Palin is the choice

[jerseyhoya34]

The rumors around Palin's family continue to swirl today, and the McCain campaign has confirmed in a statement that Palin's 16 year old daughter is pregnant and will have a shotgun wedding. It will be interesting to see if religious voters will react to this.

Today is a perfect day for the campaign to dump this news. It is only a matter of time before other things come out.

On edit: Coverage here: thepage.time.com/2008/09/01/mccain-campaign-bristol-palin-is-pregnant/

[HoyaNyr320]

I wonder if this experience has changed Governor Palin's view on abstinence-only sex education.

Seriously though- this is like a rerun from a bad 7th Heaven episode- with the mother and daughter going through pregnancy at the same time. Maureen Dowd's editorial in the New York Times is even more prescient now:
www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/opinion/31dowd.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin

When can we expect the movie's premier.... on the Lifetime Network?

[hoyaboy1]

Bristol looks to be pretty hot

[GIGAFAN99]

I'd say no effect here. It's not about her directly and nobody's doing anything wrong here. The kid screwed up and the family is handling it exactly as you'd think she would.

In blogland, where the extreme 5% on either side must commit character assassination whenever presented, she'll be skewered as a hypocrite.

This might not even be a bad time for Obama to highlight that choice is choice and not "pro-abortion" by mentioning something just off hand. Imagine if he says "My mother made the same choice and I'm thankful she did. And I hope Governor Palin's daughter can draw strength from her family as they deal with this private matter." How cool would that be of him?

[The Stig]

Which begs the question: Should a mother of 5, including a child with Down's Syndrome and a pregnant child, have better things to do than a political campaign?

It reminds me of John Edwards refusing to put his political aspirations aside when his wife had cancer. If "family values" means putting family first, then these folks aren't exactly sterling examples of it.

[strummer8526]

Sept 1, 2008 12:15:51 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

I'd say no effect here. It's not about her directly and nobody's doing anything wrong here. The kid screwed up and the family is handling it exactly as you'd think she would.

In blogland, where the extreme 5% on either side must commit character assassination whenever presented, she'll be skewered as a hypocrite.

This might not even be a bad time for Obama to highlight that choice is choice and not "pro-abortion" by mentioning something just off hand. Imagine if he says "My mother made the same choice and I'm thankful she did. And I hope Governor Palin's daughter can draw strength from her family as they deal with this private matter." How cool would that be of him?

It would be very cool. I don't think anyone would say that Obama should call for her to abort the child if she doesn't want to.

As I think more about it, there are two things I find important here: (1) Palin may not be mother of the year. (Stig, I couldn't exactly think of what I am trying to say by questioning her motherhood/values, but you said it perfectly.) More importantly, (2) McCain's first major decision that we've seen him make as an executive leader was selection of a woman who I don't think he would have chosen if he had all the facts. I highly doubt that he would have picked her if he knew that this story was out there. So what does that say about his advisers, his vetting process, and his judgment?

[GIGAFAN99]

Sept 1, 2008 12:23:45 GMT -5 strummer8526 said:

Sept 1, 2008 12:15:51 GMT -5 GIGAFAN99 said:

I'd say no effect here. It's not about her directly and nobody's doing anything wrong here. The kid screwed up and the family is handling it exactly as you'd think she would.

In blogland, where the extreme 5% on either side must commit character assassination whenever presented, she'll be skewered as a hypocrite.

This might not even be a bad time for Obama to highlight that choice is choice and not "pro-abortion" by mentioning something just off hand. Imagine if he says "My mother made the same choice and I'm thankful she did. And I hope Governor Palin's daughter can draw strength from her family as they deal with this private matter." How cool would that be of him?

It would be very cool. I don't think anyone would say that Obama should call for her to abort the child if she doesn't want to.

As I think more about it, there are two things I find important here: (1) Palin may not be mother of the year. (Stig, I couldn't exactly think of what I am trying to say by questioning her motherhood/values, but you said it perfectly.) More importantly, (2) McCain's first major decision that we've seen him make as an executive leader was selection of a woman who I don't think he would have chosen if he had all the facts. I highly doubt that he would have picked her if he knew that this story was out there. So what does that say about his advisers, his vetting process, and his judgment?

I think it says "That's a stretch."

Obama's been on the road 2 years now. Would you like McCain to call him "another black absentee father?" That would be pretty heinous when you see it from the other side I'd think. That's the job. They all have families and they all do it this way. If you attack her for it, you look like you're telling her to "go back to the kitchen where she belongs."

Also, why would her daughter's pregnancy exclude her from the VP slot? How do you exactly make that case? "Can you believe John McCain selected someone whose daughter is pregnant?"

So after you've just spent months building a case of judgment based on foreign policy and attempting to dispel the idea you're a "fluff" candidate, you call him on...his VP's daughter's pregnancy? Eh, no thanks. Leave that to Olbermann and his 14 viewers who already are voting for Obama to play with.

