nathanhm
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,041
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Post by nathanhm on Nov 28, 2008 15:27:21 GMT -5
Maybe I'm alone but I feel much better about this team after watching that game. We have a lot of growing left to do, but we came and play with Tenn, showed a lot of things that previous Hoya teams have not been able to do (transition play, forcing turnovers).
Clark & Wattad showed some improvement, Summers seems to have turned a corner, Monroe is going to be a solid, Jessie & Chris are getting more comfortable playing with each other. Freeman is showing more of his midrange game. If we keep improving quickly, we are going to be a team no one wants a part of in March.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 28, 2008 15:28:11 GMT -5
Tenn's 3 possession play, Jesse's lazy in-bounds, Freeman's lazy pass to Omar, and Jesse's 5-second call. That's an 8-12 point swing if we get those rebounds and convert on those possessions. That was terribly terribly frustrating. There's something about III's management of the team that worries me. I don't know what it is, but there's just a bad feeling I'm getting. We have had the same problems for at least two years now. Last year, we never came up with a solution. This year, we have so much more talent, but the same inability to get up to the rim and grab the damn ball.
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dikembe
Century (over 100 posts)
The Real U
Posts: 170
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Post by dikembe on Nov 28, 2008 15:29:22 GMT -5
One thing that puzzles me is the fact that our offensive identity of precision passing, and under control offensive sets seems to have deteriorated into a pass around the perimeter than launch three pointers offense of the past.
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Nov 28, 2008 15:29:51 GMT -5
Tennessee is a more talented team than alot of us were giving them credit for. They are flat out deeper than we are. They've some pretty heralded freshmen that give them ALOT. They get more out of Hopson, Negedu, Tatum, and Woolridge...than we are getting from our young guys
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:30:54 GMT -5
Tenn's 3 possession play, Jesse's lazy in-bounds, Freeman's lazy pass to Omar, and Jesse's 5-second call. That's an 8-12 point swing if we get those rebounds and convert on those possessions. That was terribly terribly frustrating. There's something about III's management of the team that worries me. I don't know what it is, but there's just a bad feeling I'm getting. We have had the same problems for at least two years now. Last year, we never came up with a solution. This year, we have so much more talent, but the same inability to get up to the rim and grab the damn ball. You make no sense (as usual). How do any of the 4 plays you cite have anything to do with JT3's management of the team? You do realize that we have new players coming in each year? They have to make mistakes and learn from them. you do get that concept?
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,901
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Nov 28, 2008 15:33:28 GMT -5
We didn't play badly, but everyone made some boneheaded plays in the last 5 mins and that is all it takes to lose to teams like tenn. We do have an annoying penchant for not being in the right spot to get offensive boards. Wattad can be a great contributor. I like clark too. Sims needs to figure out how he fits in. Sapp played 30 great minutes and a lousy final 10. I thought freeman and summers were ok. Wright too. Monroe needs more touches. Overall we were ok, way better than wsu game but not at full potential. But I'm confident we'll work it all out over the next month.
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tjm62
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 855
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Post by tjm62 on Nov 28, 2008 15:35:14 GMT -5
relax kchoya, people have every right to vent frustration after a frustrating game.
Sports fans are always prone to hyperbole, we'll all settle down soon.
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Post by gburyhoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:36:27 GMT -5
kchoya I did mention positives out of this game. However it should have been a "W" especially when Chism was out of the game for a good 12 minutes of the second half. We had a chance to go up double digits but that didn't happen and then once again our rebounding was basically none existant down the stretch. Hopefully we can regroup and defeat either Gonzaga or Maryland in the third place game.
