots he knows he can make where as in the past he was trying to find a scoring opportunity when he drove.
The second half he was definitely being more careless with the ball, and looking to set himself up more when Greg was out, but thats just summer league. I would rather have Chris take some ill-advised jump shots in Kenner if it helps him work on his form for games.
And really lets not compare Wallace and Wright anymore, two totally different players with totally different abilites who just happen to play the same position.

[lichoya68]

chris VERY STONG very high up to the rim and this year so far much less getting stuck among the trees and not finishing or kicking the ball out I THINK HES PLAYING MUCH BETTER ADN SMARTER we will see how he does vs. the trees in teh regular season adn big east with the big guys but so far he is improved where he needs to be improved now if henry and julian can keep getting better and be our two headed center HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM ITS ALMOST FEBURARY FOR SURE GO HOYAS

[bigelephant]

What's happening in February?

[skyhoya]

Duke

[lichoya68]

somebody explain the february thing pleaseeeeeeeeeee i have enough trouble SPELLING february ok???

[sleepy]

Well, I think what he means, though do not know, February is the most important month of the season. It is when you either become a great team, or falter. Seasons are made in February, conferences are won in February, February basically sets up any March run you have. Atleast thats what I think and I think that might be what Lic means, though I am not certain.

[skyhoya]

The run to the final four was made possible by the team getting it all together in February after a less than stellar season start with some losses that no one expected. Let's not discuss last year's february, just move on.

[CaliHoya]

**DISCLAIMER: The analysis in this post is still too premature, so take it for what it's worth. But hopefully, it at least adds some perspective.**

I saw 3 out of the first 4 days at Kenner and then had to move out to California (really happy that the Hoyas are coming out here this year, btw). Anyhow, I absolutely loved Kenner and was glad to experience it for myself for the first time.

I am really looking forward to reports on the rest of Kenner to help round out my opinions, but here's what I thought about the players:

Chris Wright: I only saw him Sunday, but he definitely improved his quickness and now looks as cut as Jameer Nelson in terms of strength. I already thought his handle was good last year and it looked to have improved too as I never saw careless turnovers as he continually drove to the hoop. His strength allows him to finish despite absorbing contact, so it was fun to see him take it at Jeff and finish with ease. This was one game and is Kenner, so I won't hold the fact against him that he didn't run an offense and shot without passing sometimes.

Jason Clark: My favorite player so far. The guy is just a workhorse who is a different player with his improved handle. I know seeing 3 games is still a small sample, but it was amazing seeing him run the point, be able to race down the court and dunk over guys like beasley, dribble between the legs and behind is back effortlessly and repeatedly, etc. And his shot seems to have improved as well with his scoring outbursts. Overall, I think he can be a matchup nightmare for opponents due to his speed, handle, long arms and boundless energy. More on him later.

Vee Sanford: I think he's a solid addition to the team. While I think he'll just be good for 5-10 minutes as a backup guard, the guy is athletic enough to be a solid Big East player throughout his career. He already has a good handle and has speed enough to surprise defenders. My favorite part of his game is his vision - he made some of the prettiest passes I saw from Hoyas, such as outlets straight off a defensive rebound and one-handed bounce passes through traffic to a big man under the hoop. Lastly, he's an above-average rebounder for a guard.

Austin Freeman: I am happy that many think he is much slimmer, but I just don't see it. Sure, maybe he looks a bit more cut, but I did not notice much more speed or jumping ability from Austin. However, as usual, Austin is probably the best on the team in terms of creating in tight spaces, finishing and drawing contact. He normally always scored or got fouled on drives. My concern, which others have mentioned, is how this talent will translate in the coming year. If he will be limited to threes and backdoor cuts, than I fear he may not make a big leap. And even if he is able to drive more often, I still think he doesn't have the quickness or leaping ability to be able to avoid getting blocked my athletic big men.

Hollis Thompson: Can we say best coming out party at Kenner ever? I'm just talking about his first 5 seconds in which he took the jump ball and then was on the receiving end of a great alley-oop. In 5 seconds, he showed his superior athleticism. In that first game, he also showed his effortless stroke from deep, which I think might be the purest I have seen on our team since Jon Wallace. It has been well documented that Hollis has not got the ball enough in the past couple games, so he has not been as impressive since. Besides his shooting ability and athleticism, another thing that impressed me about Hollis is his rebounding. He's active on both the offensive and defensive glass and should be a good help when he is on the floor. However, he's still way too skinny to play the four in the Big East.

