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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 15:25:32 GMT -5
sleepy,
fair point, but I still don't think this is a coaching issue. JTIII has done everything but run out there and play himself. He benched the entire team. He's benched select players. He's developed a bench to the point where people are no longer talking about them as the weakness of the team.
IMO, a few players on this team have not bought into his system this season, and it's killed the entire team. I agree that there's no way a team with this much talent should struggle this badly. But it's clear that greg is the best player on the team, and that Chris is the point guard and people have problems with it.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Feb 7, 2009 15:25:48 GMT -5
its not coaching in terms of x's and o's
in college, coaching involves recruiting, and the recruiting has been the problem with JTIII.
on paper, he looks like a good recruiter.
but honestly, with this current group, he hasn't recruited well at all.
and for all of their so-called talent, and being all-american's, i don't see too many people out there with the heart of champion.
we lack heart. we lack toughness, mentally and physically. and we lack athleticism. any team we face that have these characteristics will and have beaten us.
the attrition with the junior and senior class speaks to a recruiting issue.
the lack of competitive fire and mental toughness speaks to a recruiting issue. you can't coach intangibles. you recruit players who have them.
if we were losing mainly due to inexperience, i wouldn't have a problem.
its the way we are losing. even with our flaws, there needs to be an attitude adjustment with this team. its like its a bunch of zombies out there.
and another thing, Greg Monroe, nice talent and pretty passes, but we need a presence in the paint. we have none. he plays smaller than his listed height. he is another big man who would rather be a SF than a PF/C.
III is in an uphill battle. these are his players. He is trying like hell to get something out of this group. And quite honestly, he is getting the most out of this group. These guys, as a collective unit, aren't good enough.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Feb 7, 2009 15:30:03 GMT -5
Yep, Monroe is the smallest 6'11" player I have ever seen. And, Wright is a PG who has no jumper. We lost a lot with Hibbert and Wallace. Let's face it. Roy could make those nice passes, but he also had a strong presence on both ends. Greg doesnt have that yet. Then again, he is 18-19 years old. He will get stronger and I hope he does that in college.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 15:31:29 GMT -5
hate to agree with way, but he's right...at least on some points, which is better than his usual average. We do have athleticism, but we don't have intagibles, way is dead on right there. we're losing games we have no business losing. and that's stunning
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Madgesdiq
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,434
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Post by Madgesdiq on Feb 7, 2009 15:43:16 GMT -5
I have been quiet on the board for a while . Not long enough.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 15:44:08 GMT -5
lmao at madge.....that was wrong
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 7, 2009 15:45:48 GMT -5
But funny
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 15:48:32 GMT -5
that's why I was LMAO
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Post by strummer8526 on Feb 7, 2009 15:57:02 GMT -5
It comes down to:
1. Monroe not hitting FT's. 2. Wright dicking around with the ball for 8 of the last 10 seconds and then leaving Freeman w/ an impossible shot. 3. Thompson not FORCING these guys to accept his system. Step one to forcing them: SAPP OVER WRIGHT.
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richfame
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,266
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Post by richfame on Feb 7, 2009 16:11:52 GMT -5
Grow up st petersburg...NO WAIT your right only people with more than 100 posts can post and FURTHERMORE only posters that are going to kiss JT3'S or the current hoya starting linueups ASSES!!! Get a clue bro.
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cnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 406
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Post by cnyhoya on Feb 7, 2009 16:24:42 GMT -5
I am an '85 alum, and I have followed the team closely since 1982. This is one of the most talented teams I have ever seen, in terms of raw potential. They have unquestionably underperformed. The performance this tear (so far) has to fall at the feet of the coach. Period. Sorry, but that is how it is in sports.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 16:43:37 GMT -5
you're an 85 alum and can't come up with a handle that doesn't carry the word "Syracuse" in it? That alone should eliminate you from all conversation on this board
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757hoyafan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,002
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Post by 757hoyafan on Feb 7, 2009 16:53:06 GMT -5
Is it possible for one poster to provide a link from one of fellas mentioning the NBA? If not, how come it is always mentioned? Thanks!
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cnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 406
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Post by cnyhoya on Feb 7, 2009 17:08:30 GMT -5
My handle is syracusehoya probably for the same reason yours is daytonhoya. Lets not be petty, Good golly gosh it's just a chat forum.
