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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 29, 2008 14:24:54 GMT -5
I agree with everything else, but you may want to correct this in that she was governor of Alaska, which even without Mercator projection is huge. |
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Bando
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Post by Bando on Aug 29, 2008 14:26:49 GMT -5
I agree with everything else, but you may want to correct this in that she was governor of Alaska, which even without Mercator projection is huge. I'm sure meant tiny in terms of population. Alaska has a population smaller than most mid-sized American cities. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Aug 29, 2008 14:46:04 GMT -5
And roughly that of Delaware.
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Boz
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Post by Boz on Aug 29, 2008 15:14:10 GMT -5
This choice is absurd. It is a desperation move with nothing to support it whatsoever. A crass political move to shore up the ultra right left wing conservative liberal base. Can anyone on this board actually justify this as someone who is remotely qualified to be president? Or to help manage the country in any way? Sounds a lot like a candidate I know...... Oh, I couldn't resist. Had to get in one last dig today. Happy (miserable, rainy) weekend, everyone! Congratulations to Sarah Palin! Should be an exciting campaign. (on a side note, basketball season can't get here soon enough; then, instead of arguing with each other, we can all join together........ .........to pound on eighties and mrsixer).  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2008 15:34:20 GMT -5
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Aug 29, 2008 15:47:48 GMT -5
Cheney may have changed it, but I tend to side with John Nance Gardner on the true value of the Vice Presidency. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 29, 2008 15:52:42 GMT -5
This choice is absurd. It is a desperation move with nothing to support it whatsoever. A crass political move to shore up the ultra right wing conservative base. Can anyone on this board actually justify this as someone who is remotely qualified to be president? Or to help manage the country in any way? As for the CEO argument, being a part time mayor of a town of 5,000 and a gov for a year and a half of a tiny state does not in any way qualify someone for the Presidency of the USA. And we all know this. I wouldn't argue with you directly. The problem is that all such an argument does, is focus attention on one key weakness in Obama. If I remember correctly, he had been a US Senator for 140 days when he announced his candidacy for President of the USA. In all honesty, if you compare Obama and Palin from an experience standpoint, I would have to consider it a wash. But Obama is the Presidential candidat, not the VP. So if anything, that would tilt a slight advantage to McCain. I think that it would be fairly reasonable to consider McCain and Biden's experience to be roughly a wash. McCain has the military background on his side for sure, especially with his POW-MIA history, but Biden can offset that with his advantage in international politics. The bottom line is that if you get into experience, all it can do is hurt Obama. |
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hifigator
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Post by hifigator on Aug 29, 2008 16:00:26 GMT -5
As to the issue of Obama's plan, we can give that a dedicated thread where it might be more appropriate. I certainly don't want to be accused of clutter. But one quick note: his plan is to get rid of the capital gains tax and to consider capital gains as income in the year that you realize the gains. Yes, he does have a part of his plan to offer back capital gains incentives for certain new and/or expanding small businesses. To consider this an advantage is absurd. Think of it as someone taxing everything that you already have in your fridge. Then offering a tax credit to certain people for a portion of what they have in their fridge. Everyone is worse off, some just not quite as badly. That is bogus reasoning.
I don't want to clutter by getting into his income tax code, but if you really think that it only raises taxes on those over 200K of income, I have a bridge that I would like to sell you.
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Aug 29, 2008 16:05:31 GMT -5
Stupid Georgetown, we take politics way too seriously here.
I'll translate this 5 page thread
[Republican Supporter]: Great move, we're going to win!
[Democrat Supporter]: No way, you suck!
[Republican] Nuh uh! You suck!
[Dem]: No, we're cool, not like you losers
[Hif] Florida Rules!
and so on.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2008 16:16:08 GMT -5
All this talk about her "experience" is a joke. Alaska has a population roughly equivalent to that of the District of Columbia. If Obama had tabbed Adrian Fenty (who's been Mayor of DC for as long as Palin's been Governor) as his VP, I'm guessing no one would be fired up about his experience. And being Mayor of a town of less than 10,000 is a nice thing to have on your resume, but not exactly awe-inspiring.
That aside: she checks a lot of boxes for McCain, and I think it's a bold move. Not bold-bordering-on-genius, but not bold-bordering-on-desperate either. Just bold. For now.
You could call it a Desperation Move/Hail Mary in that it's an all-or-nothing choice. In 3 years, she's gone from tiny town mayor to Governor of the country's least populous state, to potential VP. To steal a phrase from another part of Hoyatalk, she's on a Whole 'Nother Level now. If she falters, it could be disastrous for McCain...but if she shines, it could be a completely different story.
It's like the NBA draft, and she's the high-school kid making the leap...I'm surprised Jay Bilas hasn't chimed in yet on her length and tremendous upside potential.
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HealyHoya
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Post by HealyHoya on Aug 29, 2008 16:48:35 GMT -5
How about this: Can we agree that Palin makes for a far better looking woman than Biden?