Jerrelle Benimon: Jerrelle has the tools and instincts to be a solid player for the Hoyas, but is probably still a year away from making a large impact.. Specifically, he is an active rebounder, decent shotblocker, and has some crafty moves in the paint (like his face-up cross-over). His big hold-up is his conditioning. He's strong, but not lean enough to leap high. I will say that he's not slow - he streaks down the court once he gets going. Overall, I think he'll be a player we'll mainly see in games that Sims, Vaughn and Monroe get in foul trouble; he'll probably have a Vaughn-like first season in which he shows some flashes and provide some frustration. I'm looking forward to seeing him improve and I like his attitude and effort.

Julian Vaughn: I missed the only day he played, so I sadly can't comment. I'm very excited to hear about his first performance and hope he keeps it up!

Henry Sims: I am a little disappointed with Henry. While I thought he was better than Roy as a freshman, he doesn't seem to have made the same 2nd year leap. While I know he had a big 30-point, 10 rebound game, he hasn't really created much scoring for himself as the vast majority of his points are set up by nice assists right under the basket. Thus, he can disappear for stretches when he is not being fed. The offensive boards he got were more rebounds that fell his way rather than him really going after it. I hope I am wrong, but as of now, I can't say he's an automatic starter and a Big East impact player.

Greg Monroe: I only saw Greg once as well, so I admit this analysis is of limited value. Overall, he didn't show me much that was new, but I am not overly concerned. We all know Greg isn't as intense in exhibition or Kenner league game and I'm sure he'll take it up a notch when the season begins. While I have heard reports of him hitting the gym hard, I unfortunately did not notice much added muscle - his arms looked about the same and his lower body still looked skinny. My wish list for him for the rest of Kenner and off-season is this: 1) hit the gym hard, especially the lower body so he can always get position, 2) up the energy level especially as a shot-blocking enforcer and rebounder. I think latter will happen and I hope the former as well.

I think this next section is pre-mature, but I can't help it.

In terms of starters next year, I cannot see how we keep Jason Clark from being a starter or playing starter-like minutes. That's how much he impressed me. I think he is more of a lock for starting that Hollis based on the games that I saw.

In terms of frontcourt, I really think we need either Vaughn or Sims to start alongside Greg since Hollis is too skinny for the defensive end. I want to hear more about Vaughn, but so far he sounds better than what I've seen from Henry - but I don't know enough to make that call. Lastly, I don't know how Nikita has progressed, but Hollis looks like an upgrade over what I saw from Nikita last year.

My starting five:
PG/SG Chris Wright
PG/SG Jason Clark (I think Wright and Clark are interchangeable at point given Clark's handle)
SF Austin Freeman
F Greg Monroe
F/C Julian Vaughn/Sims (not sure who)
6th: Hollis Thompson
B: Nikita Mescheriakov
B: Vee Sanford
B: Jerrelle Benimon

Whew, all done. Just wanted to reiterate that I know all of my analysis is too early and may look foolish come time for the season, but wanted to share my thoughts. Thanks for reading!

[sleepy]

Thanks Hoya, but your the only one I have talked to that hasn't noticed a marked improvement in Austins weight, speed and explosivness.
In regards to Henry, I think people might have been going in with too high expectations for him. From what I saw on Saturday and Sunday, he will be fine for us during the season. You can't expect him to make a huge leap like Roy until he really starts getting comfortable with his height and playing the post. With his passing and faceup game he will be a really good compliment to Monroe. But if your expecting a strong back to the basket game this year your going to be left disappointed because that will come with time. I could already see improvements from last year with him in that regard. Get him some playing time to get comforable and he will be fine.

With the starters, I Clarks handle is definitely improved, but I wouldn't say he is interchageable with Chris for a point guard. Its solid but he falls in love with it too much which will cause some turnovers as a point. I would prefer a Chris, Austin, Hollis, Henry/Monroe, Vaugh/Monroe, starting lineup next year. Reason one is to keep Austin in position now that he seems to be able to guard the other teams SG effectively. And reason two is because I think taking Clark off the bench would add a really nice spark, more so than Hollis, and give us a new dynamic when he steps on the court. With Clarks handle and Wrights new finishing skills a Wright/Clark backcourt could be deadly with speed sometimes.

[kghoya]

Starting Clark, Freeman, and Wright leaves you without an impact guard on the bench. It also leaves you small.