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FLHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Proud Member of Generation Burton
Posts: 4,544
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Post by FLHoya on Feb 7, 2009 17:10:50 GMT -5
The problem is with all the success he is recruiting far more talented players that are being forced to play a stringent system that takes a year or two to perfect... Does anyone here believe if you rolled the ball out on a blacktop with our roster versus Cincy's roster without coaching, etc, that we would lose to them once or even twice.... Again it all starts at the top... The first sentence is really the crux of the matter. You get the sense that lots of people around here don't like the fact that we aren't seeing immediate results from the "talent" on our roster. This is hardly surprising however...though it may be jarring to watch for a fan base whose recent memory includes two consecutive BE reg. season titles and a Final Four. But not surprising. The great group of players that departed in 2008 went through the same thing in 2004-2005. Jeff Green, Jon Wallace, Roy Hibbert, Tyler Crawford, Darrell Owens, Brandon Bowman, Ashanti Cook...those guys were a NIT QF team and finished 7th of 12 Big East teams. Their biggest quality win was at Pittsburgh in the first BE game of the season...sounds eerily familiar to ours against UConn this year. Against good teams, they were sometimes overmatched--Illinois destroyed them at Verizon--and against bad teams they sometimes shrunk to their opponents' level (at St. John's and Providence 05 = at Seton Hall and Cincinnati 09). The 05 team pulled out a few close wins--at Villanova and against Notre Dame at home (we have one against Memphis this year), but overall they were just sort of getting by and learning how to play together in a new system. The point is...anyone with a historical perspective should know that it does, in fact, take time to learn as a team how to operate under GU's offensive system. Now, I get the sense a lot of fans don't like that, especially after losses like we've had recently. You want immediate results. I just don't think it's likely to happen. Not that this is unique to GU's offense or John Thompson III--and this is critically important to remember. If you lose an experienced roster of players, your performance will suffer the next season...that's just the honest truth. College basketball is littered with examples of this--the two most high profile in recent years being UConn's 2007 team and Florida's 2008 team...both missed the NCAA Tournament after being in the Elite 8 and a double Natl Title winner precisely because of the loss of experienced players. They recruited talent the next year too...but talent alone can't bring you results...it takes time. UConn is #1 again after two-plus seasons of gradual improvement and experience, and Florida will get there in time after a NIT Final Four last year. I'll throw it out there--I think the "coaching" and "Princeton offense" are just convenient excuses for impatient fans who don't want to swallow a bitter pill right now. And...I think the impatience comes from a pretty obvious place. A lot of fans have convinced themselves that Greg Monroe and/or Dajuan Summers will enter the NBA draft after this season. Others seem positive that other players will transfer for various reasons. Still more are concerned that GU hasn't done enough on the recruiting trail to fill gaps on the roster. One or all of these things may turn out to be true. But frankly, I think the bottom line is...we've been in this situation before as a team, and it worked out well in the end. Patience is required here, and somewhere between 2004 and 2009 a lot of Hoya fans have lost theirs.
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Post by daytonahoya31 on Feb 7, 2009 17:17:04 GMT -5
syracuse,
take a joke and recognize sarcasm....and I don't live in Daytona
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cnyhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 406
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Post by cnyhoya on Feb 7, 2009 17:19:36 GMT -5
I was joking too, but whatever. Lets just get back to the main topic
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Post by hbone13 on Feb 7, 2009 17:20:10 GMT -5
Here is my take. Nikita is a foul machine. Clark is a turnover machine. The article in the post today in which Sapp said, "I'm ready to lead." Keep the senior leader on the bench. I think Nakita is a good player, but a defenisve liability. Where was Sapp? It is on everyone today. Sims didn't get enough minutes with the starters to judge. We still should've won. Austin took a play out of Clark's playbook on the end bound thrown out of bounds. I love the team and bleed blue, the talent is there, they just don't gel and the sub pattern won't allow them to, I don't know what to think. I'm tired and we stink right now. Let's go out and prove me wrong.
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hoopsmccan
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,433
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Post by hoopsmccan on Feb 7, 2009 17:46:24 GMT -5
FL - I think you are dead on re: your impatience comment. You may say that it comes from an "obvious place"...but I think its a pretty astute observation. There is a definite undercurrent of fear that we might be seriously screwed if Monroe leaves...I'm afraid to think of this team minus Monroe, plus Hollis. That's a bottom half of the league, fighting for NIT team...again.
hm
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Feb 7, 2009 17:54:08 GMT -5
FL Hoya - let me suggest a slightly different opinion. We all knew we were young this year, and would take some time to mesh. But the one thing about that 04-05 team - they got better as the year went on, and most importantly, they showed that they had some toughness, and that they hated to lose. This team, with the exception of one or two bench players, does not seem to have improved at all since the start of the season, and they do not consistently show the grit that would make the losses more tolerable. The concern that I have about next season - if we aren't improving and showing the will to do whatever it takes this year, what would make us think we will magically change next year?
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