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Post by RockawayHoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:36:45 GMT -5
Tatum has been matched up with by Omar... he may have made some shots but he is NOT ready to play the amount of minutes he has on the defensive end. Jeremiah Rivers he is not. This was the key to the game. III fell in love with a few early threes by Omar and left him in WAY too long. Go back to the Tatum highlight (for POG) and you'll see Omar either being late on a rotation or a missed defensive assignment on every play. You've got to give Tatum some form of credit though; a bunch of his threes were well behind the arc. Tennessee shot lights out against us from 3 to beat us, and that's just going to happen sometimes against a good team. There were a few positives for this game: for one, the young guys saw what top-notch pressure is like at the college level for the first time, so they will realize that if they don't do a better job taking care of the ball, we will lose. Period. This was a great learning experience for them, and will serve them well in conference play as well as whoever we get in the next game. Offensively, I think we did really well. Ran the break about as well as I can ever remember a Hoya team doing so (although there's still room for improvement). Dajuan finally figured out that attacking the basket is probably a better option for him than hoisting up contested 3's. And Greg kept on being just Greg. I was surprised that Jessie had such a poor game (by his standards). A lot of bad decisions by him late in the game that were uncharacteristic of his play over the past few years (the spin dribble in the paint and the 5 second call stood out for me). Len Elmore was ridiculous. When did he decide to go from cautiously complimentary about the Hoyas to full out "root against us openly on air" mode? Every time Tennessee drew a foul on us, it was a good job by them. Every time we drew a foul on Tennessee, we "did a great job selling it to the refs." Unfreakingbelievable. One good game by the Twerps in the last 3-4 years and now this guy wants to go back to being a homer. Don't forget this team is young and will have its share of growing pains. This was just one of them, but I'm happy that they competed, didn't back down (Wright in the face of Tyler Smith), and for the most part played well enough to win the game if Tatum just didn't become unconscious in the final 10-12 minutes shooting the ball.
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3xhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,171
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Post by 3xhoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:36:46 GMT -5
I am sorry you took my post in a negative way KC. I just pointed out the things I saw as caused our eventual loss as almost everyone else on the board has. Also, the only player I mentioned was Jessie and he is our leader and I, along with everyone else, expect more from him than turning the ball over due to lack of concentration. This was a great learning experience. Someone else already pointed this out, but the announcers said the on the court atmosphere was like a tournament game. That experience will be invaluable for those players you mentioned. This team has a ton of potential and it will be great watching them develop over the season. I don't understand why long term posters on this board always feel the need to put down newer posters. It is a common way for board members to take out their frustration on others and is totally unnecessary.
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,901
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Nov 28, 2008 15:37:38 GMT -5
We weren't that bad except for final 5 mins. We are young and growing. Only inexcusable play was really Sapp who as a senior can't mentally check out like he seemed to do today when we needed him most.
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by kchoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:38:54 GMT -5
Everyone's entitled to an opinion. I just find it interesting when a slew of people with 30 posts decide to come on jump on the team during a loss after not posting for six months.
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hoya95
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,445
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Post by hoya95 on Nov 28, 2008 15:39:51 GMT -5
This game reminded me a lot of the Memphis game last year. Got involved in way too much of a track meet and eventually they ran right past us. Obviously there is a lot of rebuilding to do, but for the first time in a while it's probably more on the defensive side. We're going to play a lot of big, athletic teams this year. And it looks like a very scary proposition right now.
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Post by gburyhoya on Nov 28, 2008 15:40:48 GMT -5
Hopefully we can build from this and defeat Memphis in a few weeks. One thing for sure is they won't make as many FTs as Tennessee did today.
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GUJook97
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,445
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Post by GUJook97 on Nov 28, 2008 15:45:44 GMT -5
Yeah, it reminded me of Memphis, too, except I really thought we played better this year, which is a great sign. Monroe has no fear and that is just great to see. I just worry about our depth, but I guess everyone outside of a few elite teams need to worry about that. All and all, I think we are further along than I expected, especially Monroe.