I hope we don't see that lineup.

[MCIGuy]

I concur with Sleepy and KG. We don't need to go small. And who cares if Henry and Hollis are still thin and learning? That's what college is for....for them to get better and develop. Let them do so in the starting lineup. Their upside is tremendous. I love Clark's upside too. I said last summer that if he gets a handle he is a pro....NBA pro. Has the quickness, the athleticism, a good looking shot, the ridiculous long arms, he gets the boards and he is potentially a terrific defender. He reminds me a bit of Rondo but with less playmaking skills at this point (but a better looking jumpshot). Nonetheless we need his scoring from off the bench this upcoming season. He'll still get at lest 20 minutes a game so its not a big deal if he comes off the bench. But III needs to put Hollis in that starting lineup. I want to see a real SF in the SF spot. The last time the Hoyas did that the results were pretty good.

[CaliHoya]

Definitely appreciate the feedback and respect everyone's opinions. I know Clark starting leaves us a little small, but Clark plays bigger than he is due to his long arms. I am not sure who is a better shooter between Hollis and Clark (Hollis' shot looks better, but Clark's has been going in just as much so far). If Hollis is a much better shooter, I think he should start over Clark. But otherwise, I think Clark is an above-average rebounder who can still cause plenty of disruption on offense. Either way, I expect both to get plenty of minutes.

[hoyas big supporter]

Well not only that but I'd definately be more comfortable having Austin at the two.. He is very out of place at the three and also someone mentioned that we need a spark coming off the bench to relieve Chris

[MCIGuy]

I don't want to seem as if I'm picking on HoyaPhatty. After all he took the time to watch some KL action and the write down in detail some interesting perspectives and valid arguments. But I want to go a little further in pointing out some issues where I disagree.

1)Austin : I think Austin’s athleticism is being undersold. He has enough athleticism to not only get by but thrive. Considering his body mass its amazing how quick and explosive and agile he at time can appear on the court. But even if one doesn’t buy into the positive reports regarding his weight loss, his renewed explosiveness and aggressiveness and his newly found ferocity (tomahawk dunking on folks), then can one at least admit that he may have the best midrange game on the team? That right now no one can drive and pull up for those midrange jumpers like he can. And even with his supposed weight issues last season he was still able to get his shot off against taller and more athletic players. If he gets his three point shooting percentage back up to his freshman year (40%) and uses that as a weapon to go along with his midrange game and his improve quickness the we have a guy who could be First Team All Big East. Just don’t have him start at SF though. Also while I think Freeman does have enough athletic ability to get his layups off drives over college big men, what people are forgetting is that he is so strong and big he can get to the line just by the contact he draws. Plus he is strong enough to finish inside for those “and ones”.


2) Henry : People should not try to measure Henry by comparing his frosh to sop jump to Roy Hibbert’s frosh to soph jump. Roy made one of the biggest jumps in the history of the Gtown program. John Thompson Junior said himself he could not remember anyone showing such drastic improvement from one season to the next. So its not fair to compare Henry or anyone else to that type of improvement Also Roy had a lot more distance to cover in terms of being a real solid player. Since he started, coming into college, at a much lower level than Henry it should not be a surprise that his level of improvement was virtually unmatched. Roy was starting from the bottom in many ways. Henry will be fine. He will get knocked around a bit this season but that’s part of growth and maturation for most players, especially big men. At sometime the light will go off and he will learn to stay his ground and fight back. He has a soft enough touch and enough skill that one day he will be a guy who will have a postup game that involves turn around jumpers and a faceup game that involves pullup jumpers. It just won’t happen overnight. I don’t think he will be challenging for any All Big East teams this season, but I think as the season goes on he will be much more of a presence and the game will slow down enough for him that eh will be more confident regarding what to do on the court. But in the meantime if all he mostly gives you on offense is a big man who can throw down off the drive and dish I have to ask what’s wrong with that? That was Joakin Noah’s prime offensive weapon in college and right now in the NBA. Ed Davis made a living off that last season for UNC and pundits starting placing him in the top three of the 2010 mock drafts. If Henry is able to ply a similar role for the Hoyas this coming season it will mean that defenses will still have to keep an eye on him. And if he can hit the short jumper to go along with that the defenses will have to keep a man on him.