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vcjack
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Post by vcjack on Aug 29, 2008 16:54:26 GMT -5
How about this: Can we agree that Palin makes for a far better looking woman than Biden? She is hot... But Obama is a whitesox fan so I don't know which supperficial judgement to use when I cast my pointless vote! |
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thornski
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Post by thornski on Aug 29, 2008 17:31:23 GMT -5
As Pat Buchanan said himself on MSNBC, this may be the riskiest VP pick in a very very very long time (If not ever). If he wanted to court women, why not pick someone like Kay Bailey Hutchison - so she's not the darling of the religous right, but has a hell of a lot more experience than Palin.
So posters here say that Obama doesn't have any reason to attack Palin on lack of experience. I don't think Obama was ever going to do that (if he's smart about it). He always wanted 2008 to be a policy/change based election. The main hope McCain had was to make 2008 about the fact that Obama wasn't ready to be President. That is what he said the entire campaign so far.
And then he hand-picks someone who has the experience of Palin? BWAHHH? Again, not saying Obama should attack the ticket on that (he shouldn't). But McCain has just ruined his single most effective argument for Obama not being elected (lack of experience).
I think if McCain wants 2008 to be a policy/issues election as opposed to experience, Dems will welcome that with open arms.
Still puzzled as to why he didn't pick really any other major GOP woman politician if he didn't want to take advantage of possible bitter Hillary voters.
EDIT: Whoever earlier in the thread wanted to argue that Palin had more experience than Biden is pretty laughable. Really? So technically she has "executive" experience. I didn't know that being governor of the 47th most populous state for 1.5 years (and being mayor of the grand metropolis of Wasilla, AK previously) trumped having 35 years in the Senate and having many of those years be as Chairman/Ranking Member of Foreign Relations & Judiciary).
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Post by sleepyjackson21 on Aug 29, 2008 17:34:22 GMT -5
VCjack, yes, Obama ia a diehard White Sox fan and not afraid to call out Cubs fans. Major bonus points there. Plus, i have to think that if he was in the White House he would root for the Hoyas. His brother in law is Craig Robinson who is a former Princeton hooper and also friend of JT3.
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EasyEd
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Post by EasyEd on Aug 29, 2008 18:46:15 GMT -5
"So posters here say that Obama doesn't have any reason to attack Palin on lack of experience. I don't think Obama was ever going to do that (if he's smart about it)."
Wrong! The first ad from the Obama camp was an attack at Palin's experience, saying she was only the mayor of a small Alaskan town.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 29, 2008 22:24:06 GMT -5
Palin has no experience at a national level and barely any at any level.
Will some of the disaffected Hillary supporters vote for her? McCain had better hope so.
More likely, this will backfire with anyone who is not already a Republican.
It is a blatant political ploy. No one could reasonably defend this as good for the country.
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 29, 2008 22:55:54 GMT -5
Charles Krauthammer -- ExcerptsMcCain had been steadily gaining on Obama (before the inevitable convention bounce) and had the race in a dead heat in a year in which the generic Democrat is running ten points ahead of the generic Republican. He had succeeded in making this a referendum on Obama. The devastating line of attack was, "Is he ready to lead?"
The Palin selection completely undercuts the argument about Obama's inexperience and readiness to lead -- on the theory that because Palin is a maverick and a corruption fighter, she bolsters McCain's claim to be the reformer in this campaign.
The McCain campaign is reveling in the fact that Palin is a game changer. But why a game changer when you’ve been gaining? To gratuitously undercut the remarkably successful "Is he ready to lead" line of attack seems near suicidal.
voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/08/the_palin_puzzle.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Aug 30, 2008 1:12:35 GMT -5
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Post by jerseyhoya34 on Aug 30, 2008 2:06:36 GMT -5
I agree with Krauthammer and promise never to do it again. The Palin pick carries with it a subliminal message that the McCain campaign does not like where it is right now in the campaign, even with this supposed McCain bump before the Dem Convention. I think it was overstated given that Obama's campaign was not doing much of anything for the month of August. So, I think McCain's bump was very soft, and it has more than disappeared. Obama has been ahead ever since he clinched the nomination, with a few blips here in there. When the dust settles, McCain knows he is behind.
I think the pick is dangerous. He has basically picked her sight unseen. The battlegrounds are in the Rockies, mid-Atlantic, and midwest, not in the Bering Straits with the "Time Bandit." I don't think anyone can predict how these states will respond to an Alaskan, as most folks in these states have never met one.
McCain basically conceded the VP debate. It looks like he figured Biden would win anyway, so he wants to be able to play the victim card.
When you peel the veneer off this one, it looks like a dangerous pick.
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Post by strummer8526 on Aug 30, 2008 6:46:32 GMT -5
I think the pick is dangerous. He has basically picked her sight unseen. The battlegrounds are in the Rockies, mid-Atlantic, and midwest, not in the Bering Straits with the "Time Bandit." I don't think anyone can predict how these states will respond to an Alaskan, as most folks in these states have never met one. He's going after the ever important "Captain Sig" vote. I also agree with Krauthammer, who I met once, and he was a massive D-Bag. Still, he's right: the "ready to lead" argument is as good as conceded. |
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