[Boz]

McCain did know about the pregnancy before he made his selection, even though the rest of us didn't.

As for the question of whether or not she should be running for VP or serving as governor, instead of taking care of her child with special needs, well, that's fine for a message board, but Democrats should be pretty wary of going down that road. Dana Bash already ripped John Roberts a new one on that issue the other day. Palin will draw a lot of women on her own, not real partisans, but she will help close the gap. If the media starts making too much of that, I think women will be outraged and she'll pull a lot more in who think Hillary was also treated unfairly.

[The Stig]

Yeah, I certainly don't expect Democrats to use that attack on her in official circles. But I imagine that it'll be something on people's minds.

[jerseyhoya34]

Sept 1, 2008 12:42:39 GMT -5 Boz said:

McCain did know about the pregnancy before he made his selection, even though the rest of us didn't.

As for the question of whether or not she should be running for VP or serving as governor, instead of taking care of her child with special needs, well, that's fine for a message board, but Democrats should be pretty wary of going down that road. Dana Bash already ripped John Roberts a new one on that issue the other day. Palin will draw a lot of women on her own, not real partisans, but she will help close the gap. If the media starts making too much of that, I think women will be outraged and she'll pull a lot more in who think Hillary was also treated unfairly.

The polls, for whatever they're worth, do not bear this out yet. The real value of a pick is how it plays in battleground states Attracting Hillary voters in blue states, where she was most successful, simply does nothing for McCain.

The other news item today is that Todd Palin has a DUI record. Taken together with the other news of the day, I get the picture of a family that might do better in Alaska than the Vice President's mansion.

I am not sure that McCain knew. His spokesperson may just be covering his butt. Sarah Palin's own spokerperson did not know about it.

[Boz]

Sept 1, 2008 12:51:15 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

Sept 1, 2008 12:42:39 GMT -5 Boz said:

McCain did know about the pregnancy before he made his selection, even though the rest of us didn't.

As for the question of whether or not she should be running for VP or serving as governor, instead of taking care of her child with special needs, well, that's fine for a message board, but Democrats should be pretty wary of going down that road. Dana Bash already ripped John Roberts a new one on that issue the other day. Palin will draw a lot of women on her own, not real partisans, but she will help close the gap. If the media starts making too much of that, I think women will be outraged and she'll pull a lot more in who think Hillary was also treated unfairly.

The polls, for whatever they're worth, do not bear this out yet. The real value of a pick is how it plays in battleground states Attracting Hillary voters in blue states, where she was most successful, simply does nothing for McCain.

The other news item today is that Todd Palin has a DUI record. Taken together with the other news of the day, I get the picture of a family that might do better in Alaska than the Vice President's mansion.

I am not sure that McCain knew. His spokesperson may just be covering his butt. Sarah Palin's own spokerperson did not know about it.

A DUI in 1986, when he was 22 years old? Really?

I think Democrats might want to think twice before opening a discussion about people behaving badly in their youth.

[AustinHoya03]

Watched some late night C-SPAN yesterday during a bout of insomnia -- Palin is not a polished speaker at all, but damn is she folksy. And she seems genuine in her beliefs. IMO, she will win the McCain campaign big points in the "ticket I'd most like to have a beer with" category.

I also learned Palin does a great GWB impersonation when pronouncing the word "nuclear." That comes close to losing my vote right there.

Very interesting to see the left-wingers in mega-attack mode over Palin. If the Governor of Alaska had faked a pregnancy, I'm pretty sure the Anchorage Daily News would be all over it. It may come as a shock to some, but there are competent newspapermen in a "weirdo" state where people actually shoot local animals for food every winter. As for her husband having a DUI record, I think that's grasping at straws -- Todd Palin is not on the ticket, and approximately 1.5M Americans are charged with DUI every year in any event. (Not saying DUI is okay, just saying a lot of people make the same mistake.)

The argument over which party treats women better is silly: there's recent evidence both parties treat women like dirt or like idiots. For the Ds, see attacking Palin with the female reproductive system. For the Rs, see Debra:



PS: Food across the board in Alaska kicks ass, including the pizza. The Moose's Tooth in Anchorage and Fat Olive's in Homer serve particularly tasty pies.

[PushyGuyFanClub]

I get the picture of a family that might do better in Alaska than the Vice President's mansion.
----
I agree. These sound like the kind of people that would let their daughters throw keg parties at the White House pool, sneak cigarettes next to kitchen, not punish their son for being caught smoking pot after a state dinner, and worst of all, have an intern perform oral sex on them in the Oval Office.