3)Hollis: I’m only bringing up Hollis because HoyaPhatty is another person who has suggested playing Hollis at the four (although HoyaPhatty doesn’t think that will work). So I’m curious for folks to tell me how tall is Hollis. I’ve read he was guarding Henry at times and doing an effective job ad I’ve heard he was pulling down some tough rebounds. But if he is as lanky as everyone describes then he wouldn’t be able to do this if he was only 6’6. Even though a few people brush away any suggestion he is as tall as 6’9, I have to think he has to be around 6’8. Even in the picture with Alonzo and the guys he looked at least in the 6’7 to 6’8 range to me.

[HoyaSinceBirth]

Yeah i'm not sure what people were expecting from Henry but from what i've seen i've been encouraged. He has actually shown some post moves and made turn around jumpers. I'm not sure why people are saying he just scored on dump downs as if he wasn't being guarded when he scored any of his points. He's made plenty of solid moves. Plus I love the fact that he's been making dump downs and crashing the boards. He'll be able to do that all season off monroe and it will be great for the team.

[CaliHoya]

Hey MCI - thanks for the great reply; I'm glad my post has received productive feedback and loved hearing your thoughts as always.

1) I admit that I may be too hard on Austin possibly because of his disappointing season last year. I just have too many memories of him making nice plays and then getting swatted. But I realize the majority see marked improvement from him and I hope in that case that I am wrong in my opinion.

2) I don't think throwing down the drive and dish is enough for Henry. Otherwise, much less talented centers can just stay between him and the basket and use their extra bulk to keep him from the rim. I don't expect him to be the 2nd coming of Roy, but just would like to see a little more from his offensive arsenal.

3) Hollis is at least 6'8 I would say, but I would say he looks weak for a small forward, much less a power forward. He will definitely fill in over time, but he will get bounced around trying to defend the paint and rebound against muscular or just plain heavy players. Henry Sims is skinny and easier to keep from the rim, but against the Harangodys, Samardo Samuels, and even Rick Jacksons of the world, he will not be able to consistently hold position.

[sleepy]

I just don't see Henry as a center which is why a face up game and the drive and dish seems to be enough. Greg or Julian(if he can make is improved athleticism to an advantage and start banging down low for us now) are going to be the ones with the back to the basket game.
I don't think anyone can expect Henry to develop a strong low post game until the his junior year the earliest because he is just not used to it. He is a great passer who can hit a jump shot at least 10 feet away from the basket so guys will have to guard him. The most important thing is that he is working on it, and not just hanging around the perimeter where he is most comfortable. We don't need him to be a beast down low, just provide a threat to score down low so guys can't just collapse on Greg the whole game. So far he has shown me he can be a threat and as he get more comfortable as a power forward and in games he will provide an even bigger threat. I don't think we can ask much more of Henry this season. He is always going hard and competing. And he is capable of making some highlight moment plays, which are always good for a spark.
Again with his passing and face up game he is really good compliment to Greg and seems to have great chemistry with both Greg and Jason from what I saw last year on the court and during Kenner so far.

[lichoya68]

AGRE AND DISAGREE WITH PHATTY OR WHATEVER HIS NAME IS GOOD REPORT BUT we must start hollis to be good adn must start adn two headed center henry julian to compete if we start jason chris and austin tooo small too small for the big east.. better IF julian and henry continue to improve and show consistancy im going with chris and austin guards with GREAT JASON EQUAL MINUTES WITH THEM BUT SPARK ALA PATIRCK EWING JR. OFF THE BENCH then henry and julian tww headedmonsteeeer center and greg awesome at powere point passing rebbing etec etc at power forward and this years roy in the big east starting at small slinky dangerous forward yup if they can work that out and improve thats what we need see is they can do it go hoyas

[lichoya68]

oops sorry that big east roy this year is .................. mr thompson and it aint jt3 go hoyas

[daytonahoya31]

hoyaphatty,

you commented that centers will be able to use bulk to keep henry from the basket.

That's not true.

Chris will beat guys off the dribble. So will jason. So will greg. So will austin.

All henry has to do is cut to the hoop, receive a pass and finish. He does this well. Very well. He's going to be fine. He's not the main guy in the paint. He'll be the number two guy. He won't be playing at center. He'll be playing at power forward.

Name a power forward in the big east this season who's 6-11 with long arms and athleticism. I can't either. Henry's going to be fine.

P.S. I don't care if he made 15 wide open lay-ups. If you score 30 points and grab 10 rebounds in a game, you're doing something very right. And oh yeah. 15 of those points were against Michael Beasley.

Henry's going to be just fine.