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Post by strummer8526 on Nov 28, 2008 15:44:31 GMT -5
Tenn's 3 possession play, Jesse's lazy in-bounds, Freeman's lazy pass to Omar, and Jesse's 5-second call. That's an 8-12 point swing if we get those rebounds and convert on those possessions. That was terribly terribly frustrating. There's something about III's management of the team that worries me. I don't know what it is, but there's just a bad feeling I'm getting. We have had the same problems for at least two years now. Last year, we never came up with a solution. This year, we have so much more talent, but the same inability to get up to the rim and grab the damn ball. You make no sense (as usual). How do any of the 4 plays you cite have anything to do with JT3's management of the team? You do realize that we have new players coming in each year? They have to make mistakes and learn from them. you do get that concept? How is it "usual" that I don't make sense? You may disagree, but that doesn't mean it "doesn't make sense." And I've done plenty of posting in the last 6 months. Let's not get into a Editeding match over something stupid like that. As for my actual post, TJM is right. I'm frustrated and maybe combined two separate points. Three of those plays had nothing to do w/ rebounds. One of them had everything to do with rebounds. But maybe the rebounding point should have been separate. Anyway, what I said is pretty much being hashed out in another thread anyway: whether III emphasizes rebounding and to what degree. I'm starting to wonder if the answer is "not enough." Or maybe it comes down to the players. Either way, it's frustrating to watch. And yes, I get the concept that each season involves new players. That's exactly why if we face the same problems year after year, it seems to reflect on coaching, not on players."you do get that concept?"
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Post by HoyaAtHeart on Nov 28, 2008 15:47:26 GMT -5
Also, am I wrong that I still fail to recognize a clear cut leader on this team? For example, you know Tyler Smith is Tennessee's guy without question. Who is that player for us?
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ceb8
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 144
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Post by ceb8 on Nov 28, 2008 15:47:42 GMT -5
Kc,
I don't see how I dumped on the team or why you even feel the need to single out people. I guess I am not allowed to mention any negatives about this game today. Or do I simply have to include a positive when I post a negative comment on a game. Seriously, relax we know this team has a lot of maturing to do and I beg your pardon if I didn't make that clear in my post.
I never dumped on any of the new guys as I really was just trying to state how I was upset that some of our vets (I include Austin) were making some really silly turnovers which we know they shouldn't make.
And about your PC remark I only joined in Sept I am not sure how many posts you think I should make before I am allowed to make a simple observation on the team
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,049
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Post by dense on Nov 28, 2008 15:46:51 GMT -5
lol, I'm overall okay with what happened. It will get better, I understand people are frustrated but we werent going undefeated and we lost in close game to the SEC #1 team.
also those threes by Tatum were not Omar's fault. He was helpside both times, rotated out and got a hand in the dudes face both times. and he made the shot, i assume its Dajuan's fault Tatum hit the bank one too. Sometimes dudes hit shots. I can live with what happened in terms of Tatum. That's fine, sometimes dudes just hit big shots. The other team has players too.
I thought we lost a game we should have won, but that happened last year a few times too. the turnovers were bad and we fell apart but im glad we kept responding when we cold have fallen out of that game several times. I really love this team and think we have unlimited potential.
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sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
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Post by sleepy on Nov 28, 2008 15:51:25 GMT -5
This game reminded me a lot of the Memphis game last year. Got involved in way too much of a track meet and eventually they ran right past us. Obviously there is a lot of rebuilding to do, but for the first time in a while it's probably more on the defensive side. We're going to play a lot of big, athletic teams this year. And it looks like a very scary proposition right now. This game was really nothing like the Memphis game last year. We had control of this game for the most part, where in the Memphis game we never really had any control and were just staying in it until they went up by 20 at one point I think. This game was a lot more like the Duke game from 06-07, imo, where we had control most of the game, but came up short the last 5 minutes. It happens with young teams, we will only get better, and even if we didn't improve at all from now until March, we would still probably make the NCAA tournament and could probaby even win a game or two. Thats a lot better than I expected from this team in November.
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