[PushyGuyFanClub]

Food across the board in Alaska kicks ass, including the pizza
-----
I stand corrected. Looks solid: www.moosestooth.net/#

[TC]

Sept 1, 2008 13:22:04 GMT -5 AustinHoya03 said:

Very interesting to see the left-wingers in mega-attack mode over Palin. If the Governor of Alaska had faked a pregnancy, I'm pretty sure the Anchorage Daily News would be all over it. It may come as a shock to some, but there are competent newspapermen in a "weirdo" state where people actually shoot local animals for food every winter.

The news media laser of a national election or even national exposure is COMPLETELY different from local media. The national press has already reported more dirt on Palin in the last week (husband's DWI, daughter's pregnancy) than the Anchorage Daily News has over the past year. I read the Anchorage Daily News almost every week (I like pictures of bears and mooses). Plus ADN has been pretty much focused on the Ted Stevens thing.

I find this story distasteful too, but guess what, that's what our country's news and blogger media is like, whether it be the National Enquirer, the Drudge Report, or Daily Kos. If Republicans don't want these stories coming out, than vet the candidates better. The one thing I know is that they can't Harriet Miers her - removing the first female VP choice of the Republican party would be an epic disaster.

[sead43]

just a thought: does anyone see a hint (or more) of sexism in a lot of the comments both in the media coverage of Palin and in this thread? with regard to the whole "experience" question, would we be as outraged at the prospect of a male governor of a U.S. state (even Alaska) becoming Vice President as we are at the “inexperienced” Sarah Palin becoming VP? On the family issues, would we be questioning Todd Palin's merits as a father if he were running with an autistic baby and a pregnant daughter at home as much as we are Sarah's as a mother?

i'm not one to usually be too sensitive or worry too much about being "PC", and believe me i've found myself having similar thoughts to a lot of what's been said about her. but when you step back and think about it, is it possible that we haven't come as far as we think we have in accepting a female leader, despite our patting ourselves on the back just because she's been nominated?

[GIGAFAN99]

blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html

Cool indeed.

Oh and as far as how "this family" sounds, they're the kind that used to vote Democrat. Then the party forgot about them. Wonder why the white working class finds it difficult to vote Democrat even after 8 years of Bush?

[strummer8526]

Sept 1, 2008 14:30:19 GMT -5 sead43 said:

just a thought: does anyone see a hint (or more) of sexism in a lot of the comments both in the media coverage of Palin and in this thread? with regard to the whole "experience" question, would we be as outraged at the prospect of a male governor of a U.S. state (even Alaska) becoming Vice President as we are at the “inexperienced” Sarah Palin becoming VP? On the family issues, would we be questioning Todd Palin's merits as a father if he were running with an autistic baby and a pregnant daughter at home as much as we are Sarah's as a mother?

i'm not one to usually be too sensitive or worry too much about being "PC", and believe me i've found myself having similar thoughts to a lot of what's been said about her. but when you step back and think about it, is it possible that we haven't come as far as we think we have in accepting a female leader, despite our patting ourselves on the back just because she's been nominated?

(1) Obviously we would have the same "experience" outrage if she was a male. We've been talking about a 4-year U.S. Senator in exactly the same terms as far as experience! If Barack gets the "experience" treatment, and Palin gets the "experience" treatment, then I don't think you can say that it is AT ALL related to gender. That's nonsense.

(2) The second point, I think you may be a bit more correct. For better or worse, mothers are seen as more connected to the raising of children. Admittedly, I grew up w/ a stay-at-home mom, and I'm not sure how I might have been impacted by being raised in a different environment. I'm not saying that when I have kids, I want their mother to stay home at all (I actually believe in more equal responsibility between parents, but that's certainly nowhere on my mind now), but I do appreciate the value of parents that are very close to their children's lives on a daily basis. Especially when it is a daughter who gets pregnant, people are going to at least consider where her mother fit in the picture. I also think the gender of the child involved has an impact here. If her son had impregnated another girl or got arrested for some kind of violence, we'd be looking at the father more so than the mother.

[kchoya]

Sept 1, 2008 12:51:15 GMT -5 @jerseyhoya34 said:

The other news item today is that Todd Palin has a DUI record. Taken together with the other news of the day, I get the picture of a family that might do better in Alaska than the Vice President's mansion.

You're right. Much better to have someone who admitted to using cocaine in the White House than the spouse of the VP with 20+ year-old DUI (that old, right?).

[kchoya]

Sept 1, 2008 12:20:25 GMT -5 The Stig said:

Which begs the question: Should a mother of 5, including a child with Down's Syndrome and a pregnant child, have better things to do than a political campaign?

You're not a woman, so maybe you can be excused on this point. But a lot of women look up to someone like Palin who can balance family and a job. I know my wife is very impressed by what she's learning about her so far. (Disclaimer, my wife is a wacko from Montana, one of those western states where they hunt and like thinks like moose stew, so her view doesn't really count).